Clerics + Warforged relations

[Ghoste]

Hi All,

As a player that only runs WF. I have tried the rest of those squishy fleshy types and have not yet found them satifying. With the fleshies is means you ahve to allow for waterbreathing, poison resist and death effects as well as being a bunch of puny little knatts.

Seriously though. A couple of thoughts:

1. Take two levels of healers friend, and brag to any cleric that will listen
2. Donate mana pots and wands to any friendly Cleric,Mage,Favored Sould or Sorc
3. Run with a pure warforged group with a couple of Sorcs, or Mages as your clerics as watch those fleshies squeal.
4. Build a WF Sorc or Favored Soul, or Paladin that can heal themsleves and others

"Solution" to hate? Hate does not need to be resolved, it needs to be fed!

[Fenrisulven6]

ANy cleric that flat out refuses to heal warforged deserves to be left for dead.

Agreed. But why does the heal burden fall to the cleric and not the wiz/sorcs?

Seems like a double standard. Why not grief the mages who dont carry repair spells?

[adamkatt]

Agreed. But why does the heal burden fall to the cleric and not the wiz/sorcs?

Seems like a double standard. Why not grief the mages who dont carry repair spells?

I find i need to let the clerics/sorc/wiv/fs know i have 4 loh on my new wf paladin and that i will let them know if im in trouble!

Being an experineced player ive always tried to be prepared.

[Braegan]

Agreed. But why does the heal burden fall to the cleric and not the wiz/sorcs?

Seems like a double standard. Why not grief the mages who dont carry repair spells?

Cant agree with this. If you are an arcane caster that is not WF there is no reason for you to have repair spells. (My sorc does carry reconstruct scrolls for those times when needed) - But no way can I expect an arcane who is not WF to repair the inferior race (somewhat kidding...ok I'm not WF suck )

[shenthing]

Cant agree with this. If you are an arcane caster that is not WF there is no reason for you to have repair spells. (My sorc does carry reconstruct scrolls for those times when needed) - But no way can I expect an arcane who is not WF to repair the inferior race (somewhat kidding...ok I'm not WF suck )

Must agree with this. Unless you are planning to party with mostly WF or are one yourself, you shouldn't be expected to carry reconstruct. Now, if the current quest is light on your spell selection and mana, I see no reason you shouldn't trade it in for something not being used (Wizards that is).

[Fenrisulven6]

Unless you are planning to party with mostly WF or are one yourself, you shouldn't be expected to carry reconstruct.

By that logic, Clerics shouldn't be expected to use CW on WF.

Hell, even my rogue UMDs repair wands.

First stop for WF repairs should be the mage, not the cleric.

[Kalari]

I think if your a member of any party and have the spell room you should carry a repair spell or reconstruct. Its not right to expect the clerics to heal because they have heal spells but not expect an arcane who can cast a repair not to. Thats such a blatant double standard. Sure it benefits a wf arcane more (obviously) to carry their own repair reconstruct. But anyone who claims to be a team member who will whine if a cleric does not heal them but can in another breath say "well I can cast a repair or reconstruct but why should I im not a wf" is just as bad as a non self sufficient type to me. Why bother joining a group if your not going to try to help out in anyway you can? Sure a sorc who dont plan for it may not carry the spells but if a forge hands you a wand or a few scrolls it be nice if you helped out. And many do carry at least one spell (reconstruct) even with their spell limitations especially if they raid.

I just love the whole theres no I in team unless its something I dont feel like doing then I dont have to. If a cleric has to heal because they have the spells I think a arcane should repair we have the spells in our pools. And before anyone says it any wf that has run with my arcanes (be them fleshy or forge casters) knows I repair at any level.

[OTSmithers]

I came to the warforged forums looking for exactly this subject. Not because I am a warforged wondering why my Cleric won't heal me, but because I am a Cleric wondering how in the hell I am supposed to heal Warforged. So far this thread has been useful, if only in confirming that I am not alone -- either in my problem or the solution I have largely reached.

I have been playing MMO's basically as long as MMO's have been around, and going clean back to the days of old UO. My preferred class has always been a healer. I am pretty **** good at it. I assume that the people posting in this thread are equally good at playing their characters.

You are not the problem.

If you have ever played a healer in an MMO you are familiar with something I like to call Healer Psychosis. That's what happens to normally rational, skilled, and careful players the second a healer joins their party. Missions that they were struggling to do on normal, in their minds, are suddenly possible on elite. Nor do they need to use caution or stick together or even turn on the freaking brains. Nope, they've got a healer, and that's a license to be stupid.

They've got potions of course. The game is nice enough to give them to you for free. But they are saving those for when they don't have a healer and have to be careful. Nor do they even want to pause for the ten-freaking-seconds it takes for the healer to throw some buffs their way. No sir. If they bother to gather at all, they pause for one buff and sprint for the next cluster of mobs. Or more often they scatter like roaches exposed to sunlight, heading in five different directions and five different groups of mobs. That's the all too common norm.

And I include the people who play WF's in this group. Repair pots? They've never heard of them. It's not THEIR job to keep themselves upright. Their job is to test their freaking armor by jumping into the god-damned blade trap. Twice.

I am a level six healer and I am **** good at it. But I am going broke buying wands of cure moderate wounds at 5.4K gp each just so I can keep the **** WF's alive. The minute a WF melee joins the group I know that I will now lose money on the mission. And frankly I am getting a bit tired of it. My level six fighter carries twenty to thirty cure mod pots at all times. And I **** sure drink them. Constantly. WF's can **** sure do the same.

And yes, count me among the Clerics that really don't want to group with you anymore.

/rant.

[Fattiest]

I came to the warforged forums looking for exactly this subject. Not because I am a warforged wondering why my Cleric won't heal me, but because I am a Cleric wondering how in the hell I am supposed to heal Warforged. So far this thread has been useful, if only in confirming that I am not alone -- either in my problem or the solution I have largely reached.

I have been playing MMO's basically as long as MMO's have been around, and going clean back to the days of old UO. My preferred class has always been a healer. I am pretty **** good at it. I assume that the people posting in this thread are equally good at playing their characters.

You are not the problem.

If you have ever played a healer in an MMO you are familiar with something I like to call Healer Psychosis. That's what happens to normally rational, skilled, and careful players the second a healer joins their party. Missions that they were struggling to do on normal, in their minds, are suddenly possible on elite. Nor do they need to use caution or stick together or even turn on the freaking brains. Nope, they've got a healer, and that's a license to be stupid.

They've got potions of course. The game is nice enough to give them to you for free. But they are saving those for when they don't have a healer and have to be careful. Nor do they even want to pause for the ten-freaking-seconds it takes for the healer to throw some buffs their way. No sir. If they bother to gather at all, they pause for one buff and sprint for the next cluster of mobs. Or more often they scatter like roaches exposed to sunlight, heading in five different directions and five different groups of mobs. That's the all too common norm.

And I include the people who play WF's in this group. Repair pots? They've never heard of them. It's not THEIR job to keep themselves upright. Their job is to test their freaking armor by jumping into the god-damned blade trap. Twice.

I am a level six healer and I am **** good at it. But I am going broke buying wands of cure moderate wounds at 5.4K gp each just so I can keep the **** WF's alive. The minute a WF melee joins the group I know that I will now lose money on the mission. And frankly I am getting a bit tired of it. My level six fighter carries twenty to thirty cure mod pots at all times. And I **** sure drink them. Constantly. WF's can **** sure do the same.

And yes, count me among the Clerics that really don't want to group with you anymore.

/rant.

having played other MMO's you should understand the lower levs work, you will run into alot of poorly played toons, WF and other. once you get to the higher levs the Noobs that give WF bad reps will slowly fall away with the other trash players.

any good WF will carry pots and scrolls/wands to give to the caster and carry at least one lev of healers friend. it seems as though you have ran into many bad noobs trying to play the WF race.

The best advice i can give to a newer player as yourself is this: Dont Heal Stupid

[OTSmithers]

having played other MMO's you should understand the lower levs work, you will run into alot of poorly played toons, WF and other. once you get to the higher levs the Noobs that give WF bad reps will slowly fall away with the other trash players.

any good WF will carry pots and scrolls/wands to give to the caster and carry at least one lev of healers friend. it seems as though you have ran into many bad noobs trying to play the WF race.

The best advice i can give to a newer player as yourself is this: Dont Heal Stupid

A Cleric's job is no different than anyone else's job -- using our abilities to complete the mission. Stupid or not, WF or not, as a Cleric I am going to do what I can to see this happen. I believe that this is everyone's role. Or, rather, it should be. Most people who elect to play a Cleric do so knowing that they will have a responsibility to their group. Most Clerics take this seriously. In their mind, every time a group-mate dies, they failed at their job. It doesn't matter how brilliantly they performed, fingers flying on their keyboards like a concert pianist, monitoring everything from healthbars to positioning and even the mage's mana, the measure in their mind-- and in the mind's of the group -- is who lived and who died. That's how MOST dedicated healers are, that's how they play, that's the challenge they accepted when they made the toon. They know that they are accepting the toughest job in the game, and one that rarely gets noticed when it goes well and the first thing criticized when anything goes wrong.

Many MMO players take advantage of this. They behave in a way that suggests that, because there is someone there who is taking it seriously, they no longer need to. In DDO they have the Cleric -- he's responsible, so they don't have to be.

You can see that even in this thread. No WF seemingly expects the Wizard and Sorcerer to heal them. Hell no. Sure, they have the spells and sp to actually do it, but you cannot ask a mage to support the group by, god forbid, healing. Supporting the group is the Cleric's job. Apparently many WF don't even feel as though they have an obligation to take feats and enhancements to help the Cleric out or guzzle the occassional repair potion to relieve some of the strain. And when the Cleric finally says, "You know, this would be soo much easier if I didn't have Turbo Tonka draining three-quarters of my mojo!" suddenly he is the bad guy.

[Kalari]

Snipped Most Clerics take this seriously. In their mind, every time a group-mate dies, they failed at their job. *Snipped*

See what Fattiest was trying to explain to you yet you confirmed for me alone with that post is "you are a heal bot." whether you want to admit it or not.

Clerics may have the ability to heal, but if the developers only wanted us to do so we would not have crowd control and killing spells.

Point blank stupid play is not a fleshie or wf issue and if your having trouble healing a wf ask "hey do you have any healers friend." If they do they are at least making an effort for your healing to help them. IF they dont dont worry about them any good player knows they need to do their part to make a run go smooth.

But the attitude your showing here is exactly what many of us who enjoy playing healers do not want to promote. We are not there to just heal, and I sure as hell dont feel bad if someone dies due to their own carelessness. If its something I caused which is rare but lets say I pulled aggro of too many mobs with a searing light or blade barrier didnt quite pack a punch and the party suffered then yes its my fault.

But someone dying? im going with its that players fault. We need to stop saying "theres no I in team" if we really dont mean that. And many posters here will be the same who say "keep with the group and dont zerg pen and paper team mentality speak" yet will in another breath say they wont help another party member out because of their player race type. That to me is sad, but if its how you wish to run fine.

The rest of us will heal forges because anyone joining my party is there to succeed, if they are not then and only then will they be ignored by me. I dont heal stupid period.

[AylinIsAwesome]

By that logic, Clerics shouldn't be expected to use CW on WF.

Hell, even my rogue UMDs repair wands.

First stop for WF repairs should be the mage, not the cleric.

Please explain that to me. Seeing as how Sorcerers will only have three level six spells at level 20, and if they don't party with Warforged a lot it's a worthless spell most of the time, that could have been Disintegrate, or Chain Lightning/Otiluke's Freezing Sphere or Flesh to Stone... So please explain to me why I should drop one of those spells on my human Sorcerer for the times where I'll need to heal Warforged. Especially since Warforged can be healed by both Arcane and Divine spells, and no other race gets any benefit from Repair spells.

Using wands and scrolls, I can understand. I do this. But telling me I should drop one of my level 6 spells (which are very useful) for a spell that won't even see use in every quest...

I came to the warforged forums looking for exactly this subject. Not because I am a warforged wondering why my Cleric won't heal me, but because I am a Cleric wondering how in the hell I am supposed to heal Warforged. So far this thread has been useful, if only in confirming that I am not alone -- either in my problem or the solution I have largely reached.

I have been playing MMO's basically as long as MMO's have been around, and going clean back to the days of old UO. My preferred class has always been a healer. I am pretty **** good at it. I assume that the people posting in this thread are equally good at playing their characters.

You are not the problem.

If you have ever played a healer in an MMO you are familiar with something I like to call Healer Psychosis. That's what happens to normally rational, skilled, and careful players the second a healer joins their party. Missions that they were struggling to do on normal, in their minds, are suddenly possible on elite. Nor do they need to use caution or stick together or even turn on the freaking brains. Nope, they've got a healer, and that's a license to be stupid.

They've got potions of course. The game is nice enough to give them to you for free. But they are saving those for when they don't have a healer and have to be careful. Nor do they even want to pause for the ten-freaking-seconds it takes for the healer to throw some buffs their way. No sir. If they bother to gather at all, they pause for one buff and sprint for the next cluster of mobs. Or more often they scatter like roaches exposed to sunlight, heading in five different directions and five different groups of mobs. That's the all too common norm.

And I include the people who play WF's in this group. Repair pots? They've never heard of them. It's not THEIR job to keep themselves upright. Their job is to test their freaking armor by jumping into the god-damned blade trap. Twice.

I am a level six healer and I am **** good at it. But I am going broke buying wands of cure moderate wounds at 5.4K gp each just so I can keep the **** WF's alive. The minute a WF melee joins the group I know that I will now lose money on the mission. And frankly I am getting a bit tired of it. My level six fighter carries twenty to thirty cure mod pots at all times. And I **** sure drink them. Constantly. WF's can **** sure do the same.

And yes, count me among the Clerics that really don't want to group with you anymore.

/rant.

Ok, you're level 6. When you get to level 11, you get a spell called "Heal". Even if the Warforged in question hasn't taken any Healer's Friend (which most people who can actually play will have level 1 or more) and have no healing amplification items, and you've not put any points into your cure spells (but since you sound like a healbot you probably have) you'll heal Warforged a guaranteed 55 HP every Heal. But I'm betting you'll have Cleric Life Magic 4, so really that's 77 HP. And if the WF can actually play, they have Healer's Friend 1, so really it's 100 HP. When you're level 15, you'll heal them 136 HP every time. And if you've taken Empower Healing (because you're a healbot and Clerics get enhancements from that it makes sense that you'd grab it), that's 204 HP per cast for 41 mana. You should have over 1000 SP at this point, from leveling and items, so healing Warforged won't really be as big a deal to you as you make it out to be.

It's only at the lower levels that healing Warforged is an issue (low level healing spells, not as many +healing enhancements for you or them and that's where all the stupid players are).

You can see that even in this thread. No WF seemingly expects the Wizard and Sorcerer to heal them. Hell no. Sure, they have the spells and sp to actually do it, but you cannot ask a mage to support the group by, god forbid, healing. Supporting the group is the Cleric's job. Apparently many WF don't even feel as though they have an obligation to take feats and enhancements to help the Cleric out or guzzle the occassional repair potion to relieve some of the strain. And when the Cleric finally says, "You know, this would be soo much easier if I didn't have Turbo Tonka draining three-quarters of my mojo!" suddenly he is the bad guy.

Often times in high level groups, if there's both an Arcane and a Warforged, then the Arcane will help healing the Warforged. If it's a wizard, probably through Reconstruct, but if it's a Sorc that's not a Warforged, they have absolutely no reason to take Reconstruct. Their job is to kill stuff, and many good killing spells are in the same level. Expect them to use only scrolls or wands.


Also, stop blaming the entire Warforged player base for the actions of a few stupid players. If you grouped with several rangers that decided jumping into spike traps so you could heal them was fun, or that they wanted to aggro an entire room by themselves (almost getting themselves killed, if they even live), would you blame every person who plays a Ranger for that? Or would you recognize that it's due to them being stupid that they get themselves into trouble?

Now after you answer that, think again to Warforged. Do you think that the stupid players who were using Warforged were bad because they were Warforged, or because they're just bad players, regardless of race or class?

[OTSmithers]

See what Fattiest was trying to explain to you yet you confirmed for me alone with that post is "you are a heal bot." whether you want to admit it or not.

Clerics may have the ability to heal, but if the developers only wanted us to do so we would not have crowd control and killing spells.

Point blank stupid play is not a fleshie or wf issue and if your having trouble healing a wf ask "hey do you have any healers friend." If they do they are at least making an effort for your healing to help them. IF they dont dont worry about them any good player knows they need to do their part to make a run go smooth.

But the attitude your showing here is exactly what many of us who enjoy playing healers do not want to promote. We are not there to just heal, and I sure as hell dont feel bad if someone dies due to their own carelessness. If its something I caused which is rare but lets say I pulled aggro of too many mobs with a searing light or blade barrier didnt quite pack a punch and the party suffered then yes its my fault.

But someone dying? im going with its that players fault. We need to stop saying "theres no I in team" if we really dont mean that. And many posters here will be the same who say "keep with the group and dont zerg pen and paper team mentality speak" yet will in another breath say they wont help another party member out because of their player race type. That to me is sad, but if its how you wish to run fine.

The rest of us will heal forges because anyone joining my party is there to succeed, if they are not then and only then will they be ignored by me. I dont heal stupid period.

Healing is an important part of what the Cleric brings to the table. Buffs, debuffs, and crowd control are also important of course, but replaceable. CC, buffs, debuffs, all can be done by other classes -- and perhaps better -- but no class will outheal a cleric. Calling me a "healbot" -- as an insult -- is nothing more than an effort to diminish one of the most vital functions and skills of a Cleric player. Yes, I heal.

But with that in mind kindly stipulate that if I can watch a half dozen life bars while machinegunning through wands and a few bars full of spells and clickies, and still manage to keep track of everyone else's mana and what's going on around me, that I can probably manage to remember to throw a buff once every ten minutes or every time I shrine -- whichever comes first. I know, hard to imagine, but it's true. And I even buff and debuff and crowd control. But while I do all that, and understand it's importance, I am first and always a healer.

[OTSmithers]

Also, stop blaming the entire Warforged player base for the actions of a few stupid players. If you grouped with several rangers that decided jumping into spike traps so you could heal them was fun, or that they wanted to aggro an entire room by themselves (almost getting themselves killed, if they even live), would you blame every person who plays a Ranger for that? Or would you recognize that it's due to them being stupid that they get themselves into trouble?

Now after you answer that, think again to Warforged. Do you think that the stupid players who were using Warforged were bad because they were Warforged, or because they're just bad players, regardless of race or class?

Fair enough. I **** sure don't judge all Clerics based on the ones I have been stuck grouping with on my alt (two of the last four apparently did not know that they had healing spells), so I probably shouldn't judge WF's that way either.

[Fenrisulven6]

So please explain to me why I should drop one of those spells on my human Sorcerer for the times where I'll need to heal Warforged.

Kalari said it better than I can:

"I think if you're a member of any party and have the spell room you should carry a repair spell or reconstruct.

Its not right to expect the clerics to heal because they have heal spells but not expect an arcane who can cast a repair not to. Thats such a blatant double standard. ..anyone who claims to be a team member who will whine if a cleric does not heal them but can in another breath say "well I can cast a repair or reconstruct but why should I im not a wf" is just as bad as a non self sufficient type to me."

[Danmor]

Well, on a non-WF sorcerer I'd understand not having reconstruct in their spell list. But it'd sure be nice to have some Reconstruct scrolls around for when things get hairy.

But as has been said many times before in this thread: This is only an issue at low to mid-levels. Once people start raiding most will have enough resources available to buy reconstruct scrolls and will maybe even do so in certain quests that are known to be hard.

Also, when I'm on my capped cleric in a raid I do not care about the race of the character. If all melees are beating up Harry I do not worry about who's WF and who's not. I simply fire empowered mass cures interspersed with spot heals at the melees. If you took some of the healing enhancements your empowered heals will be powerful enough to fully heal a WF or a fleshie - usually.

So in conclusion: If your cleric/FvS is whining about the cost of healing you, give the arcane a couple of scrolls and wands and be done with it. Just wait for end-game content where this kind of complaining will stop.

[Khayvan]

Fair enough. I **** sure don't judge all Clerics based on the ones I have been stuck grouping with on my alt (two of the last four apparently did not know that they had healing spells), so I probably shouldn't judge WF's that way either.

No you shouldn't. Your problem isn't really with WF, it's with bad players. It's just being compounded by the fact that those bad players are running a WF.

A good WF player will save you mana through their immunities, and by being able to be healed by more classes than any other. And a good party will save you mana through everyone doing their part and not relying on the healers to fix their "mistakes" and carry them through the quest.

Also, one thing you may need to keep in mind: if one character is being an unreasonable drain on party resources, then it may be better to let him die. Tough love and all that. The player may get mad but maybe he'll have time to think about what he's doing while riding in your backpack. Or he'll leave the group, in which case you're still better off.

[Judo]

mmmmm, relationssss

giggity

[Khayvan]

Kalari said it better than I can:

"I think if you're a member of any party and have the spell room you should carry a repair spell or reconstruct.

Its not right to expect the clerics to heal because they have heal spells but not expect an arcane who can cast a repair not to. Thats such a blatant double standard. ..anyone who claims to be a team member who will whine if a cleric does not heal them but can in another breath say "well I can cast a repair or reconstruct but why should I im not a wf" is just as bad as a non self sufficient type to me."

I can agree with this as far as wizards go, but not so much for sorcerers. To me, it feels selfish on my part to ask them to spend one of their limited slots on a spell that benefits them only when I'm around. Heck, one of my regular running buddies is a sorc and I've never asked him to learn a repair spell. But I do keep him supplied in repair wands. I consider keeping a couple wands on hand to pass out to arcanes as important to my self-sufficiency as carrying my own oils.

[Kalari]

I can agree with this as far as wizards go, but not so much for sorcerers. To me, it feels selfish on my part to ask them to spend one of their limited slots on a spell that benefits them only when I'm around. Heck, one of my regular running buddies is a sorc and I've never asked him to learn a repair spell. But I do keep him supplied in repair wands. I consider keeping a couple wands on hand to pass out to arcanes as important to my self-sufficiency as carrying my own oils.

Thats why I put extra room but its really not that hard for a sorceror to help out with wands and scrolls as well. Though I guess because I have gotten so much help from many wf players raising up my first character (Kalari my wizard) I just appreciate what they bring to battle more. I even have a human sorceror who has dragon marks to help repair forges it has worked out great for raids. Im in a solid guild where a build like that can be appreciated and if artificers ever see the light of day she would be reincarnated into one.

sure my playstyle isnt for everyone but if you have the ability and room to help your warforge team mates out why not do so? I just dont think its right that people assume the clerics are the only healer types in a group. Forges can be repaired if your wizard cannot forgo one lousy spell slot for one repair spell then they are not worth being on your team IMO. As to what I said before I will heal anyone on my team as long as they are working together towards our success if they act stupid are a mana drain they make better soul stones in my book.

And thanks Fen I honestly cant stand that double standard it drives me up a wall.