The Tinkerer -- newb-friendly Wizard/Rogue

[Ultrazen]

I always start my wiz builds out with 14 base str, for a couple of reasons.

1. You're warforged and it's cheap.

2. Every mob and their brother cast some kind of str debuff, even early game, and it's annoying as heck to be constantly debuffed and more or less rooted in place if you're carrying any loot, and it's a while before you find a decent enough str item to make up for an 8 starting str.

3. At almost all stages of the game throwing on masters touch and beating on things with a 2h weapon is a viable, and in some cases better method of mana free damage. This is especially true the first 6 levels or so. By far the easiest way to level a new wizard is to get a good 2 hand and go beat on stuff. A 14 base str will give you enough to hit to remain viable. It also remains handy for beating on stuff in a firewall, depending on what mobs you're beating on. Some of the harder hitting stuff is a no no, but with warforged damage reduction, blur, haste, displacement, etc, there are a lot of trash mobs you can just stand in a firewall and beat on with a 2 hander. There are actually some interesting strategies you can pull of with intimidate, but that's a different build :P

[grood]

yeah i find it is pretty tight trying to get through dungeons at low lvls. I can just manage on normal. Anything more than that and i'm sucking up sp much to quick. The only thing with the 14 str is i'd loose a bit of my will saves and much like thanimal missing on a save drives me nuts. However if u wanted to be more soloable that 14str option might not be a bad idea. Currently i'm just satisfied with being able to DD, OL, and Search for stuff oh and also buff the party any dmg i do for them they are lucky. :P This is of course pre firewall.

On a side note i am pretty new to the game so not sure if saves get better later on.

[mtrixis]

Is it possible to run this build as a non WF? I cannot stand playing them, but I've been looking around for a Wizard build to try, as I'm finding melee in this game to be pretty uninteresting.

[OldAquarian]

Is it possible to run this build as a non WF? I cannot stand playing them, but I've been looking around for a Wizard build to try, as I'm finding melee in this game to be pretty uninteresting.

It would be really hard to walk away from self healing, but if you run with a good healer - you could consider Drow for the higher INT or human for the feat/skills - but then definately take UMD over spot

[GhoulsTouch]

I have seen rogue wizards who never got past level 2 in rogue do traps for their level to my amazement. Made me curious on how to make a good Jack of all trades rogue. Maybe up charisma and mix in like 5/ FS and 5/ SORC Levels and be a total bluff who has no real need to waste on UMD at all.

[unbongwah]

Is it possible to run this build as a non WF?

It's possible for any race to be a rogue / wizard; but giving up WF immunities & self-healing via repair spells is a pretty hefty drawback. Did you have a race in mind?

[mtrixis]

It's possible for any race to be a rogue / wizard; but giving up WF immunities & self-healing via repair spells is a pretty hefty drawback. Did you have a race in mind?

Not explicitly, but likely human or elf, I just find WF extremely unappealing aesthetically. I'm not a roleplayer or anything, I just don't enjoy playing them

I'm guessing it'd change the starting stats and the choice of enhancements? I'm still new to the game, so tinkering (hah) with builds is outside my experience.

[Kyrn]

Not explicitly, but likely human or elf, I just find WF extremely unappealing aesthetically. I'm not a roleplayer or anything, I just don't enjoy playing them

I'm guessing it'd change the starting stats and the choice of enhancements? I'm still new to the game, so tinkering (hah) with builds is outside my experience.

1) You might consider halflings to try and get the dragonmark feats, though it requires a substantial investment in feats.
2) Regardless of build, any caster wizard build should have max int, and reasonably high con: preferably 16 and above, though 14 might be taken instead for negative con races (elf/drow).
3) Str is a popular choice for the rest of the statpoints to prevent enfeeble from rendering you useless and allow 2-h leveling at lower levels. Cha is also considered for boosting UMD, and Wis for boosting will saves.
4) Dex is always a dump stat, since you are likely not going to have any reasonable AC, probably won't go twf, and reflexes can be handled by the Insightful Reflexes feat.
5) If you plan any offensive spellcasting, doing splashes is generally inadvisable because offensive DC is heavily dependant on the number of class levels you have. The wiz/rogue is one of the very few exceptions because of the great synergy between them: Disable Device uses int bonuses, the high int of wizards allows maxing the multiple skills a trapmonkey uses, Insightful Reflexes allows a good amount of reflex to make evasion worthwhile.

[honkuimushi]

I have seen rogue wizards who never got past level 2 in rogue do traps for their level to my amazement. Made me curious on how to make a good Jack of all trades rogue. Maybe up charisma and mix in like 5/ FS and 5/ SORC Levels and be a total bluff who has no real need to waste on UMD at all.

Doing something like this is almost always a Bad Idea. The spells you'd get from 5 levels of FS will be of only moderate use at higher levels and would cost you your 8th and 9th level spells and more slots for higher spell levels. You would get wand use, but that comes with a single level of a class with healing spells on it's spell list.

Sorcerer is even worse since they have the exact same spell list as the Wizard. All you do is trade high level spells for a few more low level spells at a low caster level.

One of the benefits of being WF is that you can heal yourself with spells, wands and scrolls without using UMD as a Wizard. If you went with another race, then UMD is more important. If you absolutely must add another class, a single level of Ranger or Bard would give you another level with high skill points and wand use. With 3 levels of non-Wizard, you'll still get 9th level spells, though you'll have fewer spell slots than a level 18 or 20, and you'll be able to use cure wands without UMD.

Another problem with FS, Sorcerer and Bard as well, is that Chr is their casting stat and Chr is a dump stat on this build. If you look at the OP, stats are tight on this build. With a 6-10 Chr, you'll need an item or spell to raise your Chr high enough to cast any spells at all.

5) If you plan any offensive spellcasting, doing splashes is generally inadvisable because offensive DC is heavily dependant on the number of class levels you have.

Just wanted to clarify this. Multiclassing does not affect DC except if you are using highten and can not cast your higher level spells. DC is determined by casting stat with the formula 10+ Caster Stat bonus + Spell level + feats and enhancements.

Where multiclasses suffer a lower DC it is because they have to spread out stat points and don't max their casting stat, can't afford the feats, can only cast 7th or 8th level spells ans so their hightened spells suffer, or because they can't take the Wizard Capstone. Class levels have a marginal impact on DCs, calling DCs heavily dependant on class levels is mistaken.

What is dependant on class levels is Spell Penetration, which is 1 per level. However, not all monsters have Spell Resistance and direct damage spaells are not affected.

[donotdirect1]

Human Tinkerer?

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 True Neutral Human Male
(2 Rogue \ 18 Wizard) 
Hit Points: 256
Spell Points: 1543 
BAB: 10\10\15\20
Fortitude: 11
Reflex: 18
Will: 11

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength              9                 10                   10
Dexterity             8                  8                    8
Constitution         17                 19                   20
Intelligence         18                 25                   28
Wisdom                9                 10                   10
Charisma              9                 10                   10

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
Balance               3                  3                    3
Bluff                -1                  0                    0
Concentration         5                 28                   28
Diplomacy            -1                  0                    0
Disable Device        8                 32                   32
Haggle                3                  4                    4
Heal                 -1                  0                    0
Hide                  3                  3                    3
Intimidate           -1                  0                    0
Jump                  3                  4                    4
Listen               -1                  0                    0
Move Silently         3                  3                    3
Open Lock             3                 12                   12
Perform              n/a                n/a                   n/a
Repair                4                  9                    9
Search                8                 32                   32
Spot                  3                 12                   12
Swim                  3                  4                    4
Tumble                3                 13                   13
Use Magic Device      3                 23                   23

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Insightful Reflexes
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell


Level 3 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 4 (Wizard)


Level 5 (Wizard)


Level 6 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Empower Spell
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness


Level 7 (Wizard)


Level 8 (Wizard)


Level 9 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Mental Toughness


Level 10 (Wizard)


Level 11 (Rogue)


Level 12 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Heighten Spell
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration


Level 13 (Wizard)


Level 14 (Wizard)


Level 15 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 16 (Wizard)


Level 17 (Wizard)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Enlarge Spell


Level 18 (Wizard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Penetration


Level 19 (Wizard)


Level 20 (Wizard)
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Intelligence I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Human Versatility III
Enhancement: Human Versatility IV
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Heightening I
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Quickening I
Enhancement: Wizard Improved Quickening II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements I
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Elements II
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Elements I
Enhancement: Wizard Lineage of Deadly Elements II
Enhancement: Wizard Elemental Manipulation I
Enhancement: Wizard Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: Wizard Spell Penetration II
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar I
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar II
Enhancement: Wizard Energy of the Scholar III
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence I
Enhancement: Wizard Intelligence II
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I
Enhancement: Wizard Wand Mastery I
Enhancement: Wizard Wand Mastery II
Enhancement: Wizard Wand Mastery III
Enhancement: Wizard Wand Mastery IV

I changed the build for the wand and scroll mastery so I can have self healing, and I think with improved recovery it should work out better, but it seems I'm sacrificing allot of damage? I took the fire lines as force is really focused on the repair? I spread out some of my build points to eventually help with skill modifiers. I know summons can be a liability, but was wondering with all my UMD and wand a scroll mastery, might it be a good idea to take focus conjuration and heal my summon? What about eschew materials? I ended up following the OP, just getting the feats a bit earlier except I'm not sure about the next one. I took enlarge for more distance, as I've heard a couple of arcanes rave about enlarge in game. I think with human versatility I can do locks just fine without relying on knock? Am I too invested in spot? I heard someone mention intimidate... with extra skill points for being a human, might that be an interesting idea? Does someone have a link to a build like that?

That's a ton of questions. Thanks for any help you can offer.