Which is better now TWF or THF

[Angelus_dead]

I would like to know that. Exalted smite IV with a falcion would be devastation. Can anyone confirm?

Glancing Exalted Smite is unimpressive:
1. Exalted Smite provides a bonus to critical threat and multiplier, but glancing blows never crit.
2. Smite Evil provides a ~40 bonus to physical damage, but physical damage of a glancing blow is reduced to a fraction.

[Bosco]

Glancing Exalted Smite is unimpressive:
1. Exalted Smite provides a bonus to critical threat and multiplier, but glancing blows never crit.
2. Smite Evil provides a ~40 bonus to physical damage, but physical damage of a glancing blow is reduced to a fraction.

That would make sense. I should have taken a second to think about it. Smite evil and exalted smite aren't a secondary effect. Doh.

[lexinator]

THF + High STR = the way to go.... That is unless they decide that it is now too powerfull and undo their changes.... At which point I will just go back to my Ranger, lol. I am covered either way.

At this time though, THF is a lot more damage than TWF.

You bypass almost all DR, and glancing blows can take out trash mobs that you didn't even know were hiding behind your target.

Nothing like hitting Trip and watching 5 mobs go down. Lol, our Cleric ended up giving up healing and went into BB spam mode because stuff was either dead, tripped, or cursed and not able to hit anyone.

[transtemporal]

At this time though, THF is a lot more damage than TWF.

What are you basing this statement on lexinator?

[lexinator]

What are you basing this statement on lexinator?

Simple observation really. I have a TWF user and a THF user. Since this patch hit, my THF outkills TWF users. This has rarely happened before, but is happening often now.

I have also spoken with friends and they noticed this as well. Good thing too, THF needed its time in the sun.

At least for the Barbarian, the damage has increased a lot this patch. Now the class lives up to it's name.

[Roman]

THF is clearly superior, and the best part is

• You only need half the weapons talking up bank and pack space
• You need half the ingredients for crafting
• You don't need to worry about a secondary stat like dex to get the feats
• You don't suffer a to-hit penalty like those TWF'ers
• You dont suffer half dmg from off hand attacks like TWF'ers
• All that plus glancing blows and glancing procs to boot!

It's the latest trend, get all the benefts for half the effort! Yay THF!

[BlackSteel]

THF is clearly superior, and the best part is

• You only need half the weapons talking up bank and pack space
• You need half the ingredients for crafting
• You don't need to worry about a secondary stat like dex to get the feats
• You don't suffer a to-hit penalty like those TWF'ers
• You dont suffer half dmg from off hand attacks like TWF'ers
• All that plus glancing blows and glancing procs to boot!

It's the latest trend, get all the benefts for half the effort! Yay THF!

aside from crafting two weapons the rest of it is trivial

[Eddster]

aside from crafting two weapons the rest of it is trivial

I don't know, glancing blows proccing trip, lightning, curse, sunder, and other great effects is simply phenomenal.

That alone puts THF ahead of TWF, and not having to spend the time to make and upgrade two weapons is just gravy.

Plus having a higher to hit than TWF users makes killing some deadly mobs a cakewalk.

Also don't forget that as a THF user, you will be getting more of your STR bonus to damage, and PA does 2X the damage as well.

This quickly adds up to a lot of damage.

Not a lot of TWF users even use PA, but as a THF you can, and with your STR mod bonus you will be doing some SICK damage.

[Blazer]

Not a lot of TWF users even use PA...

Really?

[Osharan_Tregarth]

I don't know, glancing blows proccing trip, lightning, curse, sunder, and other great effects is simply phenomenal.

That alone puts THF ahead of TWF, and not having to spend the time to make and upgrade two weapons is just gravy.

Plus having a higher to hit than TWF users makes killing some deadly mobs a cakewalk.

Also don't forget that as a THF user, you will be getting more of your STR bonus to damage, and PA does 2X the damage as well.

This quickly adds up to a lot of damage.

Not a lot of TWF users even use PA, but as a THF you can, and with your STR mod bonus you will be doing some SICK damage.

Really?

No. Every single twf'ing character I have, or people that I know has, uses power attack.

[Eddster]

Really?

Just looking at some of the TWF builds out there. Not many have PA.

Also a TWF user with PA only does 5 extra damage per hit and loses 5 to hit from every attack, where as a THF user does 10 extra per hit and still only loses 5, unless they are Warforged, then the differenceis even higher.

Most Rangers take CE over PA.

Fighters may take it due to it being a free feat and all, but Rangers, Paladins, Bards, Rogues usually do not have it.

I have also asked multiple people on their feat choices and found that those that take the TWF line, usually do not take PA because they are either already taking a large to hit loss, or simply do not have enough feats.

Like i said, not a lot of TWF users have PA.

[Angelus_dead]

Just looking at some of the TWF builds out there. Not many have PA.

That is extremely untrue.

Also a TWF user with PA only does 5 extra damage per hit and loses 5 to hit from every attack, where as a THF user does 10 extra per hit and still only loses 5, unless they are Warforged, then the differenceis even higher.

And yet the TWF guy is making two or more attacks in the time it takes the THF to do one... so 5+5 = what?

Most Rangers take CE over PA.

That is so false that you really are humiliating yourself.

[Blazer]

No. Every single twf'ing character I have, or people that I know has, uses power attack.

Agreed, same here.

Just looking at some of the TWF builds out there. Not many have PA.

Are you looking at many of the TWF builds on these forums? Nearly all, if not all, have PA.

Most Rangers take CE over PA.

Fighters may take it due to it being a free feat and all, but Rangers, Paladins, Bards, Rogues usually do not have it.

I guess we're running in different circles then because all the people I know who play the above classes you've mentioned have PA in their builds. TWF Rangers, especially.

Like i said, not a lot of TWF users have PA.

I think your experience is in the minority. While I hate to ever bring up "Forum Join Date" in a discussion with another poster, I need to ask - is your join date accurate with respect to how long you've been playing DDO? If so, that would explain why you feel this way about PA/TWF.

[Eddster]

Please point me in the dirrection of these builds that use PA.

Aside from the Exploiter, most TWF users I see do not have it.

I run with people in the level 13-14 range and very few TWF users have PA, while all THF users do.
At higher levels this may change, because we now have an extra feat at 18.

[Osharan_Tregarth]

Please point me in the dirrection of these builds that use PA.

Aside from the Exploiter, most TWF users I see do not have it.

I run with people in the level 13-14 range and very few TWF users have PA, while all THF users do.
At higher levels this may change, because we now have an extra feat at 18.

Sure thing. Umm..
There's my dwarf ranger twf'r, with power attack...
Theres my exploiter type build, with power attack(and combat expertise, situational use)
Theres's my twf'ing paladin, with power attack..
Theres's my twf'ing barbarian, with power attack...
There's my original drow dex based ranger, with power attack...
And there's my melee twf'ing favored soul, with power attack...

Most of the builds you see here on the forums are people who are either:
1. experimenting with things
2. new to the game
3. very impressed with their own builds

The people who used to build characters and plan things out, and discuss the finer points of dps build characters don't need to come here any more. Because building dps twf'ing characters is a no-brainer.

You pick a character class.. You pick up the twfing feats.. and you get power attack.

[Mhykke]

Please point me in the dirrection of these builds that use PA.

Aside from the Exploiter, most TWF users I see do not have it.

I run with people in the level 13-14 range and very few TWF users have PA, while all THF users do.
At higher levels this may change, because we now have an extra feat at 18.

Let me try to explain why many more people, including TWF'ers, use power attack, over CE.

A very high percentage of players don't bother too much with trying to get max AC. Many more people prefer damage/dps to high ACs. You won't see a lot of defensive tanks running around the game. Now, if someone is already TWF'ing, and not holding a shield, that's a clue that they're valuing dps over AC. True, they might try to get their AC's up as high as possible while holding 2 weapons, but they're still going for DPS over AC. Those TWF'ers will be using power attack more often than not (in fact, I would guess many more TWF'ers don't even have CE). CE is very situational. More DPS with power attack is favorable everywhere.

[Quikster]

Please point me in the dirrection of these builds that use PA.

Aside from the Exploiter, most TWF users I see do not have it.

I run with people in the level 13-14 range and very few TWF users have PA, while all THF users do.
At higher levels this may change, because we now have an extra feat at 18.

Any twf that has played for a while, and plays end game content should find a way to fit in PA. Most of them have fit it in by lvl 16. Thats why you see so many 2ftr splashes all over the place. Fighter used to be the bomb splash for extra feats, now its monk. The last person I ran with regularly that didnt have PA asked in a group once, "Is it worth giving up Power Critical for Power Attack?" He was booted from group and guild in 20 seconds, its that big of a deal. An extra 15 per crit on a khop, swinging at tempest speed, with ftr or rog haste boost, ummmmmm yeah not many good DPS builds leave that out. Sorry but you just couldnt be more wrong.


BTW is it possible that those 13-14 range players are newbs?

[maddmatt70]

I don't know, glancing blows proccing trip, lightning, curse, sunder, and other great effects is simply phenomenal.

That alone puts THF ahead of TWF, and not having to spend the time to make and upgrade two weapons is just gravy.

Plus having a higher to hit than TWF users makes killing some deadly mobs a cakewalk.

Also don't forget that as a THF user, you will be getting more of your STR bonus to damage, and PA does 2X the damage as well.

This quickly adds up to a lot of damage.

Not a lot of TWF users even use PA, but as a THF you can, and with your STR mod bonus you will be doing some SICK damage.

As these other posters have stated you are incorrect about PA. Nearly all melee builds/characters in DDO have it. It really only makes sense not to have it in a few instances. The two examples that I think it makes sense is the following 1: build which is really tight on feats that is ac or defensive focused. Example is a tempest rogue with monk splash finesse build. 2. Offensive build which is extremely tight on feats - the only example of this which I can think of is a non-warforged 14 paladin/6 ranger knight of the chalice/tempest which chooses extend and khopesh over pa (I still would probably choose pa over extend).

[cforce]

THF was always higher DPS for Barbarians due to their massive strength and power attack enhancements. Since module9 much beter for KoTC Paladins due to how glancing blow procs worked. Fighter was pretty close but I think this patch gives THF the edge, even auto attack.

Auto-attack? I'm not sure -- it seems like there's still a pretty big gap between auto-attack and twitch-based attacks. But, a question: do glancing blows trigger now on both swings when you're twitch-attacking, or only 1 out of 2? Perhaps that closes the gap: auto-attack with glancing blows on 3 out of 4 pulls closer to twitch attack with 1 out of 2?

(Obviously, if I had someone with GTHF, I'd just go check, but if someone can educate me...)

Anyone have a sense yet for the proc rate of a WF barb with all of the THF enhancements (that don't trigger on every hit)? Last ballpark I heard was about 30%...

[cforce]

Auto-attack? I'm not sure -- it seems like there's still a pretty big gap between auto-attack and twitch-based attacks. But, a question: do glancing blows trigger now on both swings when you're twitch-attacking, or only 1 out of 2? Perhaps that closes the gap: auto-attack with glancing blows on 3 out of 4 pulls closer to twitch attack with 1 out of 2?

(Obviously, if I had someone with GTHF, I'd just go check, but if someone can educate me...)

Never mind this question: found Monkey_Archer's answer in another thread that glancing blows only are on every other attack when twitch-THF'ing.