I basically have no idea what I am doing...

[Neversoul]

...which will likely become manifestly obvious as soon as I start posting my stats. I have never played a Rogue before, but I wanted to bring some more utility to a group than simple damage dealing. My goal was to have a Rogue who was capable of using all of their signature skills, while also being strong enough to still solo some dungeons and put out decent dps.

I created the following character (I think these were the starting stats, I don't have my game open)

Halfling Rogue
STR:16
DEX: 16
Con: 10
Int: 12
Wis: 8
CHA: 8

I wanted a decent strength score. I wanted to skip weapon finesse. I didn't need too many skills (I have open lock, disable trap, spot, listen, search, hide, move silently, tumble, and diplomacy kept at max). I wanted two weapon fighting (my first feat) and I thought the dragon mark would be a useful line of feats too (least dragon mark of healing was my second feat)

I was planning on taking the rest of the two weapon fighting series and the rest of the dragon mark series, as well as improved critical.

I was planning on building towards the assassin prestige enhancement and grabbing that.

So far things have gone really well, but I was telling another guy in game about my build and he laughed and said I was the worst built rogue he had ever heard of. Which is, I admit, a distinct possibility, since I am very new to the game and have more or less no idea what I am doing.

So, my question is, what exactly is broken about my character. How/Can I fix it? Should I just reroll?

Thank you very much for your time

[Impaqt]

...which will likely become manifestly as soon as I start posting my stats. I have never played a Rogue before, but I wanted to bring some more utility to a group than simple damage dealing. My goal was to have a Rogue who was capable of using all of their signature skills, while also being strong enough to still solo some dungeons and put out decent dps.

I created the following character (I think these were the starting stats, I don't have my game open)

Halfling Rogue
STR:16
DEX: 16
Con: 10
Int: 12
Wis: 8
CHA: 8

I wanted a decent strength score. I wanted to skip weapon finesse. I didn't need too many skills (I have open lock, disable trap, spot, listen, search, hide, move silently, tumble, and diplomacy kept at max). I wanted two weapon fighting (my first feat) and I thought the dragon mark would be a useful line of feats too (lesser dragon mark of healing was my second feat)

I was planning on taking the rest of the two weapon fighting series and the rest of the dragon mark series, as well as improved critical.

I was planning on building towards the assassin prestige enhancement and grabbing that.

So far things have gone really well, but I was telling another guy in game about my build and he laughed and said I was the worst built rogue he had ever heard of. Which is, I admit, a distinct possibility, since I am very new to the game and have more or less no idea what I am doing.

So, my question is, what exactly is broken about my character. How/Can I fix it? Should I just reroll?

Thank you very much for your time

Looks like the perfect Halfling Rogue to me. Whoever laughed at you is probobly a moron.

I dont think you'll have enoug feats to take all the dragonmarks and all the Melee feats ya need though. You should consider taking 2 levels of Fighter for the extra Feats.

[KingOfCheese]

Whoever told you this was terrible, doesn't know rogues very well.

This is a pretty solid STR-based rogue build. What you have should work quite well (based on what you've shown here).

I might have gone a little higher CON--but you should be OK with what you have.

One suggestion is to max out UMD. At higher levels, you will add a ton of survivability and group utility by being able to use all scrolls in the game (heal in particular).

[Chiapet]

I looked at your post, and the only real thing that I see wrong is that your INT is too low. You are going to have real problems at the higher levels with traps & doors. I also have a "trap monkey assassin" that I wanted to do the same as you...I wanted to be a good "trap monkey", but I also wanted to be deadly. So I went Ranger/Rogue. I am currently 14 Rogue/2 Ranger. By doing this type of build, you do loose the capstone, but you get several feats free (such as TWF). You also gain the ability to use cure wands at the first level of Ranger. Not only are you a good trap monkey, but you can also sort of self support yourself & deal plenty of damage at the same time. The trick to remember when playing a rogue that you want to see do damage is to let someone else get the agro, then backstab the hell out of what you are attacking.

I completly agree with maxing out your UMD. You will be allot more versitile with that.

[Baahb3]

Two things that I could comment on:

1. a 16 str for a halfling means that you spend 16 of your 28 points (i am guessing that you do not have 32 point builds) on one stat. If you still wanted a good str you could drop that to 14 and save yourself 6 points and you would only loose one to hit and damage.

2. A 10 con on any character is difficult to play and a 10 con on a class that does not get a lot of base hitpoints or class toughness enhancments is even more difficult. I would follow the suggestion in part one and take at least 4 of those 6 points and put them in con.

I would suggest something like:

14 Str
16 Dex
14 Con
14 Int
8 Wis
8 Cha

You could also take two from int and put them in wisdom as your spot skill is wisdom based.

Just my thoughts

[KingOfCheese]

I think your INT is fine. With the proper gear, you will have no trouble with traps. This is particularly true at the higher levels. With your 12 INT, you can easily get your search/disable in the mid-40s to 50s--which is more than enough for any relevant trap in the game.

[Creeper]

I looked at your post, and the only real thing that I see wrong is that your INT is too low. You are going to have real problems at the higher levels with traps & doors. I also have a "trap monkey assassin" that I wanted to do the same as you...I wanted to be a good "trap monkey", but I also wanted to be deadly. So I went Ranger/Rogue. I am currently 14 Rogue/2 Ranger. By doing this type of build, you do loose the capstone, but you get several feats free (such as TWF). You also gain the ability to use cure wands at the first level of Ranger. Not only are you a good trap monkey, but you can also sort of self support yourself & deal plenty of damage at the same time. The trick to remember when playing a rogue that you want to see do damage is to let someone else get the agro, then backstab the hell out of what you are attacking.

I completly agree with maxing out your UMD. You will be allot more versitile with that.

How will having a higher INT affect his trap and open lock skills at higher levels? 12 int is nine skill points per level. To suggest he will have "real" problems seems a little extreme. His search and disable may be 2 points lower than someone with 16 INT but he should still be fine as a pure class.


To the OP; looks like a good build but I would drop tumble for Use Magic Device.

[Impaqt]

I looked at your post, and the only real thing that I see wrong is that your INT is too low. You are going to have real problems at the higher levels with traps & doors. I also have a "trap monkey assassin" that I wanted to do the same as you...I wanted to be a good "trap monkey", but I also wanted to be deadly. So I went Ranger/Rogue. I am currently 14 Rogue/2 Ranger. By doing this type of build, you do loose the capstone, but you get several feats free (such as TWF). You also gain the ability to use cure wands at the first level of Ranger. Not only are you a good trap monkey, but you can also sort of self support yourself & deal plenty of damage at the same time. The trick to remember when playing a rogue that you want to see do damage is to let someone else get the agro, then backstab the hell out of what you are attacking.

I completly agree with maxing out your UMD. You will be allot more versitile with that.

This is a misconception on the highest level.

+1 to +2 more Int skills from a higher INT is harldy noticeable. I've proven that a ROgue with an 8 INT can get the Cabal trap on Eite with the right items and enhancments if they want to. Int is a minor factor in a rogues ability to disarm traps. Items, Buffs, potions, Enhhancemnts, CLickies... They all make even the highest end traps inteh game accessable with a little work.

[Delt]

UMD is so ridiculously powerful and useful, it just doesn't make much sense to skip it. Especially seeing as you are spending feats on the Dragonmark line (with UMD and a little gear, you can spend those feats elsewhere). And you wouldn't need to be tempted to take fighter for extra feats (who knows, the next Capstone for rogue might be awesome).

Other than that, the build looks fine...but imo, skipping UMD will just make you want to reroll at 20. It's probably not too late to deal with it -- just forget Listen and Diplomacy and double up into UMD.

[Creeper]

By doing this type of build, you do loose the capstone, but you get several feats free (such as TWF). You also gain the ability to use cure wands at the first level of Ranger. Not only are you a good trap monkey, but you can also sort of self support yourself & deal plenty of damage at the same time. The trick to remember when playing a rogue that you want to see do damage is to let someone else get the agro, then backstab the hell out of what you are attacking.

I completly agree with maxing out your UMD. You will be allot more versitile with that.

As a follow up to the OP; If you do max out your UMD you do not need ranger levels to use cure wands.

[Creeper]

UMD is so ridiculously powerful and useful, it just doesn't make much sense to skip it. Especially seeing as you are spending feats on the Dragonmark line (with UMD and a little gear, you can spend those feats elsewhere). And you wouldn't need to be tempted to take fighter for extra feats (who knows, the next Capstone for rogue might be awesome).

Other than that, the build looks fine...but imo, skipping UMD will just make you want to reroll at 20. It's probably not too late to deal with it -- just forget Listen and Diplomacy and double up into UMD.

Agreed, You don't need to reroll but skip listen, diplo, and tumble for a few levels (skip tumble all together).

[Neversoul]

Thanks for the responses.

I'll stop leveling tumbling (I hardly ever tumble anyway) and start leveling UMD instead.

[ArkoHighStar]

I might suggest moving str to a 15 which would allow you to go to

15 str
16 dex
11 con
14 int
8 wis
8 chr

As you level you could get a +1 str tome and a +1 con tome. Also if you are going TWF you will either need to use one one level up stat to dex or get a +1 tome, you will need this for ITWF and GTWF which has a min 17 base dex requirement.

+1 tomes can be purchased at the DDO store, gotten off the AH or looted in lvl 8 quests on elite or higher.

Getting your int to at least 14 will help with the assasin line as your dc is affected by your int score plus your rogue level.

con could stay 10 but given its your first rogue a little extra cushion would be nice.

Otherwise since you are going for str build pump all your points into str, if you dont use a tome all 5 lvl points will put you to base 20 with a +6 item you will be sitting at a 26, a +2 tome(not hard to find near end game) 28. If you get a +1 dex tome with a base 16 dex and using enhancements you will be sitting at a 28 dex as well.

At lower levels I woudln't bother with TWF get a light shield or a mithral heavy shield, you are better off with a decent AC, and then moving onto TWF when your AC isn't working as well around lvl 9

[ArkoHighStar]

This is a misconception on the highest level.

+1 to +2 more Int skills from a higher INT is harldy noticeable. I've proven that a ROgue with an 8 INT can get the Cabal trap on Eite with the right items and enhancments if they want to. Int is a minor factor in a rogues ability to disarm traps. Items, Buffs, potions, Enhhancemnts, CLickies... They all make even the highest end traps inteh game accessable with a little work.

agreed but he is going assasin and for that it does help somewhat

[Impaqt]

agreed but he is going assasin and for that it does help somewhat

also unecessary. L12 Assasin 10+12 +3 = 25 DC. Hardly anything around that level will save against a 25 DC Death attack. Especially 2WF where you get a Double shot at the kill.

Big benefit of assasin is the extra Damage and the Vorpal effect at Assassin 3. Which has no DC.

[Hafeal]

Impaqt, I agree for normal. But on hard and elite I think he may find assassinate attempts don't work nearly as well.

To the OP, my thought was to bump INT too; in addition to assassinate and rogue skills, I like having skill points for the other stuff - balance, jump, UMD and even haggle. I think rogues use so many different skills, a higher intelligence makes the most sense.

If you are going strength based, my only thought is to change from Halfling to Dwarf or Warforged. Better Strength and Con to start. IF you want to stay Halfling, don't go based strength, go dex based. By doing this, you will free up more more points to beef up CON (as Cheese pointed out, this is important, at end game especially) and INT.

also unecessary. L12 Assasin 10+12 +3 = 25 DC. Hardly anything around that level will save against a 25 DC Death attack. Especially 2WF where you get a Double shot at the kill.

Big benefit of assasin is the extra Damage and the Vorpal effect at Assassin 3. Which has no DC.

[Impaqt]

If your relying on a Rogue to go sneak up and assassinate things on Hard and Elite, your proobly questing over your level anyway.

You cant assassinate Red/Purple named mobs. thats where having the extra Damage from assassin is the most benefitial IMO. (well, except for undead Red/Purle)

[Neversoul]

I might suggest moving str to a 15 which would allow you to go to

15 str
16 dex
11 con
14 int
8 wis
8 chr

As you level you could get a +1 str tome and a +1 con tome. Also if you are going TWF you will either need to use one one level up stat to dex or get a +1 tome, you will need this for ITWF and GTWF which has a min 17 base dex requirement.

+1 tomes can be purchased at the DDO store, gotten off the AH or looted in lvl 8 quests on elite or higher.

Getting your int to at least 14 will help with the assasin line as your dc is affected by your int score plus your rogue level.

con could stay 10 but given its your first rogue a little extra cushion would be nice.

Otherwise since you are going for str build pump all your points into str, if you dont use a tome all 5 lvl points will put you to base 20 with a +6 item you will be sitting at a 26, a +2 tome(not hard to find near end game) 28. If you get a +1 dex tome with a base 16 dex and using enhancements you will be sitting at a 28 dex as well.

At lower levels I woudln't bother with TWF get a light shield or a mithral heavy shield, you are better off with a decent AC, and then moving onto TWF when your AC isn't working as well around lvl 9

Do the bonuses to my dexterity from enhancements not count as my base? If not, wouldn't it make an equal amount of sense to purchase a dexterity tome?

If I rerolled, and didn't take TWF to begin with, which feats would you recommend for my first few?

Can I even use a shield? I didn't know rogues could.

Thanks.

[Creeper]

Do the bonuses to my dexterity from enhancements not count as my base? If not, wouldn't it make an equal amount of sense to purchase a dexterity tome?

If I rerolled, and didn't take TWF to begin with, which feats would you recommend for my first few?

Can I even use a shield? I didn't know rogues could.

Thanks.

You can use a shield. You will only take a negative to your attack roll which will equal the shield's armor check penalty, which will not affect you at all if it is mithril. +2 mithril heavy shields drop from Waterworks a lot.

Enhancements will not count toward ability feat prerequisties but tomes do. You only need 17 dex for the TWF feats so one +1 dex tome will do it.