A Solid Warforged Sorcerer Build

[tinyelvis]

.......
You might have noticed that orthons have started auto-dying when flesh to stoned (this seems sporadic, though, so it might have been a bug and/or been fixed)...

They added eventual death to stoned orthons because you used to be able to stone and forget. Now, you stone em and they eventually drop dead so new ones can appear. This ai change was added to charms in some areas too (see shipment).

Web is a great spell, and if you want to web the dudes that is cool. However, stoning some orthons and letting others get killed by melee is good way to insure that main tank maintains aggro. Occasionally, melees peel off main battle to fight orthons. I have never found the orthons to be a threat, stoned or otherwise. Besides webbing, then exhausting each one and keeping them enfeebled seems to be a headache to me. Enfeeble lasts such a short amount of time anymore.

[MrCow]

Ray of Enfeeblemen - 8DC

This spell is not subject to any saving throw, and thus has no DC.

[Junts]

They added eventual death to stoned orthons because you used to be able to stone and forget. Now, you stone em and they eventually drop dead so new ones can appear. This ai change was added to charms in some areas too (see shipment).

Web is a great spell, and if you want to web the dudes that is cool. However, stoning some orthons and letting others get killed by melee is good way to insure that main tank maintains aggro. Occasionally, melees peel off main battle to fight orthons. I have never found the orthons to be a threat, stoned or otherwise. Besides webbing, then exhausting each one and keeping them enfeebled seems to be a headache to me. Enfeeble lasts such a short amount of time anymore.

Having your dps peel off horoth is a terrible idea; if you're going to have a maintank build aggro, they should do it all at once prior to suulomades' entrance, when there are relatively few orthons present. The dps should not go in until there's no way they'll pull aggro for the rest of horoth's hp bar, and not back out afterwords. Minimizing the amount of time large quantities of orthons and suulomades are present is by far the best path.

1 person to control suulomades and 1-2 others for orthon cntrol should leave the rest of the raid and the melees to focus on ending pt 3 as quickly as possible.

[bobbryan2]

-Ray of Enfeeblemen - 8DC

Interesting.

You forgot to include how much DC he's missing on solid fog, waves of exhaustion and enervation as well.

[ddoer]

This is not a 'solid' wf sorceror build .. its a marginal, crappy one that will make most of its groupmates angry.

(Right now my character is level 12, so it has not been tested thoroughly in anything past Gianthold.)

from his replies, the OP is obviously not looking for comment. so i don't talk about his build in details. In short, I think it's not a "solid" build and have lots of room for improvement.

One last thing. Is an 18 constitution really necessary on a warforge? I mean even on my Drow caster I often let my hit points drop to below 100 pts before healing since enemy damage is soo low now in Mod 9.

if one goes for quicken (and keep it always on) for reliable self-healing, high con is not too necessarily.

Another benefit of high con, other than higher HP, is better concentration. For those who don't keep quicken always on all the time (i.e. 99.9% of casters), high concentration helps us to pass concentration check. with 57 concentration, you could guarantee success in concentration check for an incoming damage of 43 (if i recall it right, or +1/-1) when using heal scroll. Most of the mobs do not make a damage of 43+. Quicken is for situational use to me

[Junts]

One last thing. Is an 18 constitution really necessary on a warforge? I mean even on my Drow caster I often let my hit points drop to below 100 pts before healing since enemy damage is soo low now in Mod 9.

The difference between your caster and a wf caster who can be trusted to kite Suulomades during ToD with no babysitter.


HP is a tool, if you have it you can use it to your advantage by engaging in higher risk, higher reward tactics than may be appropriate for a drow with half the hit ponits. Its all well and good to say that if you know what you're doing you can avoid having aggro and/or taking damage .. and its certainly true. But the ability to withstand aggro and damage permits you to not spend all your time avoiding those things and instead, when its called for, do what gets the quest done best.

The damage in mod9 is only low if you run short groups and/or low difficulties; full groups on hard and elite and its quite regular for the orthons to do up to 60-70 a swing. Mob damage output is significantly impacted by dungeon scaling, and having hit points lets you do pretty much anything you want. A 550 hit point (my human will have 510, so I'm underselling wf here) quicken-reconstructing wf sorceror with stoneskin, displacement, haste and all the other defensive buffs out there is pretty much the most immortal character on DDO. If you can't think of how that might be something you can use to your advantage, you aren't very creative.

[Junts]

from his replies, the OP is obviously not looking for comment. so i don't talk about his build in details. In short, I think it's not a "solid" build and have lots of room for improvement.




if one goes for quicken (and keep it always on) for reliable self-healing, high con is not too necessarily.

Another benefit of high con, other than higher HP, is better concentration. For those who don't keep quicken always on all the time (i.e. 99.9% of casters), high concentration helps us to pass concentration check. with 57 concentration, you could guarantee success in concentration check for an incoming damage of 43 (if i recall it right, or +1/-1) when using heal scroll. Most of the mobs do not make a damage of 43+. Quicken is for situational use to me

No, the OP posted this as though it were a good build for a beginner wf caster to try and so indicates the concept in his initial post, but significant parts of his rationale are flawed and give people the exact wrong impression about what's required to be a good warforged caster. A guide to a beginner wf caster build should be posted by someone like Sim or MrCow who are, in fact, good warforged sorcerors with extensive experience. Anything with spell points, a heavy fort item, elemental mani enhancements and firewall can be a successful caster through gianthold content; it's not a gauge of anything.

You barely need a pulse to play a sorc at those levels effectively, in fact, you can play badly and groups will work around it and spamheal you and still continue to use you as the main offense and give you the impression you're playing well, simply because firewall is so good between 8 and 13.

[Shade]

And unfortunately the forums still lack a "solid" WF Sorc build.

Any sorc with half a brain understands you need heighten and web. This is just very simple and basic stuff.

There is no substitute for it. You cannot name another cc spell in the game that has equal features:
AoE
Persistant
Ignores Spell Resistance
Long Duration (1min at 20)

Otherwise its a solid build, just needs 2 simple corretions:

Remove:
Blur (lol garbage when you have 2500+ SP and 4minuit displacement at your disposal)
Force of Personality (will saves are almost non-existant in endgame.. And for a high will save base class, what a waste)

Get:
Web
Heighten

[Xykal]

I have to say that I'm extremely disappointed with the tone of the responses in this thread. Once again "I'm leeter than you OMG noob" rules over basic humanity and basic human interaction.

Constructive criticism does not have to be worded in such a way as to make the OP seem stupid and the critic seem like God's gift.

[tinyelvis]

I have to say that I'm extremely disappointed with the tone of the responses in this thread. Once again "I'm leeter than you OMG noob" rules over basic humanity and basic human interaction.

Constructive criticism does not have to be worded in such a way as to make the OP seem stupid and the critic seem like God's gift.

I agree, sometimes people go too far with criticisms. Implying that a forum contributor is inhumane with sub human interaction skills makes them look pretty stupid or worse and makes you appear to be God's gift for pronouncing it.

Its interesting how people usually take the "I want you to stop, but its ok for me to do it" attitude.

[tinyelvis]

The difference between your caster and a wf caster who can be trusted to kite Suulomades during ToD with no babysitter.

I am guessing you are still pretty new to the raid or at least are not aware of current tactics. Anyone with jump can easily kite Suuly (regardless of hitpoints and baby sitter). My caster also kites the shadow devils. With all due respect, I don't think you yet understand that squishy is a play style.

A high save is a tool, if you have it you can use it to your advantage by engaging in higher risk, higher reward tactics than may be appropriate for a toon with 5- 10% more hit ponits. Its all well and good to say that if you know what you're doing you can avoid having aggro and/or taking damage .. and its certainly true. But the ability to withstand aggro and damage permits you to not spend all your time avoiding those things and instead, when its called for, do what gets the quest done best.

The changed statement is now closer to the truth. Now the original statement may be true for other people with game play styles different from yours. Just because you dont understand does not make it wrong. The fact that you have to rediculously underestimate the hitpoints of a toon should set off warning bells in your head.

The damage in mod9 is only low if you run short groups and/or low difficulties; full groups on hard and elite and its quite regular for the orthons to do up to 60-70 a swing.

Yes thats if you get into melee, and I claim that is low. There is no danger of death before I kill it or otherwise neutralize it. Rarely, however, do I permit anything to melee me. The vast majority of mobs that do this damage and get this close are dancing before they get one slow animated swing off. This means ranged attacks (specifically AOE spell type) are the biggest danger.

Mob damage output is significantly impacted by dungeon scaling, and having hit points lets you do pretty much anything you want. A 550 hit point (my human will have 510, so I'm underselling wf here) quicken-reconstructing wf sorceror with stoneskin, displacement, haste and all the other defensive buffs out there is pretty much the most immortal character on DDO. If you can't think of how that might be something you can use to your advantage, you aren't very creative.

You are correct, it takes no imagination to imagine being commanded for 2 minutes, ten hits in as many seconds at 60 damage per will burn thru those points.

It would be useful for the community if you would outline the extra enhancements, feats, and loot you need to hit 550 hps.

[tinyelvis]

And unfortunately the forums still lack a "solid" WF Sorc build.

Any sorc with half a brain understands you need heighten and web. This is just very simple and basic stuff.

There is no substitute for it. You cannot name another cc spell in the game that has equal features:
AoE
Persistant
Ignores Spell Resistance
Long Duration (1min at 20)

Not detracting from web which is a great spell, especially when you consider some important points you left out (like ability to perform in highest content like end raid where will based enchantments fail). I know there is a lot of room for subjectivity here, but imo there are a couple of spells, including a double enchantment focus Dancing ball that beat it out of the top spot.

AOE
Persistant
Spell resistance is a joke for any well built caster
Long Duration (up to 2 min 30)
Best success rate in game over most end content.

[Hokonoso]

this is a solid build, i'd say 99% of people lvl 20 that only run end game raids for completions never set foot in anything over normal. i mean seriously, why do a raid over normal? who cares if it drops tomes more often, eventually you get them all anyways, some people are very patient and just don't care to make things harder since all they really want is 20 40 and 60 completions.

sure there are some quirks in his build, but it's still solid nonetheless, i'd definitely throw in heighten myself since imo it's the most underrated meta out there, hell i'd drop extend 15 times over before not getting heighten cause seriously, who cares if those melees get a longer haste? also i'd never get rage as i just don't care bout the melee enough, halt undead imo is the best spell in the game (i like killing undead primarily as it makes me feel special :P). but other than those things i'd still call it a solid build that fits a certain (the OPs) playstyle. any new person who wants to make a WF sorc will read the other replies and thus be able to make a toon that fits their playstyle based on that.

[Junts]

It would be useful for the community if you would outline the extra enhancements, feats, and loot you need to hit 550 hps.

New to the raid? We did the first American elite completion and run it on hard pretty much daily. No, I'm not new to the raid, but having a .. how much credit do you want your drow to get? 350? hp character tank something that chains and does 70-100 damage per melee swing is not an advisable course. Yeah, you're fine initially, but should you get chained and/or an orthon teleport in front of you and block you, you're going to get hammered. Die? Not necessarily. Is it a risk worth taking? not really

as far as enhancements/etc required for 510 on a human:

16 base con
1x +3 constitution tome
1x Litany of the dead
1x Thamor's ring
1x shroud +2 constitution (can be on ring or sceptre, +2 cha goes on the other of those two)
2x racial toughness enhancements
1x rage
1x yugoloth constitution pot
1x minos legens
1x shroud 45 hp item

that's 507. A wf with 3 more constitution available and up to 2 more racial toughnesses will go higher.

[SimVerg]

New to the raid? We did the first American elite completion and run it on hard pretty much daily. No, I'm not new to the raid, but having a .. how much credit do you want your drow to get? 350? hp character tank something that chains and does 70-100 damage per melee swing is not an advisable course. Yeah, you're fine initially, but should you get chained and/or an orthon teleport in front of you and block you, you're going to get hammered. Die? Not necessarily. Is it a risk worth taking? not really

Maybe they handle Suulo like the Koreans?

[Junts]

Not detracting from web which is a great spell, especially when you consider some important points you left out (like ability to perform in highest content like end raid where will based enchantments fail). I know there is a lot of room for subjectivity here, but imo there are a couple of spells, including a double enchantment focus Dancing ball that beat it out of the top spot.

AOE
Persistant
Spell resistance is a joke for any well built caster
Long Duration (up to 2 min 30)
Best success rate in game over most end content.

Most endgame content? You mean a spell which mobs are immune to in:

prey on the hunter
stealer of souls
hound of xoriat
tower of despair
(effectively all the rest of amrath)

is your idea of works in most endgame content?

hell, web works better in monestary

[Junts]

Maybe they handle Suulo like the Koreans?

rofl


That's fair.

[tinyelvis]

Most endgame content? You mean a spell which mobs are immune to in:

prey on the hunter
stealer of souls
hound of xoriat
tower of despair
(effectively all the rest of amrath)

is your idea of works in most endgame content?

hell, web works better in monestary

I was hoping you would show us how you get your 520 hps. This wasnt the typical incredible exaggeration because you have no real defense of your point of view was it? This would be more useful than silly comments.

End game content is certainly subjective. You seem to ignore all the end game content that enchantments work on (essentially most of them). I think your comments here are just silly. Would be like me claiming you stupidly use fire wall and kite on devils and orthons just because you suggested it in other venues.

End Game content where enchantments work better than most other spells on all levels:
A new invasion (19)
Genesis Point (19)
Sins of Attrition (19)
Weapon Shipment (19)
Wrath of Flame (19)
The vast majority of the battlefield slayer area

Enchantments not too useful in these areas, however, flesh to stone works great
Tower of Despair (20)
Bastion of Power (19)

Of the seven highest level quests in the game, five of them and the slayer area are incredibly easy with enchantments. So much so, that the designers decided to further nerf sorcs post Mod 9 who play with this style of play (odd they found the time to do this but no time to fix things like capstone). I didnt notice them nerfing your play style. Further nerfs to the enchantment play style are predicted to come.

All lower level quest (essentially everything pre mod 9), can easily be handled with many many play style (enchantment included). It is not even essential to specialize to be uber effective. For example, in monestary an enchanter could say use wail of the banshee to amazing effect or flesh to stone in prey or firewall on sorjek. Not to mention everyone has a polar ray, cone of cold, web........

Do I need to go further down the list of end game quest to demonstrate your miopic silliness?

[Junts]

I was hoping you would show us how you get your 520 hps. This wasnt the typical incredible exaggeration because you have no real defense of your point of view was it? This would be more useful than silly comments.

End game content is certainly subjective. You seem to ignore all the end game content that enchantments work on (essentially most of them). I think your comments here are just silly. Would be like me claiming you stupidly use fire wall and kite on devils and orthons just because you suggested it in other venues.

End Game content where enchantments work better than most other spells on all levels:
A new invasion (19)
Genesis Point (19)
Sins of Attrition (19)
Weapon Shipment (19)
Wrath of Flame (19)
The vast majority of the battlefield slayer area

Enchantments not too useful in these areas, however, flesh to stone works great
Tower of Despair (20)
Bastion of Power (19)

Of the seven highest level quests in the game, five of them and the slayer area are incredibly easy with enchantments. So much so, that the designers decided to further nerf sorcs post Mod 9 who play with this style of play (odd they found the time to do this but no time to fix things like capstone). I didnt notice them nerfing your play style. Further nerfs to the enchantment play style are predicted to come.

All lower level quest (essentially everything pre mod 9), can easily be handled with many many play style (enchantment included). It is not even essential to specialize to be uber effective. For example, in monestary an enchanter could say use wail of the banshee to amazing effect or flesh to stone in prey or firewall on sorjek. Not to mention everyone has a polar ray, cone of cold, web........

Do I need to go further down the list of end game quest to demonstrate your miopic silliness?

Go 3 posts up for how my human (base 16 con) will get to 510 .. considering a wf can start with 4 more constitution than that, it would be quite easy for a similarly-geared wf to attain a 550.

[tinyelvis]

New to the raid? We did the first American elite completion and run it on hard pretty much daily. No, I'm not new to the raid, but having a .. how much credit do you want your drow to get? 350? hp character tank something that chains and does 70-100 damage per melee swing is not an advisable course. Yeah, you're fine initially, but should you get chained and/or an orthon teleport in front of you and block you, you're going to get hammered. Die? Not necessarily. Is it a risk worth taking? not really

as far as enhancements/etc required for 510 on a human:

16 base con
1x +3 constitution tome
1x Litany of the dead
1x Thamor's ring
1x shroud +2 constitution (can be on ring or sceptre, +2 cha goes on the other of those two)
2x racial toughness enhancements
1x rage
1x yugoloth constitution pot
1x minos legens
1x shroud 45 hp item

that's 507. A wf with 3 more constitution available and up to 2 more racial toughnesses will go higher.

mistaken post