Clerics + Warforged relations

[fooshards]

Clerics who flat-out refuse to heal warforgeds have a special spot in hell reserved for them.

I was in a group like that, I'm a sorc, and was doing that Lvl 11 quest in House Jorasco, pursuing the kidnapper (can't remember the name). You know, the one with Fire-vulnerable undeads?

So naturally we were using the "fire wall + protect the sorc" strategy, but the cleric refused to heal me at all. I died a few times before I asked "I need a bit of help during a fight, can you heal me if I get low? I'm using wands to heal up between, but as the source of 90% of our kills and damage here, I need to reserve SP for walls" and he had the nerve to cuss me out and dropped group...

We continued on with 5 people and got the quest done with only 1 more (oops trap) death, and it was from the rogue!

[zooble]

i burned 50+ heal scrolls and 2 shop pots healing a warforged tank in vod fully specced in healing. how many did the other cleric use? who knows... there was also a wiz that helped. you can supply those thanks.

any other tank could have tanked it fine... it didn't have to be a warforged and i would have saved a large amount of coin. that could be said about every other dungeon in the game... they arn't required for anything and any other race can replace them with no down side

i can protect myself just fine thanks... or if you must insist... any other class can protect me just fine and use less resources

any immunity you think is crucial can be bestowed/cured by a cleric spell,equip, or even a clickie so what were you bringing to the group again?

if you want to play warforged then play a sorc/cleric/fvs/wiz and heal yourself... you are not bringing anything to the group if you are draining excessive sp and the group is better off without you.

i dont mind tossing the above mentioned combos heals in the heat of battle considering they always heal themselves inbetween fights

if you drain my sp then afaik you can leave the group so a more efficient fleshie can join

[xtchizobr]

i burned 50+ heal scrolls and 2 shop pots healing a warforged tank in vod fully specced in healing. how many did the other cleric use? who knows... there was also a wiz that helped. you can supply those thanks.

any other tank could have tanked it fine... it didn't have to be a warforged and i would have saved a large amount of coin. that could be said about every other dungeon in the game... they arn't required for anything and any other race can replace them with no down side

i can protect myself just fine thanks... or if you must insist... any other class can protect me just fine and use less resources

any immunity you think is crucial can be bestowed/cured by a cleric spell,equip, or even a clickie so what were you bringing to the group again?

if you want to play warforged then play a sorc/cleric/fvs/wiz and heal yourself... you are not bringing anything to the group if you are draining excessive sp and the group is better off without you.

i dont mind tossing the above mentioned combos heals in the heat of battle considering they always heal themselves inbetween fights

if you drain my sp then afaik you can leave the group so a more efficient fleshie can join

tell me all about how you can CAST a SPELL to cure or buff for an immunity. i wanna hear all about that, it sounds really expensive for meatbags to deal with stat drains and poisons and intimate diseases from your mom... not to mention being raised from the grave after she deathray'd [with] them. we'll just completely ignore the existence of dispel magic and the effect it has on your expensive buffs to protect against things that warforged are naturally and permanently immune to. well, i guess we already did talk about it, though, huh?

the way suet-sack clerics talk, you'd get the impression that they consider themselves works of divine art gifted to eberron for the enjoyment of otherwise-less-fortunate sycophantic mortals. maybe warforged don't excrete copious amounts of marble, but we are, as a race, no more or less deserving of compassion and consideration than any other sentient creature that is forced to bear your company. do try to keep in mind that healing is simply a function to be performed for the good the whole party, not a glorious feature of your splendid and august presence.

how dare -- how dare you demand that players restrict their gameplay to only those classes capable of self healing? if your SP is so incredibly valuable to you, i would have thought you'd do the most reasonable thing and simply not spend it on anyone. then you can explain to everyone with rational and carefully thought out arguments why you chose to play a cleric that just sits there and complains.

resource management is something that adults learn over the course of maturation, and usually this is actuated by the process whereby they see that they had chosen to be wasteful and pay the consequences. that is, if you're using a lot of heal scrolls, you're doing it wrong. expenses are normal for everyone. clerics aren't unique and ultra special in that. considerate use of consumables is to be expected for the good of the group. if you could protect yourself just fine, why aren't you soloing the dungeon?

do please let me know the names of all your characters so i can very carefully laminate their names in large font on my wall. when i sit down to enjoy this wonderful game, DDO, i want to be absolutely certain that you have no part in it.

[BurningDownTheHouse]

I can' t say that I play wf's exclusively, but 6 out of 9 i currently play are wf.

Most of the hate you encounter is at low levels, for the reasons stated above.

So here is my take on not making clerics hate you - specificaly at low levels:

1. If you are a wf caster (doesnt matter if arcane or devine) specificaly tell the cleric not to bother healing you, you will take care of yourself.

2. A wf ac build is not a drain on the cleric, properly built at low levels, you won't take almost any damage (high ac + inherent dr rock, but carry a few pots for the odd 5% that you will get hit).

3. A wf dps no ac build should carry a LOT of repair pots. It's expensive, so i would recomend that if you can't afford to be chugging them almost constantly, it's not the time to play a wf low ac dps just yet (you will need at least 100k plat just in repair pots to get to levels where the clerics get heal, and that is only if you play smart, otherwise it might be much higher).

4. In any event, unless you are an arcane caster, have at least one level of healer friendly.

5. Being the last man standing at the end of a tough fight where the cleric wasn't healing you and carrying his and the groups soul stones to the shrine might earn you some respect, but no love.
Making sure the entire group is standing at the end of a tough fight where cleric didn't heal you, will get you both respect and love from a perceptive cleric. The none perceptive ones won't survive for long anyway.

Hope this helps.

[Chimaira]

Where do you find these people? I have run into many clerics, crappy clerics that heal noob rangers with 10 AC, crappy clerics with no SP, crappy clerics that think they are an agent of destruction (I'm talking 7 cometfalls on a single mob) and crappy clerics that "forget" people are at low HP (They heal, but usually it's after a rez). Never, ever, have I run into a cleric that refused to heal the WF in the party. Infact, I have seen most WF do a much better job at keeping the cleric from wasting SP, simply because most of them are experienced players (I have no idea why, you'd think a WF would be appealing to "Da kool kidz"). And in dungeons where mobs spam level drain, I always feel bad for having to ask the cleric to waste 100+ SP on my ass because I got 5 neg levels since that BS turns my high saves tank into a squishy that can't buff or hit anything.

Oh, infact it's that bad that whenever I try to heal the WFs in my party with LOH (since that heals them just fine) I'm usually casting it on a full HP WF because the cleric already dropped a bunch of heals.

[Danmor]

I don't heal WF that are
a) stupid (i.e. the rogue that runs off and aggroes a whole room of mobs)
b) even more stupid (i.e. the ranger that starts kiting a whole room then runs away and gets killed in a corner)
c) in my backpack because I had to rez them twice already
d) a drain on my sp because of their build/playstyle/whatever (i.e. the barb with 10 ac and no hp to speak off)

But all those points also apply to other races. Only thing is that I usually wait a bit longer before healing wf. Usually they can take the damage and meanwhile I can heal the squishies.

As for fights against beholders: Best healing spell for that is true resurrection ^^

[Ghoste]

Clerics should not be trying to have have "relations" with warforged. This is viewed by our kind as oppressive harassment. We are a liberated race. If you want constructs to perform that kind of "service", please visit your nearest artificer and put in an order for a non-sentient pleasure golem.

[jomonkey527]

In any higher level quests where we know ahead of time that a lot of damage will be handed out, our party ahead of time usually tells me worry only about the fleshies and someone else heals the WF. The only time I deviate from that is if the WF is going down fast I'll throw a heal thier way, and also only if I am not jeapordizing the fleshies and my real role.

[woundweaver]

first off, i mainly play healers. ill heal anyone, fleshie and warforged alike. but if ever you are in my party and adopt that attitude, ill never throw another heal to you. its my job to keep a party alive, but its not my job to keep an ego going, either. i would just as soon let someone with your attitude die, and focus on keeping another tank up who can operate as a team, and not a one man show.

and for chrissakes....what are you thinking, pi$$ing clerics off? you are gonna have a horrible game experience if you are gonna carry that attitude. so, just take some healing amp and a stack of pots, and try to be self sufficient. let the healer handle the rest.

[woundweaver]

Clerics should not be trying to have have "relations" with warforged. This is viewed by our kind as oppressive harassment. We are a liberated race. If you want constructs to perform that kind of "service", please visit your nearest artificer and put in an order for a non-sentient pleasure golem.

hehe, he said "relations"...

[Azmode]

I remember back in the day Adamantine WAS tied in with healing. If you took it, it would lower your regular healing outright to almost nothing(if 0 at all). So did they finally change it? I quit back in module 6, or whenever Litany of the Dead came out, and have yet to make my WF Barbarian again(Until I can get my hands on a Maelstrom)

From an old player who use to love playing WF here is what I have to say.

1) Stop complaining. You knew the choice when you took up War Forge. Their immunities and DR are very powerful. Of course there has to be some negative effects.
2) Make sure you have repair wands to hand out. As IMO ALL people should carry Cure/Repair wands for themselves.
3) Let's face it - WF do suck up clerics SP, and don't deny it. Yes that DR helps, but the higher level you go the more insignificant it gets. Now we all know WF don't take as much damage, but honestly WF don't always have the best AC as compared to let's say - twinked characters.
4) A cleric has the right not to heal you, or anybody. Just as you have the right not to protect them.
5) If you have Healers Friend, which is mandatory, make sure you let them know what percentage is.
6) Befriend Wizards, and Sorcerers, and they'll be your best friend.
7) WF are powerful in the fact they have more choices for healers then anybody else. It's easier to get Wizards/Sorcerers then it is to find Clerics/Favored Souls. Most groups have one of each - so more power to you.
8) Be a WF Monk ; ) Then you'll gain more healing then even fleshlings hehe.
9) Play SMART, not BRAVE.
10) Make your own groups, with a Wizard/Sorcerers who can heal you. This is without a doubt your best option. Be an active leader, and make the group that would suit your WF better. And try to find other WF.

Alright, I'm done. I don't blame Healers for not wanting to heal a WF. They do soak up SP, and let's face it - usually the type of people who play WF just rush into battle with their huge two handers, tearing up as many enemies as possible - and sucking SP while at it. Those are the players giving them a bad name(You know who you are!).

The only solution is to make sure you carry all repair wands, and potions on yourself. They are cheap, and as long as you play smart you won't be using much. For some reason you are too poor - just don't tank, and try not to grab any aggro. Yes, it's frustrating but that was your choice when making a WF. A good WF is priceless, but a Human Fighter will go a lot further on a clerics small SP pool then any WF tank of the same calibur.

Stop complaining though, seriously. Don't play it if you don't like it, because you aren't helping the class. Just make your own groups - there, problem solved!

[Azmode]

Oh yeah, and a group full of WF is down right awesome.

I remember back two years ago when there were actually a ton of WF around(now they are a rare, breed). Where I could get a group full of WF sorcerers, wizards, and rangers. There would only be a few of us, but we would be able to go through places like Stormcleave on elite without problems. Running around while casting Firewall, with expedious retreat - kiting the bastards, and repairing ourselves when needed! We simply would OWN the place and nothing would or could touch us ; ).

Ah, those were the days. For all you WF fanatics I implore you to do a full WF group. Mass DPS, and tanking abilities as no pure healers are needed ; ). A group of three WF Sorcerers/Wizards, and three tanks = madness and mayhem. Try it - it's definitely fun with no fleshlings around.

[Ghoste]

I remember back in the day Adamantine WAS tied in with healing. If you took it, it would lower your regular healing outright to almost nothing(if 0 at all).

Completely false. I have played nothing but warforged since beta. My very first character was a fighter in adamantine body.

You are thinking of the improved fortification feat.

[xtchizobr]

3) Let's face it - WF do suck up clerics SP, and don't deny it. Yes that DR helps, but the higher level you go the more insignificant it gets. Now we all know WF don't take as much damage, but honestly WF don't always have the best AC as compared to let's say - twinked characters.

oh please. that's an incredibly ignorant and misleading comment.

to be accurate, warforged receive less healing per divine spell received. how much less? usually only 35% less because 2AP for a +15% enhancement is affordable for any build. possibly as little as 25% less, but that's outrageously expensive, and not worth the cost.

now, less healing received is still less healing received, but it's just stupid to make it sound like warforged "suck up all the sp!". a cleric has plenty of SP to go around, wizards, sorcs and favored souls even more so. look at it this way: if elves had a racial ability that allowed them to be healed by 50% of repair spells, plus enhancements to boost that up to 65%, you can bet your booties there'd be an emigration from humans en masse.

warforged don't suck up clerics' SP, stupid groups waste the healer's SP by not being able to manage their resources. this is NOT a problem with the warforged race, it's an education problem amongst the population. warforged are EASIER to heal because they have more sources of potential healing. clerics are disproportionately more likely to have ego problems than other classes.

then there's the problem where low level clerics just don't have the experience with important parts of the game (i.e., mid to high levels where you'll spend an actually relevant amount of time) to know that healing a warforged for single-digits is not worth worrying about in korthos! with all the massive - massive - boosts to their healing powers via devotion/potency items, enhancements, certain gear the target may be wearing, and who knows what else, a warforged's racial features are a ludicrously tiny factor over the course of a dungeon.

more important things that actually do affect your cleric's ability to keep people alive:

-- stupid people, possibly even the cleric himself.
-- fail rogues (i propose that they be be officially termed "rouges". fitting, surely.)
-- melees not being built for survivability (all those rangers out there with no AC)
-- casters not being able to control their aggro
-- caster who can't find their crowd control buttons (all those sorcs... "my character's a pyro! >=3")
-- lack of buffs.
-- under-leveled characters in an elite quest
-- stupid people.

roll 1d8 to see what it is that's killing your group. stupid people are on there twice because they're that much more likely to be the cause in the first place. although, it could be argued, that any of these possibilities are just specific cases of "stupid".

[THAC0]

So... i think ive run with you once?

I had this exact situation... WF barbarian, cleric says he wont heal him, wf replies that ok, im not taking mobs off you then, and i reply dont worry, i got you ( reconstruct memorized ). Me and the other WF ended up watching the wipefest that the cleric made with the other 3 pt members, while me and him kept trucking and bringing them back to ress shrines.

If you were on Ghalla.... then it likely was me. There have been several instances when me and one other guy run all 4 life stones to a shrine... or better yet... the 2 of us finish the quest cuz they have all used up the shrine uses.

[Azmode]

Completely false. I have played nothing but warforged since beta. My very first character was a fighter in adamantine body.

You are thinking of the improved fortification feat.

You're right. I was being confused with Adamantine = 100% fortification which in turn means 0 from cure spells. Either way they need to fix it, because everyone can get 100% Fortification.

Xthc, you mention stupid people twice, yes. So, let's face it, a stupid WF is even worse ; ).

I still feel the WF strongest areas are the fact that they gain the ability to be healed by more classes.

However, if you plan on playing WF just make sure you have some Wizards/Sorcerers(Mainly Wizards) that are willing to repair you.

[Arnya]

first off, i mainly play healers. ill heal anyone, fleshie and warforged alike. but if ever you are in my party and adopt that attitude, ill never throw another heal to you. its my job to keep a party alive, but its not my job to keep an ego going, either. i would just as soon let someone with your attitude die, and focus on keeping another tank up who can operate as a team, and not a one man show.

and for chrissakes....what are you thinking, pi$$ing clerics off? you are gonna have a horrible game experience if you are gonna carry that attitude. so, just take some healing amp and a stack of pots, and try to be self sufficient. let the healer handle the rest.

Listen to this guy, he's a **** fine healer.

Wound doesn't seem to have any problems healing my WF Barb/Rog with nearly 600HP. In VOD I'm sure it was Wound who not only healed me intimitanking the orthons but the main tank too. (Correct me if I'm wrong)

I never see him sucking pots or asking for scrolls. Why? Because he's a good cleric/FvS.

OP: You must run with $hitty clerics and WF tanks. Or be one of them

[Ghoste]

Xthc, you mention stupid people twice, yes. So, let's face it, a stupid WF is even worse ; ).

This is one of their strongest features to me. It helps to weed out the fools at the lower levels.

[xtchizobr]

Xthc, you mention stupid people twice, yes. So, let's face it, a stupid WF is even worse ; ).

they'd only be worse if a stupid WF were disproportionately bad for the group. which i don't concede. WF don't have a magical button with "kill the group" stamped on it.

[Azmode]

This is one of their strongest features to me. It helps to weed out the fools at the lower levels.

You know, I was going to say the reason why so many people hate WF, is because they seem to attract more stupid, iand mmature kiddies - but I figured I would be flamed into oblivion as I am on a WF board ; ) haha.

So, at least you guys know it's true - the average WF is a kid who can't play. Which sadly gives us WF a bad name to everyone else.

I love my old WF Barbarian. Once I find a Maelstrom, I'm going to recreate him and go destroy WW/STK/TR with bodies, and leave my party in my wake. So don't get me wrong - I love them. But to say they don't drain more SP then usual where a clerics healing can be used elsewhere is just simply wrong. Especially at lower levels.

With that being said - those of us who do actually play WF should always carry some Repair wands, as they are cheap, and will save a ton of hassle down the road.

I must say this though - all players should carry at least one Cure Wand/Repair Wand to ease the burden of healing. That's just my opinion anyway. I know I'm one of those leaders who carries Wands, Potions and such to supply the group and to make sure it succeeds.

I've been thinking about building a Warforge Monk soon. With 18 Dex, 18 Con, 18 Wisdom, and low STR. Make him the ultimate DR/Saves/Immunity Glass Tank(A tank with high saves, and AC, but with sub-par HP).