Which is better now TWF or THF

[Bosco]

For a ranger twf of course. But non rangers is it now worth it to even go twf?

[Angelus_dead]

It's certainly worth it for Rogues, Monks, and 32 point Paladins.

[Bosco]

It's certainly worth it for Rogues, Monks, and 32 point Paladins.

Would you add kensei fighter to that list?

[Lehrman]

It depends on your class, race, and stat allotment. If you are a WF or a Barb, then THF. If a ranger, then TWF. "Better" really has a lot more to do with your playing style. If you like THF more than TWF, then that style is better for you. If its about max damage, well, I think that argument is ongoing and can not comment on which build does the most damage.

[GlassCannon]

For a Warforged Barbarian, THF is definitely the way to go.

I'd say it's Build-Specific.

[Angelus_dead]

Would you add kensei fighter to that list?

Kensei includes features which explicitly give more bonus to THF, and some of them aren't even documented, so I can't say at this time. I'd guess that TWF khopesh is still worth it, but has become less attractive than before.

[Emili]

THF has procs on glancing and a +10 on pa... TWF has two weapons which need not be one of the same at times ...

I.E. non DW trash mobs... may use min II main, vorpal offhand, etc... then on boss Two min II's or a min II main, Lightning II offhand. Basically stating the versitility of TWF still endures on the matter of selecting different weapons to adjust to the mob and your party... some party member wishes you to curse the mob... easily done on a TWF you use an improved cursespewer in your off-hand and your DPS weapon in the main. Stat damaging? Two wounders vs one... do the stat damage procs of wounding/weakening occur on glacing procs? I've yet to test...

I for one am still very much spec'd and geared in TWF - even my main a kensei - on all my melee girls 'cept my barb she still be THF since born...

[Bosco]

It depends on your class, race, and stat allotment. If you are a WF or a Barb, then THF. If a ranger, then TWF. "Better" really has a lot more to do with your playing style. If you like THF more than TWF, then that style is better for you. If its about max damage, well, I think that argument is ongoing and can not comment on which build does the most damage.

I am just trying to get a grip on the new changes and which classes now are better off for saving the twf and dex requirements that go with it.

As for FVS unless you are a wf max damage prob does mean you are forced into twf to max damage. I don't think the speed bonus changes things vs the damage and to hit bonuses they get.

But I am not much of a number cruncher, anyone have a handle on the dps yet for classes or is it too early?

[transtemporal]

Would you add kensei fighter to that list?

Not necessarily. For the classes A_D mentioned, TWF is virtually mandatory in order to get decent DPS from them. Kensei (and frenzied berserker) are different because they actually have specific abilities for two handed weapons that makes it a bit more viable. TWF kensei and frenzied berserker still outperform their THF equivalents but I'm not sure what the current margin is. Its changing from patch to patch atm.

[Bosco]

Not necessarily. For the classes A_D mentioned, TWF is virtually mandatory in order to get decent DPS from them. Kensei (and frenzied berserker) are different because they actually have specific abilities for two handed weapons that makes it a bit more viable. TWF kensei and frenzied berserker still outperform their THF equivalents but I'm not sure what the current margin is. Its changing from patch to patch atm.

Ok guess I will need to flip a coin on those two. But the looks of it, THF is now a major contender even if a slight underdog.

[Shade]

THF was always higher DPS for Barbarians due to their massive strength and power attack enhancements. Since module9 much beter for KoTC Paladins due to how glancing blow procs worked. Fighter was pretty close but I think this patch gives THF the edge, even auto attack.
Pre mod9, It was just balanced for auto attack to be a bit lower, around -20%.. But twitch attack gave it a major edge - +40% DPS.

The recent patchs massively increased THF auto attack speed, and amount of glancing blows to make it a pretty much no brainer which style deals more dps now. While twitch attack still increases the swings per minuit to beyond what TWF can attain as twitch doesn't help it much.

The extra procs knight of the chalice, kensai and berserker bring are actually rather marginal. What really makes THF work better for these 3 classes is a combo of things:
Barbarian (FB):
-Massive strength at 150% mod favors THF.
-Vicious damage is a 100% proc chance on glaning blows.
Paladin (Kotc):
- KoTC bonus damage is 100% proc chance on glancing blows.
- Capstone bonus damage is 100% proc chance on glancing blows too.
- This brings them to a total of 14d6 damage on 3 of 4 swings with GTHF.. Massive.
- It works on almost all endgame content. Perhaps in the future when more endgame content this doesn't work on is release, TWF will be better as much of the bonus dice is geared for evil outsiders/undead only.
Fighter (Kensai):
- High strength with power surge at 150% mod favors THF.
- Kensai gives some increase to proc chance.
- A class that gets allot of feats generally can fit in imrpvoed trip and stunning blow - which kensai enhancements, and allows you to proc on glancing blows.. Tripping 3+ mobs at once is pretty sweet.

[Shade]

[COLOR="Plum"]Two wounders vs one... do the stat damage procs of wounding/weakening occur on glacing procs?

Yes. Every effect in the game works on glancing blows. Some are flagged as 100% chance also. So with purely wounders, THF vs TWF stat damage totals aren't far off - THF may even gain an edge when faced with large groups of enemies.
TWF retains the advantage with puncturing tho, as it only apears on piercing weapons, of which there are none for THF.

[transtemporal]

- A class that gets allot of feats generally can fit in imrpvoed trip and stunning blow - which kensai enhancements, and allows you to proc on glancing blows.. Tripping 3+ mobs at once is pretty sweet.

Trip, stunning blow and sunder can proc on glancing blows? I was under the impression that the proc chance was only for weapon effects, not abilities. Has this been confirmed?

[Osharan_Tregarth]

Removed due to not knowing what I was talking about....

[MrCow]

Trip, stunning blow and sunder can proc on glancing blows? I was under the impression that the proc chance was only for weapon effects, not abilities. Has this been confirmed?

Confirmed. If your glancing blow triggers the chance to "spread all weapon effects", that includes trip/sunder/stunning blow across everything the glancing blow hits from your activated ability to trip/sunder/stun.

[Bosco]

Paladin (Kotc):
- KoTC bonus damage is 100% proc chance on glancing blows.
- Capstone bonus damage is 100% proc chance on glancing blows too.
- This brings them to a total of 14d6 damage on 3 of 4 swings with GTHF.. Massive

Awesome info thanks.

[Osharan_Tregarth]

Confirmed. If your glancing blow triggers the chance to "spread all weapon effects", that includes trip/sunder/stunning blow across everything the glancing blow hits from your activated ability to trip/sunder/stun.

heh.. Nice.

I wonder if it's on purpose?

[2xslick]

Could Smite Evil proc multiple times on a glancing blow? If so, to heck with twf and 32 pt builds.

[transtemporal]

Confirmed. If your glancing blow triggers the chance to "spread all weapon effects", that includes trip/sunder/stunning blow across everything the glancing blow hits from your activated ability to trip/sunder/stun.

Awesome! Cheers!

That actually explains a lot. I was running round amrath testing trip last night, both with a one-hander and a greataxe and I couldn't understand why multiple mobs were getting tripped. I thought it was my air guard going off. I'm gonna have to go get a vertigo 10 ga now.

[Bosco]

Could Smite Evil proc multiple times on a glancing blow? If so, to heck with twf and 32 pt builds.

I would like to know that. Exalted smite IV with a falcion would be devastation. Can anyone confirm?