TWF Tactics Fighter

[NachyoChez]

Basic idea is to make use of the "tactics" of a Fighter. My attempt is to get The Save DCs up as high as I can, dish out soild DPS, and have fun watching.

Dwarf (the Dwarf Enhancements grant a +3 to the DC on both Trip and Stunning Blow)
Starting Stats:
Str: 18 (all level stat points here)
Dex: 15 (TWF, will get +2 tome for ITWF/GTWF)
Con: 10
Int: 11 (CE for Improved Trip, Still hoping for that +2 tome!)
Wis: 8
Cha: 6

If I had the 32 Point build, I'd raise Con a bit more, but work with you have, right?

Feats: (in no particular order)
1) Weapon Focus: Bludge
2) Weapon Specialization: Bludge
3) Greater Weapon Focus: Bludge
4) Greater Weapon Specialization: Bludge
5) Superior Weapon Focus: Bludge
6) Two Weapon Fighting
7) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
8) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
9) Stunning Blow
10) Combat Expertise
11) Improved Trip
12) Power Attack
13) Improved Critical
14) Iron Will
15) ???
16) ???
17) ???
18) ???

Enhancements:
Kensai 3
Kensai 2
Kensai 1
Kensai Wep 3
Kensai Wep 2
Kensai Wep 1
Warhammer Spec. 2
Warhammer Spec. 1
Crit. Accuracy 4
Crit. Accuracy 3
Crit. Accuracy 2
Crit. Accuracy 1
Attack Boost 4
Attack Boost 3
Attack Boost 2
Attack Boost 1
Fighter Stunning 4
Fighter Stunning 3
Fighter Stunning 2
Fighter Stunning 1
Fighter Trip 4
Fighter Trip 3
Fighter Trip 2
Fighter Trip 1
Dwarven Tactics 3
Dwarven Tactics 2
Dwarven Tactics 1
Fighter Strength 3
Fighter Strength 2
Fighter Strength 1
Fighter Weapon Alacrity

I went dual wielding for the double save on first hit, and I'm hoping to get one "weighted" and one "vertigo" to up the DCs. Thoughts? Suggestions?

[Shade]

Been thinking about making a tactic fighter too.. Would go for the ultimate DC tho, just fighter alone results in only decent DCs.. Gota splash some barb levels for the ultimate DC. Since Kensai III only gives +1, and Ftr lvls13-20 offer nothing else for DC.

Would go Dwarf I think.. Mainly because I wanna get that serrulae and put it to good use (+5 transmuting, giantbane, vertigo +10 battleaxe). Warforged with Khopesh is a good choice also tho.. Think you can get a +5 vertigo +10 khopesh, min lvl20 these days.. Just super rare. Trip tends to be the most effective endgame, as fort saves are rather extreme making stuns effectiveness drop severely (tho would still work good on a max DC build)

Some old numbers I put together (probably some mistakes)
Pure Barb Tactics:

Str:
18 base
5 lvls
6 item
4 tome
1 lotd
= 34 base
12 rage
2 capstone
= 48
or +19
+6 Frenzy
= 54 or +22
= DC 32
2 FB raidset
= DC 33
+3 Racial Enhancemen
= DC 36

Pure Ftr
Str:
34 base
+3 enhance str
37
= DC23.5
+4 enhance tactics
= DC27.5
+3 Kensai III
= DC30.5
+4 Powersurge (8 str)
= DC34.5
+3 Racial Enhancement
=DC37.5

Ftr12/Barb8:
Str:
34 base
3 fr enhance
+6 rage=
43 (+16)
=DC 26.5
+4 Ftr Tactics
+2 Kensai
= 32.5
+4 Powersurge (8 str)
= 36.5
+1 (Frenzy +2 str)
=DC37.5
+3 Racial Enhancement
=DC40.5

+4 Improved trip
+10 Vertigo 10 Axe
=DC 54.5 (Unresistable by every monster in the game, for 1 minuit gaurenteed CC)

Feats look ok, tho personally would spec in Slash/Dwarven Axes.. Tactics feats are for CC, not DPS. Put a Tenderizer in 1 hand and a proper Min2 Dwarven Axe in the other.. Stun and auto crit at x3 crits, x3 burst with holy, acid burst, acid blast.. (or other triple dmg Greensteel) Do this on my TWF Barb and its rather effective, so on a proper tactic build it should be ultra effective.

Probably throw improved sunder in there too at low lvl.. Limited use at high lvl, but has a good use at low lvl.

Edit: Just noticed the 28 pnt.. 10 con melee hurts allot.. Really recommend waiting on 32-pointers before making such an advanced build that requires rare weaponry, good knowledge of monsters and twtich skilll to put to strong use.
That or drop to 17 str for some con.. 6 wis WF means your falling every will save around too, iron will or not.. Imo, go Dwarf for better saves or wait on 32 pointers.

[NachyoChez]

The math on your DCs are slightly off, as you forgot to add in the Kensai Power Surge (+8 Str.) Puts me at 36 Unbuffed non weighted Stunning Fist DC, and a 40 Trip DC with the current setup.

I do like the Dwarf idea though (costs less money! Yay!)

Plus it'll make healing easier.

Also, I just realized Power Surge comes at Kensai 2. Might be the perfect time to swap to Barb.... Does rage stack with Power Surge?

[Shade]

Yea they were old numbers pre kensai, kinda tossed it together.. Updated it now, should be correct.

DC34.5 for Pure

3 more for Barb mix (from 8 more str raged +Frenzy, but -1 from no Kensai III)
DC37.5

To answer question:
Rage stacks will always stack with everything in the game always as it's an untyped special bonus designed to do so.
Kensai Powersurge is typed as Insight, thus wouldn't stack with other insight bonuses. However no other Insight bonuses to str exist in the game, so also currently stacks with everything.

[NachyoChez]

I'm in no way adverse going Barb if it really does add so much extra to my DCs (already switching to Dwarf), but something just isn't adding up yet:

W/Fighter Pure:
34 base Str (+12) (18 Starting, +5 leveling, +3 Ftr Enhancements, +2 Tome, +6 Item)
Racial Enh: (+3)
Fighter Enh: (+4)
Kensai: (+3)
Power Surge: (+4)
Base: +10
-----------------
DC 36
Trip: 40


What does Barb give me beyond the help with will and dodge?

[Shade]

mm.. All the numbers are there. And as i've said.. Only thing you added I didn't was the racial bonus.. I'll put it in.

Pure Kensai will give more dps, as you'd get +1 crit range and +10% attack speed vs 6 str and 2d6 vicious damage.
But as i've said, Barb mix give +3 more DC from having +8 more str from rage/frenzy.

The other big things Barb levels give:
+10% run Speed
+35% more run speed with sprint boost (awesome enhance imo)
3 DR/-
3-~5 Rages, up to 6 with raidset.. Tho still may be fairly limited duration, especially at only 10 con =/

If your not concerned with having the ultimate DC or some barb benefits.. The added dps from kensai and capstone should be worth it.

[Shade]

The other concern is AP cost.. As all this DC increases includes some VERY heavy high cost enhancements. Not sure you can even fit every single one in.

Especially the fighter tactics..
1/2/3/4 per type.. So 10 AP for stun, 10 for trip.. Already 20/80 AP used.

[NachyoChez]

The other concern is AP cost.. As all this DC increases includes some VERY heavy high cost enhancements. Not sure you can even fit every single one in.

Especially the fighter tactics..
1/2/3/4 per type.. So 10 AP for stun, 10 for trip.. Already 20/80 AP used.

Unless I did the math wrong (excel spreadsheets are my friend!) then the enhancements listed are EXACTLY 80 AP.

Dropping those 8 levels of Fighter for Barb will net me back +11 AP (2 from Kensai 3 PrE, 1 from Kensai Weap. Mastery 3, 4 from Critical Accuracy 4, and 4 from Attack Boost 4)

I know very little of the Barbarian, is that enough to get the Rages up to the DCs you where talking about?

Shade, SINCERELY thank you for the help. I realize the build is a little above my noob paygrade, but it just looks soooo fun!