Ultimega 18/2 WF THF Pally/Rog

[Rasczak]

Litany works for LG characters without penalty?

[Stamp3de]

If u plan all ur stats odd without Littany, the benefits will overcome the neg lvl.

It gives -1 to saves, -10 hps and, -1 attack I believe, but if using the littany makes ur con even again, then u net 10 hps, dont lose any attack bonus or saves. You gain str dmg if ur str was odd, on top of the +1 profane attack and dmg.

[Stamp3de]

What about your current build - 20pally? Can you reveal it too?
PS: next time you chase me in the PvP, use your fists - you hit hard anyways

Ultimega: Paladin 20

32pt:

Str: 16
Dex: 8
Con: 16
Int: 8
Wis: 6
Cha: 16

36pt:

Str: 18 (+5 lvl, +7 item, +3 exceptional, +4 tome, +3 abashai set = 40 unbuffed/ +1 bladesworn, +6 Choker, +2 Yugo pot, +6 Titans grip +4 madstone +2 rage +2 Ship buff = 63 maxed/ 67 with past life barb rage)

Dex: 8

Con: 14 (+6 item, +3 exceptional, +4 tome +1 littany = 28 / +8 madstone, +6 chocker +2 rage +2 yugo pot +2 Ship buff= 48 maxed / 52 with past life barb rage)

Int: 8

Wis: 6

Cha: 16 (+7 item, +1 exceptional, +4 tome, +1 Littany +1 enchancement 2 yugo pot+2 Ship buff= 34
__________________

Feats:
THF
ITHF
GTHF
Extend (or Past life Feat Barb )
Toughness
Power Attack
Imp Crit slash
__________________

Enhancements:

Weapons of Good
Follower of the Lord of the Blade
Bladesworn Transformation
Courage of Good II
Divine Sacrifice III
Exalted Smite IV
Extra Smite Evil IV
Extra Loh III
KOTC III
Racial Toughness II
Energy of the Templar II
Charisma I
Paladin Toughness II
Divine Might IV
Healers Friend I
WF Power Attack III
__________________

Highlights:

4d6 Dmg vs EO (KoTC Enhancment) *
3d6 Dmg vs EO (KoTC ToD Set) *
3d6 Dmg vs EO/EU (Pally Capstone: 2d6 holy vs EO EU + 1d6 light vs all Evil *
9d6 Light Dmg vs Everything (Divine Sacrifice/ 10% chance to double with zeal for 18d6) Cool down 3 secs.

* = 100% proc on glancing blows

+8 Sacred Dmg (Divine Might IV)
+3 Dmg/Atk (Divine Favor)
+4 Profane Dmg (Bladesworn Transformation)

12 Smite Evil uses (2 sec cooldown, regen every 90s)

13 Divine Might uses or 12 Uses of Censure Demon (Stuns enemy EO dc 40 will save)

Zeal +10% Double Strike (Can double smite crit for 2x900+)
Smite Crit on a 13-20 for x5 with Epic SoS for over 900 base dmg buffed up
Sacrifice crit on a 15-20 for x4 with Epic SoS for around 400 buffed up

Decent saves
WF/Pally Immunities

622~ Hps unbuffed, can get higher with tomes enhancments (over 800~ raged out, 900+ possible but very situational)
650~ Sps, more than enough for self buffs

LoH: 300 hp heals x 4 uses

11 ranks +12 cha mod, +5 umd item, +4 gh, +2 luck, +6 greensteel item =
40UMD; No fail reconstruct scrolls.

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I tried converting this build to Half Orc but it's NOT worth it.
There is just not enough APs to fit in all the good Half Orc enhancements and keep all the Pally dmg enhancements.

You would lose out on:

Divine Might IV +8 dmg (2 more dmg than tier III)
Pally Capstone (1or3d6 vs E or EO)
Tier III KOTC (2d6 vs EO more than Tier II)
Divine Sacrafice III (9d6 Light dmg vs all, 2d6 more than Tier II)
Extra LoH Tier III
Bladesworn Transformation (+4 str and +4 dmg)
+2 con starting

So you'd just gain +4 str, +4 dmg
+ better incoming heals

[Balordo]

Hi,
what kind of weapon you use?

[Stamp3de]

Hi,
what kind of weapon you use?

You should use Min II or Lightning II falchion till u get an epic SoS.

[Zodh]

Hey, man, thanx for the update on your pure pally!
My Gnrl Zod is already 18 and I really enjoy this build.

[Zodh]

And now he's TR'd lvl18.
Nice and easy going towards 36pt build.

[Gercho]

Hey, planning to tr my paly into this build, one question, after update 5 you still think the thf line is worthy? or can we switch some or all the line for other stuff?

[Stamp3de]

I still think the THF is worthy. Max dps is max dps.

[Dark-Star]

For what it's worth, I have a decently geared TWF pali (2x epic Chaos Blades, etc.) and the DPS seems very high on that build as well.

Part of Ulti's perspective may be that he is one of the best players on our server, run with him and you'll see, and has a ton of experince with the subtle nuances of THF that make the difference.

If we assume player skill to be constant for both styles, the changes in U5 hit THF paladins harder than TWF due to the glancing blow changes. Ulti have you tested both styles again after the current update? I'd be interested in your numbers, similar to the testing you did early on in your Sins solo runs.

[Gercho]

For what it's worth, I have a decently geared TWF pali (2x epic Chaos Blades, etc.) and the DPS seems very high on that build as well.

Part of Ulti's perspective may be that he is one of the best players on our server, run with him and you'll see, and has a ton of experince with the subtle nuances of THF that make the difference.

If we assume player skill to be constant for both styles, the changes in U5 hit THF paladins harder than TWF due to the glancing blow changes. Ulti have you tested both styles again after the current update? I'd be interested in your numbers, similar to the testing you did early on in your Sins solo runs.

the thing is, for a not hard core player as me, getting an epic sos is a possibility, getting two epic chaos blades is impossible, so even if thats higher dps, i cant dream of it...

[Zodh]

But still, what are the best alternatives to all those THF feats?

[SteeleTrueheart]

Added in:

Glancing blow dmg (+100% 4d6 evil outsider dmg proc rate)

+2d6 holy Min II

+4d6 vs evil outsiders

+3d6 when the fix KOTC set from raid

7d6 light dmg every 6th attack from Divine Sacrifice (MAH FINGERS!!!)

+1d6 +11(+3 rogue enhancment, +8 goggles) Sneak attack Dmg Situationally

I dusted my THF off the other day and was trying to understand the THF mechanics a bit more.

A question about glancing blows since you seem to have run a pali with THF for quite some time now.

I did some testing in the devil battlefield today because I saw this number breakdown and it was not what I was seeing. Here is what I did and the results I see.

(I have Greater Two Handed Fighting feat and this is a human KotC 17 Pal / 2 Rogue)

Buff. Run somewhere and gather 2-4 orthons and/or devils in a group. Target one. stand still and swing. At various times I used a Holy GS of Greater Undead bane, a metalline of evil outsider bane GS and also used a Min I (not yet third tiered) Great Axe which was Acid/good burst. KotC 2 at the moment.

Results:
I would hit the main target with Weapon Damage + Holy + KotC. I would get quite a lot of glancing blows probably 30% or so on the foes I am not targeting. However they would only get the reduced Weapon damage + KotC damage. I NEVER saw holy proc (or acid/good or greater bane as the case may be)

Are the weapon effects supposed to proc on glancing blows? I read the feat description to mean it was supposed to. I am not really happy with GTHF damage potential if this is the case.

[Zapkill]

what weapon are you using?

[Talesin]

I dusted my THF off the other day and was trying to understand the THF mechanics a bit more.

A question about glancing blows since you seem to have run a pali with THF for quite some time now.

I did some testing in the devil battlefield today because I saw this number breakdown and it was not what I was seeing. Here is what I did and the results I see.

(I have Greater Two Handed Fighting feat and this is a human KotC 17 Pal / 2 Rogue)

Buff. Run somewhere and gather 2-4 orthons and/or devils in a group. Target one. stand still and swing. At various times I used a Holy GS of Greater Undead bane, a metalline of evil outsider bane GS and also used a Min I (not yet third tiered) Great Axe which was Acid/good burst. KotC 2 at the moment.

Results:
I would hit the main target with Weapon Damage + Holy + KotC. I would get quite a lot of glancing blows probably 30% or so on the foes I am not targeting. However they would only get the reduced Weapon damage + KotC damage. I NEVER saw holy proc (or acid/good or greater bane as the case may be)

Are the weapon effects supposed to proc on glancing blows? I read the feat description to mean it was supposed to. I am not really happy with GTHF damage potential if this is the case.

I've noticed the exact same thing on my dwarf THF (all 3 feats) Barbarian... I'm currently using a Min II Greataxe. On Glancing Blows the only damage I get is the reduced main weapon damage and frenzy/death frenzy damage. The weapon effects NEVER proc on glancing Blows.

On a side note a vorpal two-handed weapon and supreme cleave (hits ALL mobs within your weapon radius) work rather nicely on quests like sins of attrition where you are constantly surrounded by a lot of high hit point mobs.

[emptysands]

Are the weapon effects supposed to proc on glancing blows? I read the feat description to mean it was supposed to. I am not really happy with GTHF damage potential if this is the case.

Its not very high: http://community.codemasters.com/for...ml#post5759794

Here's some numbers from my testing and my experiences so far. (Take note that these numbers are nowhere near 100% accurate, and may differe quite a lot from what I've said here)

Kensai / FB rank: 5% each rank
THF lines: 2% each feat
Capstone: 5%
WF Great Weapon Aptitude: 2% each rank

[SteeleTrueheart]

Its not very high: http://community.codemasters.com/for...ml#post5759794

Here's some numbers from my testing and my experiences so far. (Take note that these numbers are nowhere near 100% accurate, and may differe quite a lot from what I've said here)

Kensai / FB rank: 5% each rank
THF lines: 2% each feat
Capstone: 5%
WF Great Weapon Aptitude: 2% each rank

Capstone is Barb capstone I assume. If so that means my Human Pali can get no more than 6% chance to happen. That is not worth 3 feats. The KotC splash damage is very situational and my splash build will not get the WoG damage.

I may have to rethink this alt.

[SteeleTrueheart]

On a side note a vorpal two-handed weapon and supreme cleave (hits ALL mobs within your weapon radius) work rather nicely on quests like sins of attrition where you are constantly surrounded by a lot of high hit point mobs.

Cleave and supreme cleave have separate cool downs do they not? They might be better feat alternatives to the THF feats.

[Talesin]

Cleave and supreme cleave have separate cool downs do they not? They might be better feat alternatives to the THF feats.

I know that cleave and supreme cleave are on seperate timers... I would assume great cleave is on a seperate timer as well.

That being said, because the animation breaks up your attack chain and is actually fairly slow using cleave seems to be only useful for spamming weapon effects like banishment, disruption, vorpal etc.

Also Cleave and Great Cleave only efffect a certain amount of mobs in your range (I forget the numbers) whereas supreme cleave effects ALL monsters within range.

Supreme Cleave is only available to Frenzied Berserkers and has the side effect of causing minor damage to you as well.

</end derailment>

[emptysands]

Bladesworn Transformation

I've been meaning to ask - does LOH or Reconstruct work though Bladesworn?

" You have lost your spellcasting ability. You have immunity to critical hits and sneak attacks, but cannot be healed by healing spells."