Assassin set: epic fail?

[Draccus]

I don't know enough about other PrE's or their items sets but I wonder if any of them are worse than the assassin set. When I first read about the set, I was pretty excited about it and looked forward to raiding to obtain it. After taking a closer look, I think the set is disappointing at best; an utter, epic failure at worse. After studying it more and more, I'm thinking the designer either had no knowledge of the Assassin PrE or that this set was intentionally designed this way as a cruel joke.

Awanahu's Sash
+6 Con
Proof Against Poison

Whisper Ring
+6 Dex
+1 Exceptional Int

Set Bonus
Bonus to Hit and Damage on Sneak Attacks
20% less threat
Level Drain

Let's look at the set in detail, color coded for green for good implementation, yellow for a questionable implementation, and red for poor implementation.

+6 Con - This is fine. Many of us already have +6 Con on our belt and the hp's replenish when the belt is removed for using a Planar Gird.
Proof Against Poison - Considering that one of the benefits of the Assassin PrE is that you get improved saves against poison, this effect is either not needed or overrides one of the benefits of the PrE. Does any other item negate a bonus granted by the PrE it's supposed to help?
+6 Dex - This bonus is already granted by the top-end rogue set in the game, Tharne's Wrath. One of the two is completely redundant.
+1 Exceptional Int - Useful for asassinate DC's but this is the LAST place you want the Int bonus. Since assassinations are extremely situational your intelligence items are best used as swap items to be equipped before assassinating something. Pairing with a stat you want to have permanently (dex) means that you're getting an int bonus all the time when you rarely need it. Must of us will craft a +9 Int ring specifically for assassinations.
Bonus To Hit and Damage on Sneak Attack - Inferior to, and doesn't stack with, the best rogue goggles in the game.
20% Less Threat - identical to reduction from Tharne's Wrath and, therefore, probably doesn't stack (can anyone confirm?)
Level Drain - Does not proc enough to be useful.

So there you have it. Of the seven bonuses given by the set, two are well done, one is questionable, and four are poorly implemented. Please tell me I'm missing something and that some of my data is flawed or incorrect. Convince me that this set is worth obtaining and wearing for an assassin.

If not, what sets are you folks looking for for your assassins?

EDITED: Changed threat reduction to green since it has stackalicious goodness.

NOTE! Don't get me wrong, I love the new mod and what it's done for the game. I love the new quests and raids. I love the Assassin PrE. I love the concepts of Capstones and craftable item sets. I love MANY of the item sets themselves. I just thing the assassin set was poorly implemented and don't know if this is common across the board or just specific to a few PrEs.

[HeavenlyCloud]

20% Less Threat - identical to reduction from Tharne's Wrath and, therefore, probably doesn't stack (can anyone confirm?)

It does stack, i remember a dev saying all the threat reduction stacks.

[Vivanto]

On the posion thing I agree with you, think I already brought it up on a couple of old threads. Makes absolutely no sense to negate a prc benefit on an item specifically designed for that prc.

The dex and int not so much. Especially if the hate reduction indeed dosen't stack, then those bracers aren't anymore the top end rogue item (never were imo), thus it actually frees your bracer slot for whatever you wish, ac8 bracer, glacier, levik, cg, crafted, dq...

Int may be also nice to have permanently, just for convenience.

The sneak attack bonus is listed as exceptional, I believe they intended it to stack - but like everything else in the new mod, it's bugged.

Can't comment on the enervation proc rate as I have no first hand experience with it.

[kamimitsu]

You are spot on, as usual.

Even if the threat did stack, it would stack multiplicatively (per the dev response in a previous DDOcast). Meaning that having subtle backstabbing (0.6 threat) and Tharnes (0.8 threat) and Assassin Set (0.8 threat) renders a difference of 0.48 vs 0.384 (or roughly 10% of your overall damage).

As for myself, I have CON6 on my DT (with GFL) which is a pretty nice place to have it. Additionally, I have a very useful GS belt (proof against poison, fear immunity, WIS 6, diplo/haggle/ CHA skills +4) that I'm not about to re-craft into a different item, so I'll be looking for a different ring from the new content and will forgo any of the set bonuses. I'm leaning towards one of the CHA 6 rings to replace the current CHA ring I wear (so I'm a UMD *****, wannafightaboutit?!). I haven't decided Exc. STR or Exc. DEX, but that decision will come down to where I put my ability point from Level 20 and/or if I pull any +3/+4 tomes before then. After that, I'll hope to craft a +2 Exceptional tier for the other stat. I personally WOULD like Exc INT +1 on my ring, as I tend to assassinate all the time and seldom change my equipment for an 'assassin mode' vs a 'melee mode'. I just do both at the same time and try to keep my equipment dual purpose.

EDIT: if the Sneak Attack bonus DOES stack... my opinion might change, in which case I'd have to do a lot of moving around to re-craft my GS item. Not sure if it would be worth it for the extra +3 DMG or so.

[Timjc86]

I thought exactly the same thing when I saw the Poison Immunity, it simply didn't make any sense.

With the sneak attack bonus not stacking, the set is trash. The +1 exceptional intelligence would be moderately useful if my intelligence were odd. The reduced threat is nice, but not necessary.

Two competitive item spots are not worth +1 int and -20% threat.

Instead, I'm going for the Shintao monk set for the +2 damage and +2 hit. I've also got one of the Con 6 GFL belts (Occult Slayer). If the damage bonus from the Frenzied Berzerker set stacks with the Shintao bonus, then I may switch over to that. Otherwise, I will stick with the Occult Slayer set (better saves are always nice).

Edit: The level drain sounds nifty, but from all reports it procs very rarely.

[Draccus]

It does stack, i remember a dev saying all the threat reduction stacks.

I recall something about that but I also seem to remember that they said the 20% from two Treason's, for example, wouldn't stack. I didn't know if that as due to the fact that they come from the same item or because they are the same amount.

If you do indeed get 36% total threat reduction from 20% Set and 20% Tharnes, then that may bump it to green. However, if you ARE wearing Tharnes and the Assassin set, you're back to having two +6 Dex items.

[rimble]

On the posion thing I agree with you, think I already brought it up on a couple of old threads. Makes absolutely no sense to negate a prc benefit on an item specifically designed for that prc.

Yeah, they implement alot of things that way...like Thief Acrobat...+Balance...+Balance...IMMUNE! Gee thanks, Balance matters in only one place now, the Titan.

They just tend to pile stuff on top of the same stuff and it just results in absurd overkill.

[SimVerg]

Wait, hold on a sec. Let me make sure I get this right. You're saying there is a set whose granted bonuses make no sense for their intended class given the other available equipment options(even being eclipsed by items introduced in the exact same mod)? Someone alert Tharagrim, for surely he simply made a mistake when he did this 9 or 10 times!

[Vivanto]

I recall something about that but I also seem to remember that they said the 20% from two Treason's, for example, wouldn't stack. I didn't know if that as due to the fact that they come from the same item or because they are the same amount.

If it were because the ammount is the same, then treason wouldn't stack with tharne and wouldn't stack with subtle backstab 2 either.

It's only because of the same source - 2 treasons don't stack, and probably 2 tharne's / assasin sets wouldn't stack either if it were possible to equip em

[Timjc86]

Wait, hold on a sec. Let me make sure I get this right. You're saying there is a set whose granted bonuses make no sense for their intended class given the other available equipment options(even being eclipsed by items introduced in the exact same mod)? Someone alert Tharagrim, for surely he simply made a mistake when he did this 9 or 10 times!

Yes, many of the set bonuses are truly shocking in terms of their uselessness.

I find it truly ironic that one of the monk sets provides one of the best bonuses - take the class who's viability is limited to a two level splash and make it's non-PrE tied bonus better than than the other bonuses that synergize with specific tier 3 PrEs. It really is quite humorous.

[QuantumFX]

If you do indeed get 36% total threat reduction from 20% Set and 20% Tharnes, then that may bump it to green. However, if you ARE wearing Tharnes and the Assassin set, you're back to having two +6 Dex items.

My rogue can have the benefits of the Tharnes Set and the Assassin Set without having to wear 2 separate +6 DEX items. I guess if I was that into moving my feather fall item to my braciers slot I could wear 2 +6 DEX items...

[jkm]

honestly, i was kind of laughing at the warchanter set myself. i'll bet you could count the number of warchanters with maximize on one hand.

[QuantumFX]

Some more thoughts on the Assassin Set…

1) I have a feeling that the SA damage not stacking is a bug. ALA the Armor alchemical ritual being not working when it was first introduced. The description implies that it’s an exceptional bonus to sneak attack. Also, it needs to have some advantage over the Frenzied Berzerker set.

2) Let’s assume for a second that I’m totally wrong about thought 1 and the set is working exactly as the developers intended. With the diminishing returns of threat reduction why not wear just the Assassin set and the Tharnes goggles for living stuff? It leaves your bracier slot open for +8 Armor Braciers, the Chaosguarde, Leviks Braciers or good ole greensteel.

[sephiroth1084]

Some more thoughts on the Assassin Set…

2) Let’s assume for a second that I’m totally wrong about thought 1 and the set is working exactly as the developers intended. With the diminishing returns of threat reduction why not wear just the Assassin set and the Tharnes goggles for living stuff? It leaves your bracier slot open for +8 Armor Braciers, the Chaosguarde, Leviks Braciers or good ole greensteel.

/agree
Tharne's Bracers are pretty mediocre, so a lot of the negative comments regarding their relation to the Assassin set are kind of moot (probably code those as yellow instead of red).

PaP is kinda silly, I agree.

As for the stats...I'd probably try to get one of the caster +6 Int, +1 Int rings rather than crafting an Assassin dagger (+9 Int), though I doubt I'd want to wait that long for the Int boost...