Best 8th lvl spell?

[Majere_Aumar]

I just hit 16 and will be here a while.....whats the most useful lvl 8?

I enjoy nuking and I'm temped by polar ray.....is it worth it, or go cc?

[Junts]

lv 8 cc spells are poor; polar ray is a nuke spell with no save, so its effective for single target nuking if you're a fire/cold build .. get telvi's sash from amrath though.

[tinyelvis]

After polar ray, get

Ottos dance
Mass charm can be decent if you double focus enchantment.

Nothing special in ninth level either. Level drain is ok. Other than that new spells are pretty lame with many lower level spells doing as well or outperforming them. On the bright side, the lame spells are much better than the end game loot or capstone.

[winsom]

Energy Drain can be a good "damage" spell as well as a debuff. Just be sure you aim the drain(s) at something before it has taken damage because your target only loses HP due to negative levels if the drain would lower the creatue's maximum hit points below it's current hit points.

i.e. It takes my wizard 15 casts of Chain Missiles to kill a Frost Giant Hunter. If I first energy drain a Frost Giant Hunter two times then I only need 5 Chain Missle spells to kill it. The negative levels significantly lower the giant's maximum HP.

[tinyelvis]

Energy Drain can be a good "damage" spell as well as a debuff. Just be sure you aim the drain(s) at something before it has taken damage because the hit points your target loses are from it's maximum possible. Current Hit Points get lowered to match Maximum HP when the maximum drops below the current threshhold.

i.e. It takes my wizard 15 casts of Chain Missiles to kill a Frost Giant Hunter. If I first energy drain a Frost Giant Hunter two times I only need 5 Chain Missle spells to kill it. The drains significantly lower the giant's maximum HP.

That seems darn inefficient. Just enervate once (25 pts) and flesh to stone (50 pts) for a total of 70 points. Your approach uses level drain twice (100) plus 5 chain missiles (100 - 300 pts) for a total of 2 to 400 mana. If you wanted to kill him with spells just use 2 - 3 scorching rays for a cost of around 100 to 150. Dont get me wrong, level drain is OK, but the problem with level drain is similar to the problem with almost everything new associated with Mod 9, it does not work any better (and in many cases worse) than lower level stuff we already have. Its like someone with almost no knowledge of the game setup the new spells and high end items. Why is that?

Level Drain: Drains 2 to 8 levels for a cost of 50
Enervation : Drains 1 to 4 levels for a cost of 25

Only if you have poor spell penetration is the high level spell better than two casts of the low level spell. No increased range, no increased area of effect, and no increase in power/mana use. I would trade all ninth level spells for a working capstone. Heck the best end game item for my toon is a bard item (shiona's pendant). Why would any knowledgable person feel it was important to put superior potency VI on a bard necklace?

[Anneliese]

I would go with

- Polar Ray (nice irresist. damage if you can boost it)

- Mass Charm (go forth minions )

- Ottos Dance (for Mod 9 content..their saves are incredible, their SR is beatable)


On the subject of level 9 spells:

I absolutely love Wail of the Banshee! Gather mobs in one spot, jump above them, (nearly) all die
Granted, it sucks in mod9 due to saves, but in mod1-8 content it rocks.

[MrCow]

Polar Ray and Otto's Irresistable are the two that will typically find lots of use. The third 8th level spell is more of a grab-bag. Personally, I went for the bank breaking Trap the Soul.

[ddoer]

Polar Ray, Otto Irresistible dance, and Mass Charm Monster are my choice.

[Shade]

IMO Ottos is leaps and bounds ahead of any others. Especially for non-maxed out casters.. As in the new content you will have allot of trouble landing spells - an ottos is a perfect unresistable (for no/low SR mobs - which is most) CC.

Polar Ray is useful in some liminited amount of situations. Great damage and no save, but it's a single target nuke.. Not a domain sorcs should specialize in much.

Trap the Souls is often the most effective insta kill spell in the game.. Works thru deathward.. But the components are insanely expensive and time consuming to make, making it pretty well impossible to use by most mere mortals on any regular basis.

[tinyelvis]

IMO .......................
Polar Ray is useful in some liminited amount of situations. .........................

And the Nobel Prize for understatements of the year goes to.....

Trap the Souls is often the most effective insta kill spell in the game.. Works thru deathward.. But the components are insanely expensive and time consuming to make, making it pretty well impossible to use by most mere mortals on any regular basis.

I don't understand the sudden popularity of this spell. If you have a weed in your lawn you want to get rid of, you go to Wal mart and buy a bottle of Ortho Weed-b-gon. Sure you can hit up the local University to build you a special weed incinerating device at a cost of 100's of thousands of dollars.

Or, you could just cast a level drain on it and flesh to stone it for less mana, less fuss, and same effective result.

[ddoer]

I don't understand the sudden popularity of this spell. If you have a weed in your lawn you want to get rid of, you go to Wal mart and buy a bottle of Ortho Weed-b-gon. Sure you can hit up the local University to build you a special weed incinerating device at a cost of 100's of thousands of dollars.

Or, you could just cast a level drain on it and flesh to stone it for less mana, less fuss, and same effective result.

i guess not too many casters other than Shade have the luxury to use TTS regularly, so i suppose it not a popular spell. But I imagine in some cases, such as when 2 air elementals are approaching, you want to kill them with a will-save based spell. Without TTS, there is no options except disco-ball + firewall in my mind.

Does anyone know if heightened Hypnotism work in the new content, especially for stopping the air elementals in new invasion?

[tinyelvis]

i guess not too many casters other than Shade have the luxury to use TTS regularly, so i suppose it not a popular spell. But I imagine in some cases, such as when 2 air elementals are approaching, you want to kill them with a will-save based spell. Without TTS, there is no options except disco-ball + firewall in my mind.

Does anyone know if heightened Hypnotism work in the new content, especially for stopping the air elementals in new invasion?

The event .....Air elemental(s) attack:
The actions taken.......Level drain/trap the soul vs. Level drain/Finger of Death
The result ...... Air elemental(s) neutralized.

Of course there are many other ways involving lower level spells to do this. Some of which may even be better approaches. Why would hypno be a better option than mass charm or dancing ball? Air elementals are annoying, and getting knocked down by one is just about the only way for a competent caster to die in new invasion. However, I don't lose any sleep over them.

[MrCow]

The event .....Air elemental(s) attack:
The actions taken.......Level drain/trap the soul vs. Level drain/Finger of Death
The result ...... Air elemental(s) neutralized.

Bad example. Air elementals in the high-end of DDO have HD that exceeds the limitations of Trap the Soul (30 HD max).

[Shade]

Bad example. Air elementals in the high-end of DDO have HD that exceeds the limitations of Trap the Soul (30 HD max).

Actually all the ones i've seen in the new content don't pass the 30 HD limit. Only ones that im aware of that do are the Reaver raid ones.

2 elementals coming straight for you gives you only time to kill 1 with a energy drain + FoD. Having trap the soul rdy gives you a shot at killing the 2nd one too.

Rarely matters, but it's something.

There are much superioer cases.. Running with the devils is a 1 quests wher ethe spell is particularly effective ..
Being the Eladrin cast mass deathward very fast, and are immune to pertrifcition.. Trap the soul is often the only option - especially for the yellow name that heals incredibly fast on elite making him near impossible to nuke.

Yea it's a very situtional spell, but it's place.

[Averroes]

I don't understand the sudden popularity of this spell. If you have a weed in your lawn you want to get rid of, you go to Wal mart and buy a bottle of Ortho Weed-b-gon. Sure you can hit up the local University to build you a special weed incinerating device at a cost of 100's of thousands of dollars.

Or, you could just cast a level drain on it and flesh to stone it for less mana, less fuss, and same effective result.

Trap the Soul is a Will save... It is hugely, vastly, unbelievably more effective than finger or FtS on Orthons, Devils, Giants, and so forth, all of which have much higher fort saves than will saves. It lands just fine without enervate in the Shavarath content.

Unfortunately, IIRC it costs roughly 1250 plat per cast. My sorc has burned through nearly a million plat since mod 9 on spell comps for it, and I don't even play him much... Oh well, I guess we were long overdue for a money sink in this game.

[tinyelvis]

Trap the Soul is a Will save... It is hugely, vastly, unbelievably more effective than finger or FtS on Orthons, Devils, Giants, and so forth, all of which have much higher fort saves than will saves. It lands just fine without enervate in the Shavarath content.

Your the first person in my recollection who has reported this. All others claim a level drain is first needed to insure success. In quests where orthons are not easily dealt with using other methods, a quick level drain followed by flesh to stone = death. In other areas, dance them (no save is better than even a will save).

Unfortunately, IIRC it costs roughly 1250 plat per cast. My sorc has burned through nearly a million plat since mod 9 on spell comps for it, and I don't even play him much... Oh well, I guess we were long overdue for a money sink in this game.

I have not experimented with the spell for the same reason I have not experimented with a spell like merfolks blessing. After investigating its effects and use, I personally found other options. That is not to say that this spell is not some hidden wonder. I certainly would not call anyone a fool for using it, especially given the other poor options out there.

[tinyelvis]

Bad example. Air elementals in the high-end of DDO have HD that exceeds the limitations of Trap the Soul (30 HD max).

I do not think you are correct here, and it is not my example.

[winsom]

That seems darn inefficient. Just enervate once (25 pts) and flesh to stone (50 pts) for a total of 70 points. Your approach uses level drain twice (100) plus 5 chain missiles (100 - 300 pts) for a total of 2 to 400 mana. ?

My example illustrates how 2 Energy Drains did the equivalent damage of 10 casts of chain missiles. 15 casts of a 3rd level spell vs 5 casts of a 3rd level spell after 2 Energy Drains. I spent 100 SP on Drains rather than 320 SP on maximized chain missiles.

The Chain missile spell was for example only -- I used it because chain missile damage is very consistant so I could note the relative ease in making the kill with draining and without draining.

You could substitute in X casts Polar Rays or Scorching Rays or better yet Disintegrate (after giving something -5 on their Fort save due to 2 Drains) and get a similar result.
Our damage spells are best used after the casting of 1 or 2 energy drains because the drains are essentially dealing high amounts of damage when used first (against a monster with very significant Hit Dice/Hit Points), and the drains inflict a penalty on the monster's saves vs. any saving throw-based damage spell.

[Shade]

Your the first person in my recollection who has reported this. All others claim a level drain is first needed to insure success

first person lol. Maybe you yourself never ever played any of the new content?

All the saves aren't so insane. Infact solo'ing on normal, I almost never do energy drain first.. Not for fort save spells like wial of the banshee and not for trap the soul, and they both work fine - 75%+ or higher. My DC's are very high tho.

Even in full groups. energy draining everything is not nesssasary. Getting devils with a trap the soul and no energy drain works fine, over 50%. Tiefling warriors, very high, about 80%. Tiefling casters - very low fort save, so a straight up wail of finger of death almost always work, no energy drain.

Use it to ensure success? yea sometimes on hard/elite vs tough mobs. But it really depends on the target. Air elementals yea, they got very high will saves. Tieflings, Trolls, nah.

[ddoer]

Fight against air elementals in New Invasion is a good example for using trap the soul. From my experience, they can't be reliably FoD'd with just one (or even two) ED on normal. (feel free to say my build is gimp or try it yourself.) not to say u may be knocked down if they get too close. And i prefer to kill em with fw + polar ray. Disco ball should be great but i don't have, and it is slow to cast. I am thinking Mindfog + TtS may rule the air ele.