Best 8th lvl spell?

[tinyelvis]

first person lol. Maybe you yourself never ever played any of the new content?

All the saves aren't so insane. Infact solo'ing on normal, I almost never do energy drain first.. Not for fort save spells like wial of the banshee and not for trap the soul, and they both work fine - 75%+ or higher. My DC's are very high tho.

Even in full groups. energy draining everything is not nesssasary. Getting devils with a trap the soul and no energy drain works fine, over 50%. Tiefling warriors, very high, about 80%. Tiefling casters - very low fort save, so a straight up wail of finger of death almost always work, no energy drain.

Use it to ensure success? yea sometimes on hard/elite vs tough mobs. But it really depends on the target. Air elementals yea, they got very high will saves. Tieflings, Trolls, nah.

You comments are usually confusing and lack logic. In one sentence you say almost never in next you say 75%. Then you go on to say you have 50/50 success in a later sentence. Which is it? Either way this contradicts the OP who implies that he does not need energy drain.

It lands just fine without enervate in the Shavarath content.

My comment still stands. He is the first person that I have read who reported Trap the Soul landing across the board in Shavarath without the need for level drain. I know this is an exaggeration. I have a double enchantment focus and I dont always land will based enchantment effects.

Here is another comment you made concerning the spell trap the soul with yet a fourth experience, implying that energy then trap the soul is the way to go.

Excellent spells, works great in new content.
Energy drain + Trap the soul = 95% chance of instant death for basicly any mob in new content, included devils with deathward.

Again you point to using energy drain first as I imply. Has your own experience changed or did the voice in your head tell you something different. Since you comments seem emotionally based and lack any consistency, I usually ignore most of what you write.

[Shade]

You comments are usually confusing and lack logic. In one sentence you say almost never in next you say 75%. Then you go on to say you have 50/50 success in a later sentence. Which is it? Either way this contradicts the OP who implies that he does not need energy drain.

Pfft this is why I ignore most of what you write. My post is 100% logical and you just lack basic reading comprehension. The difference percentages are for different monsters, that was quite clear.

It doesn't contridict that you need energry drain at all. It's saying for some monsters you do, for others you do not.

Plus this arguement is just plain stupid in the first place. Why are you argueing a great spell is not worth having. You have no counter arguement for what spell to take in its place, so your just argueing for the sake of nothing. Have a purpose or stop trolling.

[tinyelvis]

Pfft this is why I ignore most of what you write. My post is 100% logical and you just lack basic reading comprehension. The difference percentages are for different monsters, that was quite clear.

It doesn't contridict that you need energry drain at all. It's saying for some monsters you do, for others you do not.

Plus this arguement is just plain stupid in the first place. Why are you argueing a great spell is not worth having. You have no counter arguement for what spell to take in its place, so your just argueing for the sake of nothing. Have a purpose or stop trolling.

I am not arguing its not worth having. Where did i make that claim? I mearly pointed out if you are gonna make a level drain before a spell why not use flesh to stone or irresistible dance? Usually when people in forums make dumb statements and are too stubborn to admit it they often make up ridiculous things and attribute them to the person who called them out.

For example, you imply that level drain is unnecessary.

I almost never do energy drain first.

Then go on to quote in the same reply that you miss up to 50% of the time.

Getting devils with a trap the soul and no energy drain works fine, over 50%.

Which is it? Or perhaps is this statement that you made correct.

Energy drain + Trap the soul = 95% chance of instant death for basicly any mob in new content, included devils with deathward.

Now, I suppose the above statement does not neccessarily imply you need level drain, but thats how I took it when you wrote it. So you can see why i might find your comments inconsistent and confused. From your own words, you have stated level drain is not needed, needed 50% of time, and perhaps always needed. You pretty much covered every option. On the other hand I said,

That is not to say that this spell is not some hidden wonder. I certainly would not call anyone a fool for using it, especially given the other poor options out there.

you could just cast a level drain on it and flesh to stone it for less mana, less fuss, and same effective result.

Perhaps you should stop lying or misrepresenting other peoples comments, and concentrate on forming a consistent intelligent post.

[Impulse101]

Elvis, I may be seeing things, but from shade's post:
-
50% + success rate without level drain.

90% + Success rate with level drain.

Shade chooses to not use level drain unless it is on hard/elite against tough monsters.
-
I've found nothing confusing about the post. Very opinionated and lacking prethought and prepared mathematical evidence, only anecdotal. But not confusing.

[tinyelvis]

Elvis, I may be seeing things, but from shade's post:
-
50% + success rate without level drain.

90% + Success rate with level drain.

Shade chooses to not use level drain unless it is on hard/elite against tough monsters.
-
I've found nothing confusing about the post. Very opinionated and lacking prethought and prepared mathematical evidence, only anecdotal. But not confusing.

Ok, if what you quoted was all that he wrote in his reply, I see your point. Howver, you fail to consider other comments like the one where he states he almost always succeeds without level drain. But for the sake of argument, lets say your interpretation is correct. How is this statement by me,

All others claim a level drain is first needed to insure success.

In conflict with,

50% + success rate without level drain.

90% + Success rate with level drain.

The answer is its not. Because to insure success, a level drain is needed. At least this is what everyone else has reported up to the one poster in this thread. At the very least, shade goes on in his post to report essentially behavior completely consistent with my comment. Then claims I am arguing for the sake of argument.

The fact is, in this thread, this is the first time I have heard anyone state they have found a spell that they can cast (without double focus) and land without level drain and any substantial risk of failure. If true, that is important.

[ddoer]

Elvis, I may be seeing things, but from shade's post:
-
50% + success rate without level drain.

90% + Success rate with level drain.

Shade chooses to not use level drain unless it is on hard/elite against tough monsters.
-
I've found nothing confusing about the post. Very opinionated and lacking prethought and prepared mathematical evidence, only anecdotal. But not confusing.

I fail to extract useful information from Shade's post as well. Given that Shade's build is obviously uber (as same as many forum people's build), we need more information:

• which quest on which level against which type of mob? it's the most useful if you say CR19 Orthon, 50% successful without ED
• what's the DC of your spell when you do the test. (or details about your build) most ppl do not have the 1-min pots to boost their cha to 49 (?)
• and do you come up the figure with gut feeling or you have really done a test.

in generally, without the above information, posts in forum do not help me too much. And I could only conclude they are uber forum build.