New player needs aggro rules

[Snakebit]

Hi all, just recently joined DDO Unlimited, and went to VIP quickly. Could someone point me to an article or guide on how aggro works in DDO?

Some specific questions I have are:

1) What determines initial aggro when mobs first become aware?
2) What rules aggro behavior in terms of priority? IE Melee Damage>Range Damage>Healing/Buffing etc.
3) Other than Diplomacy, what are some ways to break aggro? Can you disengage from a battle and break aggro by closing a door, etc.
4) Are there methods you can use to break a mobs preferred attack method and switch to a less effective method (ie stop shamans from spellcasting)
5) Are there debuffs which won't aggro?

Thanks!

PS My only MMO experiance is with CoH, so I'm only aware of the aggro rules in that game.

[Torosar]

Welcome aboard!

1) Whoever it was that made them become aware will have aggro. That can be because they attacked the monster or because they ran up close and the monster heard/saw them before anyone else. Some monsters you will encounter later on have random aggro so they don't follow any real rules.

2) Healing / Buffing has no effect on aggro. There is no priority. Whoever is doing the most damage / has done the most damage will have aggro.

3) Someone else can do damage to the monster and that will break aggro from you. You can die, that stops the monster from being aggroed on you. You can close a door, but that doesn't break aggro. The monster just stands behind the door wishing he was smart enough to open it so he could hurt you. You can also have a friend try using Intimidate to take aggro off you.

4) Not really. Mobs generally either attack you with melee or with some type of ranged attack (bows / spells). If you get close to a ranged type attack they may try to attack you with melee which isn't anywhere near as strong as they are with their bow or spell. Alternatively, some melee mobs have ranged attacks which are quite weak and they may try to use that if they can't reach you for some reason (like standing up on a ledge).

5) Well sure, buffs / debuffs don't necessarily cause aggro unless you are the first person around. If a Fighter charges out in front towards an idle monster, who now wakes up and aggros on the Fighter, if the Wizard casts a debuff (like Ray of Enfeeblement or something) on the monster who is now chasing the Fighter, the Wizard won't get any aggro.

I hope that helps!

[Snakebit]

Thanks!

[FluffyCalico]

There was a time briefly where class did determine initial aggro. I forgot which patch it was but years ago there was a patch that made sorcs and clerics get initial aggro. I think mobs went after whatever had the most SP unless they had something trigger them to someone else. But that was not popular and went away quick.

The way it is now you **** it off and it chases you.

Things that make it mad from low to high
1) It sees you
2) You aggervate it, fog greese etc
3) You damage it
4) You hurt it bad
5) Successful intem
there is some gear and enhancements that also effect aggro.
and some things that teleport and few others have funky aggro

[tinyelvis]

They just modified the AI. Aggro was effected. Old ideas about aggro are not necessarily the same anymore. In general however, you do more damage you pull aggro.

[MissErres]

Hi all, just recently joined DDO Unlimited, and went to VIP quickly. Could someone point me to an article or guide on how aggro works in DDO?

Some specific questions I have are:

1) What determines initial aggro when mobs first become aware?
2) What rules aggro behavior in terms of priority? IE Melee Damage>Range Damage>Healing/Buffing etc.
3) Other than Diplomacy, what are some ways to break aggro? Can you disengage from a battle and break aggro by closing a door, etc.
4) Are there methods you can use to break a mobs preferred attack method and switch to a less effective method (ie stop shamans from spellcasting)
5) Are there debuffs which won't aggro?

Thanks!

PS My only MMO experiance is with CoH, so I'm only aware of the aggro rules in that game.

Mobs generally agro on whoever they see first, then on who is dealing them the most damage or intimidating them.

A few tips for fighting:

Kill the mob clerics/casters first.

Kill anything that trips second.

Use the terrain to your advantage. Fight in doorways, learn to "bend" your arrows around corners, find a safe spot, etc...

If mobs are hypno'd/facinated, pick them off ONE AT A TIME and do not cast a massive AoE damage spell in the middle of them.

In big fights, if you can "body pull" (not with a ranged weapon) a few mobs at a time, your cleric will love you. Also wait for the caster/bard to set up some crowd control. (Web is awesome!) And fight in the CC!

If you have agro, DON'T KITE unless this method is discussed and coordinated with the party. (This applies to any ranged characters and/or casters.) If you have a conga line of mobs chasing your and the rest of the party trying to chase them down to beat on them... man up, stop running, pull out a sword and take it.

Casters, stand/jump around in your AoE spells if you have agro.

Rogues, let tanks get agro first. Sneak attack/backstab is your friend.

Clerics and casters try to stay in the back as much as possible. Also, a well placed hypno/dance/command/etc... can save your life.

Casters, place your firewalls THROUGH the door, not on it. (To achieve this, turn sideways when casting.)

There are more, but these are the basics. Hope this helps with agro/mob management and makes your time here in Stormreach a little more enjoyable.

[Daimo]

The aggro behavior is one of the most annoying things in this game from my point of view.
Don't get me wrong, I love this game, am an returning player, play on VIP and all, but..

here's an example:

I run on my fighter and a cleric hireling thru an instance. The hireling doesnt have any movement enhancing items, so usually I'm running faster due to my 10% striding boots. We're running through a hallway, I charge into the next room full of monsters and try to start my hacking and slashing, while the cleric hireling is still outside in the hallway trying to catch up. And there it goes, 3/4th of the mobs in that room just ignore me and go straight for the **** hireling, without him even being in the same room or doing anything but running up to me.
Same thing happens to me on my sorcerer.. I stand way in the back, didnt even lift a finger yet, while a friend of mine charges into the room already and who do they go for?
Most of the time they don't even give up bevore dying. The enemies go from 100% to 10% hp in a couple of blows and still have aggro on my cleric hireling without him doing a single thing in the fight. Same goes with my sorc.. not a single cast, nada.. and still no way to peel off that mob.

Noone ever experienced that kind of behavior?

[Arnya]

Noone ever experienced that kind of behavior?

Yes, in any party I have been in that used any form of strategy.

How many times have you been yelled at to kill the casters first?

There was once a dev comment (Eladrin, I think) that the AI is based on player strategy, although I think he was kidding.

[TechNoFear]

Yes, in any party I have been in that used any form of strategy.

My WF standing in the door as the rogue opens it (then rogue stealths). Mobs run past me and attack rogue....

There was once a dev comment (Eladrin, I think) that the AI is based on player strategy, although I think he was kidding.

That was the 'caster suicide' AI 'feature' (fixed in EU I think).
Caster used to run right up to you, turn and run away then casts a spell in the opposite direction before turning and actually casting a spell at you.
This ment you could easily kill them before they got off an effective spell.

It was a dev joke that it was modeled off player behaviour.

[Arnya]

My WF standing in the door as the rogue opens it (then rogue stealths). Mobs run past me and attack rogue....



That was the 'caster suicide' AI 'feature' (fixed in EU I think).
Caster used to run right up to you, turn and run away then casts a spell in the opposite direction before turning and actually casting a spell at you.
This ment you could easily kill them before they got off an effective spell.

It was a dev joke that it was modeled off player behaviour.

Kinda, but not quite

[Rallick]

On my Sorcerer.. cast a web in front of me.. group pulls, mob runs for the Cleric, but when he comes to my web, he Saves, and then targets me.. lol.. running through your spells, even if they save and it does nothing to them can you earn you a painful amount of hate..

[Srengi]

The aggro behavior is one of the most annoying things in this game from my point of view.
Don't get me wrong, I love this game, am an returning player, play on VIP and all, but..

here's an example:

I run on my fighter and a cleric hireling thru an instance. The hireling doesnt have any movement enhancing items, so usually I'm running faster due to my 10% striding boots. We're running through a hallway, I charge into the next room full of monsters and try to start my hacking and slashing, while the cleric hireling is still outside in the hallway trying to catch up. And there it goes, 3/4th of the mobs in that room just ignore me and go straight for the **** hireling, without him even being in the same room or doing anything but running up to me.
Same thing happens to me on my sorcerer.. I stand way in the back, didnt even lift a finger yet, while a friend of mine charges into the room already and who do they go for?
Most of the time they don't even give up bevore dying. The enemies go from 100% to 10% hp in a couple of blows and still have aggro on my cleric hireling without him doing a single thing in the fight. Same goes with my sorc.. not a single cast, nada.. and still no way to peel off that mob.

Noone ever experienced that kind of behavior?

Absolutely.

Im a total renoob, so I can only go on what Ive seen first hand recently. I think aggro has something to do with SP? maybe?.

I was pugging in a group the other day. I was the only one with SP in the group. (Bunch of melee and me a ranger) I cant remember what quest we were doing but the mobs where charging straight for me ignoring all the other melee. We even tested it out. I would stay far back, not healing or buffing anyone, while around the corner the rest of the party would engage the group of mobs. Usually most of the enemies, or at least one or two, would beeline straight for me around the corner while I was sneaking. No LOS, no spells being casted, sneaking. We even tested where I didnt buff anyone a couple times in case barkskin somehow was causing the agg. Same results.

No complaints or anything, just thought Id add a personal observation.

Edit: Fixed some errors

[Shade]

Most monsters in endgame dungeons actually have slightly better agro AI.

If a group moves in together, they will pretty much always run right by any fighters, barbarians or rogues and go straight for casters and clerics and favored souls first, after that paladins and rangers. Seems to go somewhat in the order of highest mana to lowest.

They even generate a certain amount of hate imediately without performing any actions.

Very noticeable on my barbarian in epic quests like chains. I can rush into a group of 5 gnolls with the party quite a ways behind me, and they all run by straight for the cleric. Even if I hit every single one with a glancing blow, they all go.. I've even scored a crit on a first hit for 500+, and that's still not enough to convince them to switch. Basicly I need to hit every mobs 2-3 times to gain agro.

Certain monsters even just plain tottally 100% ignore melee classes and ALWAYS attack casters with a vengence. This is especially noticable in wizard king. I can run into one of the rooms that close, locking out my party - and this is actually the best tatctic ! Because the clay golems inside just absolutely will not attack me. They agro the party locked outside the door and just wait by the door as I deal several thousand damage to them, they never turn or care what im doing to them.
Same goes for:
Mummies (tho there semi random and may attack me once occoasonally then start chasing the caster again)
Flesh Golems

[Carpone]

Purely anecdotal, but I'm fairly convinced rust monsters initially head directly to the first warforged player it sees.

I wouldn't be surprised to learn other monsters are drawn to other specific attributes (class, alignment, etc).

[Elixxer]

Purely anecdotal, but I'm fairly convinced rust monsters initially head directly to the first warforged player it sees.

I wouldn't be surprised to learn other monsters are drawn to other specific attributes (class, alignment, etc).

Like me on my Elf, I always go for the giants first
stupid slavery...

[budwise09]

Purely anecdotal, but I'm fairly convinced rust monsters initially head directly to the first warforged player it sees.

Yes, they do. At least in my experience with my WF toon.

[TheHubby]

The aggro behavior is one of the most annoying things in this game from my point of view.
Don't get me wrong, I love this game, am an returning player, play on VIP and all, but..

here's an example:

I run on my fighter and a cleric hireling thru an instance. The hireling doesnt have any movement enhancing items, so usually I'm running faster due to my 10% striding boots. We're running through a hallway, I charge into the next room full of monsters and try to start my hacking and slashing, while the cleric hireling is still outside in the hallway trying to catch up. And there it goes, 3/4th of the mobs in that room just ignore me and go straight for the **** hireling, without him even being in the same room or doing anything but running up to me.
Same thing happens to me on my sorcerer.. I stand way in the back, didnt even lift a finger yet, while a friend of mine charges into the room already and who do they go for?
Most of the time they don't even give up bevore dying. The enemies go from 100% to 10% hp in a couple of blows and still have aggro on my cleric hireling without him doing a single thing in the fight. Same goes with my sorc.. not a single cast, nada.. and still no way to peel off that mob.

Noone ever experienced that kind of behavior?

I run into this all the time so far. Just got my first character to 6th as a returning player, been a couple years since I played. I see this constantly with my hireling. I'll knock 3/4 of a mobs HP off on my first attack chain and then it will run past me to attack the cleric hireling who has done nothing at all. I'm not sure if this behavior or kobold shamans chain jumping backwards 4 times before ending up 15 feet up a wall where I can't reach them is more annoying, it's kind of a toss up. Still enjoying the game, but man, I'd love if they changed the mob AI a little.

[Trillea]

Yes, they do. At least in my experience with my WF toon.

It has been confirmed before that WF produce more aggro for rusties (they are tasty!).