Clerics + Warforged relations

[marshm1972]

Start of Rant: I am fed up.

I play a WF THF Fighter currently and I am sick of certain (not all, or even most) Clerics telling me that they wont heal me because I burn up to much of *their* Mana. I might use the same arguement: That I use up too much of my hit points/wear out my weapons in order to protect the healers. I can get a mob of most other characters even without intimadate. Either by getting them to switch targets to me or by killing them outright. If I am taking the risk then why shouldnt I reap the benefit? Even WITH my handicap...

1. First of all DDO is a team based game not a solo game. If the healers start deciding who they will heal that doesnt make it a "group" game anymore. If someone does want to heal WF, then perhaps they shouldn't be a healer period.

2. And more the point, if a cleric refuses to heal me then under what obligation am I under to keep protecting him? If its "every man for himself" then I must say I certainly dont feel obliged to put myself at risk, use my own resources like pots and stuff in order to protect someone who will not recipocate. Many's the times Ive wanted to "OK you wont me heal me? Fine, I wont protect you, if the mobs attack you -you're are on your own!". Seems fair no?

The WF heal penalty hurts -but WF have immunities that make up for it. So while other races are held, or weakened by poison or disease, or lvl drained. We can keep fighting at peak efficiency. Most players like having a WF Fighters, Barbs, or even Pallys around when facing Beholders.

3. And yes, I carry a good supply of repair pots/wands, I am working on getting Healing Amp items, and at least level II Healers Friend, although I have not yet decided on lvl III because its a large AP investment (with an at best 5% return) and at worst 0% return if Clerics refuse to help. So I can takecare of myself, I just think its unfair when I am expected to takecare of the healers but not the other way around.

End of Rant.

[RazorrX]

WF can cost Clerics a hella lot of mana. ESP if you guys take the Adamantine body. Sure it gives you heavy fort, but it also makes healing cost out the wazzoo.

Mages (wiz and sorc) are the class that gets Repair spells. Mages can use Repair Wands. The race was created by mages and is intended to be healed by them. Buy them repair wands and ask them to heal you after fights, may get you healed some and save the Cleric spell points.

Most Clerics I know will still try to keep you alive. IF you are taking way more damage than the other players I can see an issue (but that works if you are flesh or wood). It is good you have healers friend, if you really want Clerics to heal you - let them know you have it.

But basically game mechanics state that Clerics heal fleshies, Mages heal Droids.

So you should rant that the mage is not healing you, because it is a class feature for him. I doubt it will get you anywhere, but feel free to spew at them. Heck, they made you in the first place.

[Lithic]

WF can cost Clerics a hella lot of mana. ESP if you guys take the Adamantine body. Sure it gives you heavy fort, but it also makes healing cost out the wazzoo.

Adamantine body has nothing to do with the healing penalty of WF. You have no idea what you are talking about.

The only thing a warforged can do is get the healing enhancemnets (at low level) and healing amplification items (high level). And for the flame's sake dont take the heavy fort/immune to healing feat (which i think is what razorr was thinking of).

As for the OP, before a cleric gets the HEAL spell, they have a very good point. If you and a non-wf melee are both about equal in effectiveness, they are going to prefer to heal the non-wf. Accept that. Either compensate by giving the cleric or casters wands to keep you up, or by carrying lots of potions (which is admitedly not easy for a new player).

Now if a cleric refuses to heal you after they get HEAL, then either they think you are a sponge because you suck, or they are morons. Either way, try not to cross paths with them and everyone is happy.

[Bosco]

Start of Rant: I am fed up.

I play a WF THF Fighter currently and I am sick of certain (not all, or even most) Clerics telling me that they wont heal me because I burn up to much of *their* Mana. I might use the same arguement: That I use up too much of my hit points/wear out my weapons in order to protect the healers. I can get a mob of most other characters even without intimadate. Either by getting them to switch targets to me or by killing them outright. If I am taking the risk then why shouldnt I reap the benefit? Even WITH my handicap...

1. First of all DDO is a team based game not a solo game. If the healers start deciding who they will heal that doesnt make it a "group" game anymore. If someone does want to heal WF, then perhaps they shouldn't be a healer period.

2. And more the point, if a cleric refuses to heal me then under what obligation am I under to keep protecting him? If its "every man for himself" then I must say I certainly dont feel obliged to put myself at risk, use my own resources like pots and stuff in order to protect someone who will not recipocate. Many's the times Ive wanted to "OK you wont me heal me? Fine, I wont protect you, if the mobs attack you -you're are on your own!". Seems fair no?

The WF heal penalty hurts -but WF have immunities that make up for it. So while other races are held, or weakened by poison or disease, or lvl drained. We can keep fighting at peak efficiency. Most players like having a WF Fighters, Barbs, or even Pallys around when facing Beholders.

3. And yes, I carry a good supply of repair pots/wands, I am working on getting Healing Amp items, and at least level II Healers Friend, although I have not yet decided on lvl III because its a large AP investment (with an at best 5% return) and at worst 0% return if Clerics refuse to help. So I can takecare of myself, I just think its unfair when I am expected to takecare of the healers but not the other way around.

End of Rant.

This is the reason I never took a WF past level 8 in a game til now. There is an even more diabolical solution now. The WF FVS- Decent thf melee capabilities, the best potential permanent DR in the game, and a big mana pool to waist on just you so you can tell the fleshies to bite it when they want a heal. Muhahaha.

[Impaqt]

ANy cleric that flat out refuses to heal warforged deserves to be left for dead.

THats a very closed minded player who is a detriment to the team.

Now.. I generally wont waste resources topping them up after a fight, but in the heat of battle, everyone is just a red bar most of the time to me.

[dopey69]

always have always will if i notice my heals are not doing much i have been known to send a tell or two saying that it would be nice if they at least take the first lvl of healers friend that way i could heal them better . i have a couple of wf's and take healers friend as soon as it comes available but then again I have 4 clerics

[RazorrX]

[quote=Lithic;2448099]Adamantine body has nothing to do with the healing penalty of WF. You have no idea what you are talking about.

The only thing a warforged can do is get the healing enhancemnets (at low level) and healing amplification items (high level). And for the flame's sake dont take the heavy fort/immune to healing feat (which i think is what razorr was thinking of).
[quote]

Yeah the heavy fort thing. Thought it was tied to Adamantine body. My bad. Never play droids, just have friends who play them.

Had a Warfrog in group who was bragging about how he could not get crit hit, etc. and watched the poor cleric go DRY trying to keep him alive.

In the clerics defense, (if the above is not enough an example of why some will not heal WF) I ran a von run with 3 WF, none and I repeat NONE brought their own healing, NONE told the anyone in group that they had no self healing, they did not offer to buy wands, etc. The groups spellcaster was a sorc. They did not ask him if he had Repair spells or wands. ALL of them had Heavy Fort. End result - after 3 wipes (where they still did not get healing) and the cleric, sorc and I bailed.

That was the last pug I think I ran in for a Loooonng time.

[Hellllboy]

What about WF Clerics? Are we just an abomination beyond all conflicts above discussed? (jk)

Honestly-My WF Cleric doesn’t mind healing WF in endgame questing-but I recall being mid game and struggling from time to time.

WF are kind of a balancing act-depending on how the person plays them-they can be great for contributing to a group. When played poorly-they can be a heavy burden. I can speak on this from experience-being on both sides of the argument.

The best suggestion I can make for a WF player is to try and be as independent as you can-if you get assistance from a group-Great! But do not rely on it.

[RazorrX]

The best suggestion I can make for a WF player is to try and be as independent as you can-if you get assistance from a group-Great! But do not rely on it.

That suggestion is good for ALL players.

A good cleric will always try to keep everyone alive. Some draw the line on stupid though, can't heal that.

My point is have a few runs like I mentioned and WF get a bad name. Just like any class, poor players can give a race/class a bad rep that extends beyond them.

[Timjc86]

I guess just add him/her to your list and stay away. It is counter-intuitive to let your group members die usually.

I will purposefully take my time healing another player if:

• He/she is not carrying his/her own weight and the ones who are are in trouble.
• I know the player can take a good bit more punishment before being in trouble.
• I know the fight's going to be over before the player dies (my healer is an elf FvS who tends to have scimitars in hand and swinging most of the time).
• If the player is a warforged... and there is a wizard/sorc in the group who has committed to taking care of that WF.

I was in Sins of Attrition the other day, and I continually let the WF barbarian drop to and even a little below half life, but that was only because I knew he could take at least another 15 or so solid hits before dying, while some squishier characters in the group dropped from full to dead in 4-5 hits. But if he was the only one taking damage, or we were out of combat, he got just as much healing as everyone else (he actually was my top healing priority if he came close to dying since he was the most effective killer in the group).

So assuming you were pulling your weight, you should have been getting the same healing priority as the rest of the group.

[Memnir]

WF can be expensive if played responsibly.
Show up with Repair potions, and lots of them. Let the cleic know that you'll top yourself off between fights, but to please heal you in a fight - let them know you took Healer's Friend (and take at least H'sF II) to make healing you easier on them. This tends to make a PUG cleric a lot happier, and not mind the healing as much.

Also, buy your own Repair wands especially if you are a class who cannot use it themselves. Hand them to an arcane caster, or decent UMD Bard, and ask them to heal if things get tight and the cleric is running low on spellpoints. This will also help the cleric feel better, and perhaps net you another source of healing in the thick of a fight. Expect these wands to walk away.

And lastly, if you meet a cleric who just flat-out refuses to heal a WF - leave the group, and know you probably just walked away from a really bad run with a really bad player. This tends to be a sure-fire sign of a noob.

[Impaqt]

I remeber my first experience with a cleric who made a big deal about not healing Warforged....

First he told me the "Could Not" heal me. To which I replied he certainly "Could" if he wanted to.

He then told me I was onmy own... To which I repleid..

Thats ok, I Am a Wizard after all....

ANyway... It was funier at the time

[WolfSpirit]

This is the reason I never took a WF past level 8 in a game til now. There is an even more diabolical solution now. The WF FVS- Decent thf melee capabilities, the best potential permanent DR in the game, and a big mana pool to waist on just you so you can tell the fleshies to bite it when they want a heal. Muhahaha.

I like your thinking, +1 rep for you my friend!
My Op is that everyone that plays a healer should be healing everyone equally. EXCEPT for those that play WF and don't attempt to heal themselves and DONT take any Healer Friend enhancements AT ALL. Your healer can't keep the party alive if ALL the spell points are spend on ONE character. So its the players responsibility to help other help themselves. ( Try to be polite in pointing this out if needed)
Also, do not EVER Expect a arcane caster to heal you. They may be able to, but very few are thinking about healing while playing. If your lucky or polite, A WIZARD may mem a repair spell for you if you ask to heal you between fights. Good luck with the Sorc. Unless that sorc is WF themselves.
On a side note, The only WF I play are Arcane Casters. The healing thing is partially to blame. (Though I did roll up a WF FvS like you Bosco, though I don't have the fortitude to level him with all my other lowbies)

[Firewall]

The thing is that in lower levels a WF would have to be twice as effective as a fleshie to justify spending double the amout of SP for healing him. Or in other words: If a cleric has to spend double the share of SP on healing a WF then someone else in the group can not get his share of it.

The other point is that indeed repairing WF should be an arcane spellcaster thing but usually people tend to ignore that fact.

When you want to be healed by a cleric in lower levels the Healers Friend enhancement is a must. As is the DR enhancement since it is difficult to keep up a WF when monster DPS is high and your healing spells are only half (or 65%) as effective.

In higher levels healing WF is usually no problem since a single heal spell should be able to bring a player to full health wether he is a fleshie or not.

Since i play mostly clerics i know what i'm talking about and i've been through PUGs with 3 WF in them too. But even from the perspective of a WF (though all WF i play are self-sufficient being a WF cleric, a WF wizard and a WF FvS) i can only advise in stocking repair pots and wands on lower levels, take DR and healers friend enhancements that can easily be exchanged in higher levels and always talk to the cleric and arcane casters in the group.
And just to mention it: I do heal WF.

Leo (c:

[THAC0]

You know.... 3 years ago... WFs had to deal with this...and today we still do. Not all Clerics think this way. And truth be told, the Clerics (or Bards, or Paladins or Wizards) who do take the time to overlook the 'cost' to keep WFs alive (so that they in turn won't be squished) are some of my best friends now in game.

But, after the long stigma of 'WFs suck the spell points from Clerics...' I've grown accustomed to being self reliant and NOT depend on others to heal me. I stock dozens of repair potions (usually 100+) at all times. And now with the ease of Hirelings.. when I am not in a group, I pop out my pocket NPC Wizard who not only fights along side and does what I say, but also heals me without complaining. Heck even my pocket Cleric heals me without complaining.

Anyhow, yes, it sucks people play their characters in ways that don't promote teamwork.

And truth be told, when a Cleric (or anyone) specifically calls out to me "I won't be healing you..." I simply say, "I didn't expect you to but since you feel it is necessary to point this out, I'll make sure to just fight the monsters attacking me and the others and ignore the ones on you." that usually gives the person a virtual slap in the face and gets them to realize how rude they were being (and gets a laugh from others in the group). Or, if the person is especially annoying, I just leave the group.

Not much advice here I suppose, but for what its worth, you are not the only WF to be singled out. There is an entire race of us out there who have been treated this way.

WFs need love too.

[ddoer]

Also, do not EVER Expect a arcane caster to heal you. They may be able to, but very few are thinking about healing while playing. If your lucky or polite, A WIZARD may mem a repair spell for you if you ask to heal you between fights. Good luck with the Sorc. Unless that sorc is WF themselves.
On a side note, The only WF I play are Arcane Casters. The healing thing is partially to blame. (Though I did roll up a WF FvS like you Bosco, though I don't have the fortitude to level him with all my other lowbies)

it's true. For my sorc, not that I can't repair you, but it won't be my priority or concern to repair unless i notice you are dying by chance or the cleric is running low in mana. Casters could do many other things to reduce damage to the party, and it's not really good to expect them to be a WF healer.

when I play my cleric,

• if there is a Wiz, Sorc, or Bard (with UMD) guy, I'll ask them to do repair works. Sometimes, they really will help. And I'll remind the wiz/sorc to repair the WF in game.
• I'll tell the WF that I'm not efficient in healing him (even if he has healer friend) and ask him to take care of himself. if there are more WF characters, no caster, and with barb in the party, i probably will tell them i won't heal the WF, too. In actual fights, I'll heal them, but it is better to lower their expectation and make them more careful to avoid taking damage.
• i usually form my own group and won't take more than one WF (unless there is an arcane caster), or barb. There are exceptional case for sure. if a WF is experienced, he knows to bring their own pots and won't expect cleric to heal him. I had an experience to run with 4 WF melees without any arcane caster and they chop down the mobs so fast and seldom get damage. It's unexpectedly more easy to heal than in a normal party

[xanvar]

I have been playing warforged since launch and I still get annoyed by the cleric that refuses to heal a warforged. I don't know how many times at lower levels I have went the entire quest killing the majority of monsters and receive 0 cure spells. Occasionally I get a cleric that uses divine healing which is nice compared to the normal 0 heals. I just smile a bit on the inside knowing that everyone must really be role players since warforged hate is very real for the campaign setting. Not to mention that in Xendrick warforged are pretty much viewed as property

[Narmolanya]

I prefer to play clerics for the most part and realy have not seen much of a problem healing WF, nor do I ever refuse to.

Using Divine Healing helps a lot. I mean realy this is a team game.

[Freeman]

I'll keep a good player up, no matter what race they are. At least the WF usually aren't as squishy as some others, so I'd rather deal with them then the players I refer to as "One-hit wonders". Those are the ones you have to repeatedly scrape off the end of an ogre's club.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

WF can cost Clerics a hella lot of mana. ESP if you guys take the Adamantine body. Sure it gives you heavy fort, but it also makes healing cost out the wazzoo.

You clearly don't understand the game. Adi body does not cost you more in healing NOR does it give heavy fort.

You also don't understand that the WF saves you SP but not being poisoned, getting stat damaged, or level drained.