Elven Monk12/Fighter8 Tank - Advice Please

[Wilecoyote]

I've been trying to come up with a tank build that I'd have fun playing and after days of pondering the issue, this is what I've come up with...

I've attempted to blend the best attributes of monk and fighter to create a character that is not just a damage dealer, a tank, or support but a blend of all three. From the monk side he'll get 2d6 unarmed attacks; AC; Improved Evasion; +40 ft move; Abundant Step; Slow Fall; Balance, Tumble, Concentration and Jump; master wind stance (and lesser amounts of the other three), disease and poison immunity and self healing via Wholeness of Body; and curing disease, blindness, curses, ability damage and raising dead. From the fighter side he'll get AC, attack, and haste boosts; Intimidate; Stalwart Defender (+50% hate being the big thing here); and enough extra feats to make it possible to pick up Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Focus, Improved Critical, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Whirlwind Attack, Greater Two Weapon Fighting, Toughness, and even the Lesser Dragonmark for Displacement. I picked up what UMD I can with the intention of being able to cast the occasional Shield spell before a combat for bonus AC and possibly a few of the utility wands for when I'm solo'ing.

The questions I have are these two:

First, can you have a monk stance and the Stalwart Defender stance active at the same time?

And second, can any of you see any improvements or major flaws in the build? Any input or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for taking a look.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
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Level 20 Lawful Good Elf Male
(8 Fighter \ 12 Monk) 
Hit Points: 238
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 17\17\22\27\27
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 14
Will: 13

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength             16                 19                   21
Dexterity            16                 17                   19
Constitution         12                 12                   12
Intelligence         12                 13                   13
Wisdom               14                 14                   16
Charisma              8                  8                    8

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               5                    14
Bluff                -1                    -1
Concentration         5                    21
Diplomacy            -1                    -1
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -1                    -1
Heal                  2                     3
Hide                  3                     6
Intimidate            1                    22
Jump                  5                    13
Listen                2                     7
Move Silently         3                     4
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                     1
Search                1                     3
Spot                  2                     5
Swim                  3                     5
Tumble                7                    22
Use Magic Device      1                    10

Level 1 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Elven Keen Senses
Feat: (Automatic) Enchantment Save Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Kama
Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Shuriken
Feat: (Automatic) Finishing Moves
Feat: (Automatic) Flurry of Blows
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Immunity to Sleep
Feat: (Automatic) Ki Strike: Damage
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Handaxe
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Longbow
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Longsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Club
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Dagger
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Heavy Crossbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Light Crossbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Quarterstaff
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency: Unarmed
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Unarmed Strike
Enhancement: Disciple of Breezes
Enhancement: Disciple of Pebbles
Enhancement: Disciple of Candles
Enhancement: Disciple of Puddles


Level 2 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+3)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Tower Shield Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Trip
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I


Level 3 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Shadow
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion
Feat: (Automatic) Meditation
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom I


Level 4 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Mobility
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use I
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I


Level 5 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Monk Path) Philosophy - Path of Harmonious Balance
Feat: (Automatic) Fast Movement
Feat: (Automatic) Still Mind
Enhancement: Way of the Faithful Hound I
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Fists of Light


Level 6 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack
Enhancement: Fighter Flanking Mastery I
Enhancement: Lifting the Veil


Level 7 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Ki Strike: Magic
Feat: (Automatic) Slow Fall
Enhancement: The Receptive Earth
Enhancement: Void Strike


Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Bludgeoning Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II


Level 9 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow
Feat: (Automatic) AC Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Purity of Body
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II


Level 10 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Enhancement: Extra Dragonmark Use II
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate II


Level 11 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Combat Expertise
Enhancement: Monk Wisdom II


Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Whirlwind Attack
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender I


Level 13 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Wholeness of Body
Enhancement: Restoring the Balance
Enhancement: Difficulty at the Beginning


Level 14 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Adept of Wind


Level 15 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons
Enhancement: Adept of Flame
Enhancement: Adept of Rain


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Bludgeoning Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Unarmed Specialization I
Enhancement: Way of the Faithful Hound II
Enhancement: Unbalancing Strike


Level 17 (Monk)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Evasion
Enhancement: Rise of the Phoenix


Level 18 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Tumble (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Ki Strike: Lawful
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery II


Level 19 (Monk)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Tumble (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Automatic) Diamond Body
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II


Level 20 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Tumble (+2)
Feat: (Automatic) Abundant Step
Enhancement: Eagle Claw Attack
Enhancement: Master of Thunder

[Thanimal]

Yes, Stalwart and Monk stances are supposed to be able to be on at the same time (though I haven't personally done that to verify).

Building a tank is extra-tough, because there are some thresholds involved: If you don't have enough AC, you can't tank. If you can't hold aggro, you can't tank. This is different from most other builds -- a DPS who reaches 90% of the best is 90% as effective as the best DPS out there. A tank who hits 90% may often be highly suboptimal. Since this build doesn't have a clear "back-up role" (passable DPS, I guess, if you can count on the new uber rings to add to you unarmed DPS), these numbers are very important.

So the first thing I'd ask you to do is some analysis. Firstly, where can your AC get to? If you assume every ridiculous piece of equipment and buff in the game, can you maintain 90 (or at least real close) at cap?

Next, you need to total up your Intimidate score. I'm fairly sure it's only "OK" -- useful for trash but not for bosses. And if I'm right, then your Hate DPS matter a lot. I will be surprised if +50% is enough for this build to hold aggro from the game's top DPS builds. But I've been surprised before. And those rings ARE awfully good -- heck I made an entire build around them!

Also, why did you choose Elf? Is it just for Displacement mark? Personally I think those feats could be spent better, and thus I'd pick a different race. If you hit tank AC, then Displacement is not that great -- and you can always get a caster to put it on you for tanking bosses.

Final caveat: If you're planning to do a lot of soloing or short-manning, then a lot of what I'm saying above may be irrelevant to you. In that case, having decent DPS and decent survivability may be quite nice.

P.S. There are some micro-details I'd quibble with, but sorting out the above should be done first in my opinion.

[Wilecoyote]

First off, a very hearty thank you! I really appreciate your input and comments.

Next, let me answer some of the items you brought up. Yes, I picked elf for the Displacement. After talking with some guild mates (and RL friends) last night, they explained that the goal pretty much is to raise your AC to the point you can't get hit (or at least only on a 20) so Displacement becomes pretty irrelevant it you hit that goal. In light of that, I'm tinkering around with the build and looking at other races... possibly human or dwarf.

As for hitting 90 AC, I'm going to take a look at that although I'm not expecting it to be possible. Mostly because our guild is relatively small (the most we've had on and available to go on a run was 6) and we're not looking to expand because we're all old friends. So the build isn't intended to be a high-end raid tank and it's not likely he'll ever step foot in a raid unless it's one we're well over-leveled for just for fun. But I'm still going to look at what his AC would be assuming as you put it "every ridiculous piece of equipment and buff in the game" because it should prove a good benchmark for the kind of tanking I'd be doing in the instances we'll have access to. I'm figuring that although we won't have access to some of the best gear, we won't be fighting the top-end bosses either so that 90 AC target should give me some idea how I'd scale to the instances we can run.

Oh, and one last bit. One of the reasons I went with a build aimed at self-buffs (including the Displacement) is because we are a small guild and I can't be sure that I'll have guildmates running that can provide buffs I'll want. Being able to do as much as I can myself makes it easier to tank with who ever else is along for the run.

Again, thank you. I'm not in a hurry to create the character and will see what I can do to improve the build based on your advice.

[Thanimal]

In light of your intentions, let me provide you with a simple formula that I've found quite useful. In order to be able to tank, you generally want to be able to get an AC of 16+3*level with self-buff (and ubiquitous buffs like Haste).

So instead of looking at insane equipment and level 20, try to make a realistic assessment at a few points, and see if you can maintain pretty close to that pace.

Btw, this seems to be a reasonable guideline all the way to the end. A self-buff of 76 is about right for an end-game tank, and then tack on a bunch of party stuff to get into the near-90 range.

It's not exact, but it's a useful build gauge. Or at least it has been for me.