Clerics + Warforged relations

[marshm1972]

Start of Rant: I am fed up.

I play a WF THF Fighter currently and I am sick of certain (not all, or even most) Clerics telling me that they wont heal me because I burn up to much of *their* Mana. I might use the same arguement: That I use up too much of my hit points/wear out my weapons in order to protect the healers. I can get a mob of most other characters even without intimadate. Either by getting them to switch targets to me or by killing them outright. If I am taking the risk then why shouldnt I reap the benefit? Even WITH my handicap...

1. First of all DDO is a team based game not a solo game. If the healers start deciding who they will heal that doesnt make it a "group" game anymore. If someone does want to heal WF, then perhaps they shouldn't be a healer period.

2. And more the point, if a cleric refuses to heal me then under what obligation am I under to keep protecting him? If its "every man for himself" then I must say I certainly dont feel obliged to put myself at risk, use my own resources like pots and stuff in order to protect someone who will not recipocate. Many's the times Ive wanted to "OK you wont me heal me? Fine, I wont protect you, if the mobs attack you -you're are on your own!". Seems fair no?

The WF heal penalty hurts -but WF have immunities that make up for it. So while other races are held, or weakened by poison or disease, or lvl drained. We can keep fighting at peak efficiency. Most players like having a WF Fighters, Barbs, or even Pallys around when facing Beholders.

3. And yes, I carry a good supply of repair pots/wands, I am working on getting Healing Amp items, and at least level II Healers Friend, although I have not yet decided on lvl III because its a large AP investment (with an at best 5% return) and at worst 0% return if Clerics refuse to help. So I can takecare of myself, I just think its unfair when I am expected to takecare of the healers but not the other way around.

End of Rant.

[RazorrX]

WF can cost Clerics a hella lot of mana. ESP if you guys take the Adamantine body. Sure it gives you heavy fort, but it also makes healing cost out the wazzoo.

Mages (wiz and sorc) are the class that gets Repair spells. Mages can use Repair Wands. The race was created by mages and is intended to be healed by them. Buy them repair wands and ask them to heal you after fights, may get you healed some and save the Cleric spell points.

Most Clerics I know will still try to keep you alive. IF you are taking way more damage than the other players I can see an issue (but that works if you are flesh or wood). It is good you have healers friend, if you really want Clerics to heal you - let them know you have it.

But basically game mechanics state that Clerics heal fleshies, Mages heal Droids.

So you should rant that the mage is not healing you, because it is a class feature for him. I doubt it will get you anywhere, but feel free to spew at them. Heck, they made you in the first place.

[Lithic]

WF can cost Clerics a hella lot of mana. ESP if you guys take the Adamantine body. Sure it gives you heavy fort, but it also makes healing cost out the wazzoo.

Adamantine body has nothing to do with the healing penalty of WF. You have no idea what you are talking about.

The only thing a warforged can do is get the healing enhancemnets (at low level) and healing amplification items (high level). And for the flame's sake dont take the heavy fort/immune to healing feat (which i think is what razorr was thinking of).

As for the OP, before a cleric gets the HEAL spell, they have a very good point. If you and a non-wf melee are both about equal in effectiveness, they are going to prefer to heal the non-wf. Accept that. Either compensate by giving the cleric or casters wands to keep you up, or by carrying lots of potions (which is admitedly not easy for a new player).

Now if a cleric refuses to heal you after they get HEAL, then either they think you are a sponge because you suck, or they are morons. Either way, try not to cross paths with them and everyone is happy.

[Impaqt]

ANy cleric that flat out refuses to heal warforged deserves to be left for dead.

THats a very closed minded player who is a detriment to the team.

Now.. I generally wont waste resources topping them up after a fight, but in the heat of battle, everyone is just a red bar most of the time to me.

[dopey69]

always have always will if i notice my heals are not doing much i have been known to send a tell or two saying that it would be nice if they at least take the first lvl of healers friend that way i could heal them better . i have a couple of wf's and take healers friend as soon as it comes available but then again I have 4 clerics

[Fenrisulven6]

ANy cleric that flat out refuses to heal warforged deserves to be left for dead.

Agreed. But why does the heal burden fall to the cleric and not the wiz/sorcs?

Seems like a double standard. Why not grief the mages who dont carry repair spells?

[adamkatt]

Agreed. But why does the heal burden fall to the cleric and not the wiz/sorcs?

Seems like a double standard. Why not grief the mages who dont carry repair spells?

I find i need to let the clerics/sorc/wiv/fs know i have 4 loh on my new wf paladin and that i will let them know if im in trouble!

Being an experineced player ive always tried to be prepared.

[Braegan]

Agreed. But why does the heal burden fall to the cleric and not the wiz/sorcs?

Seems like a double standard. Why not grief the mages who dont carry repair spells?

Cant agree with this. If you are an arcane caster that is not WF there is no reason for you to have repair spells. (My sorc does carry reconstruct scrolls for those times when needed) - But no way can I expect an arcane who is not WF to repair the inferior race (somewhat kidding...ok I'm not WF suck )

[RazorrX]

[quote=Lithic;2448099]Adamantine body has nothing to do with the healing penalty of WF. You have no idea what you are talking about.

The only thing a warforged can do is get the healing enhancemnets (at low level) and healing amplification items (high level). And for the flame's sake dont take the heavy fort/immune to healing feat (which i think is what razorr was thinking of).
[quote]

Yeah the heavy fort thing. Thought it was tied to Adamantine body. My bad. Never play droids, just have friends who play them.

Had a Warfrog in group who was bragging about how he could not get crit hit, etc. and watched the poor cleric go DRY trying to keep him alive.

In the clerics defense, (if the above is not enough an example of why some will not heal WF) I ran a von run with 3 WF, none and I repeat NONE brought their own healing, NONE told the anyone in group that they had no self healing, they did not offer to buy wands, etc. The groups spellcaster was a sorc. They did not ask him if he had Repair spells or wands. ALL of them had Heavy Fort. End result - after 3 wipes (where they still did not get healing) and the cleric, sorc and I bailed.

That was the last pug I think I ran in for a Loooonng time.

[Hellllboy]

What about WF Clerics? Are we just an abomination beyond all conflicts above discussed? (jk)

Honestly-My WF Cleric doesn’t mind healing WF in endgame questing-but I recall being mid game and struggling from time to time.

WF are kind of a balancing act-depending on how the person plays them-they can be great for contributing to a group. When played poorly-they can be a heavy burden. I can speak on this from experience-being on both sides of the argument.

The best suggestion I can make for a WF player is to try and be as independent as you can-if you get assistance from a group-Great! But do not rely on it.

[RazorrX]

The best suggestion I can make for a WF player is to try and be as independent as you can-if you get assistance from a group-Great! But do not rely on it.

That suggestion is good for ALL players.

A good cleric will always try to keep everyone alive. Some draw the line on stupid though, can't heal that.

My point is have a few runs like I mentioned and WF get a bad name. Just like any class, poor players can give a race/class a bad rep that extends beyond them.

[adamkatt]

[QUOTE=RazorrX;2448135][quote=Lithic;2448099]Adamantine body has nothing to do with the healing penalty of WF. You have no idea what you are talking about.

The only thing a warforged can do is get the healing enhancemnets (at low level) and healing amplification items (high level). And for the flame's sake dont take the heavy fort/immune to healing feat (which i think is what razorr was thinking of).

Yeah the heavy fort thing. Thought it was tied to Adamantine body. My bad. Never play droids, just have friends who play them.

Had a Warfrog in group who was bragging about how he could not get crit hit, etc. and watched the poor cleric go DRY trying to keep him alive.

In the clerics defense, (if the above is not enough an example of why some will not heal WF) I ran a von run with 3 WF, none and I repeat NONE brought their own healing, NONE told the anyone in group that they had no self healing, they did not offer to buy wands, etc. The groups spellcaster was a sorc. They did not ask him if he had Repair spells or wands. ALL of them had Heavy Fort. End result - after 3 wipes (where they still did not get healing) and the cleric, sorc and I bailed.

That was the last pug I think I ran in for a Loooonng time.

Being a bad player who dosent carry a single heal pot for after battle is not a WF thing....

[cardmj1]

I play clerics as my main toons and then I have a wf barbie and a wf sorc.

imo, the issue isn't the wf and their hp alone. It is also the cleric's fault. If a cleric is not able to heal a wf with healer's friend II or up without using half their mana, then that tells me that they are not using their action points to increase their healing capabilities. What are you spending your action points on? Extra Turn Undead? Seriously, I started this game as a cleric running with my hubby who played a wf barbie. Even at level 6, I could take him from 25% health to full in 3 to 4 cure serious. I think some clerics out their who are complaining need to take a look at themselves instead of pointing the finger at the wf.

And another thing, how are you healing dwarven barbarians who have roughly the same amount of hp as a wf barbie? Any trouble there for you?

[cdemeritt]

Had a Warfrog in group who was bragging about how he could not get crit hit, etc. and watched the poor cleric go DRY trying to keep him alive.

A War Frog !? When did we get those, and how much favor is needed to unlock them?

[Lorien_the_First_One]

WF can cost Clerics a hella lot of mana. ESP if you guys take the Adamantine body. Sure it gives you heavy fort, but it also makes healing cost out the wazzoo.

You clearly don't understand the game. Adi body does not cost you more in healing NOR does it give heavy fort.

You also don't understand that the WF saves you SP but not being poisoned, getting stat damaged, or level drained.

[Freeman]

You also don't understand that the WF saves you SP but not being poisoned, getting stat damaged, or level drained.

Unless he's that cleric that is always giving my WF Neutralize Poison and Remove Disease, then hitting me with Restoration when I say I'm down a level.

[karnokvolrath]

Alright, i play a strait healbot cleric, and ill say this. Heal the WF already. I love WF because there DR means less topping off, usally when they do get hit its on a crit, half there life drops. I throw a cure crit or a heal if there uber HP WF. And as said before, no disease, no stat damage, no posion, not to mention they just flat out pwn things. If your a cleric that doesnt heal and reading this (i dobt you are because you prolly dont read the WF section) realise these things are your best friend. Sure they DO take alot of SP to heal, but in the end i think its about the same, i actully prefear healing WF because of the DR as stated aboove.

[Mystic511]

I think the problem is that there are just bad warforged players out there ruining it for everyone.

I just started a warforged paladin--My other chars are cleric and fvs. I used to HATE healing warforged, because they would just run around and think they were invincible, draw way too much aggro, and then ask me to to heal them when I had 4 other people to watch over. Basically, they're like any other idiotic player except they take twice as much sp to heal.

But now that I am playing a WF myself, I appreciate how HARD it is to be good, but it can be done. I find myself never dropping below 50% health and barely ever needing a heal. I usually never even use my LOHs on myself.

Personally, since i'm so attuned to being a healer myself, I usually just play "healer guardian" when I'm in a group with a cleric and fleshies. I haven't had issues with cleric love.

[zooble]

i burned 50+ heal scrolls and 2 shop pots healing a warforged tank in vod fully specced in healing. how many did the other cleric use? who knows... there was also a wiz that helped. you can supply those thanks.

any other tank could have tanked it fine... it didn't have to be a warforged and i would have saved a large amount of coin. that could be said about every other dungeon in the game... they arn't required for anything and any other race can replace them with no down side

i can protect myself just fine thanks... or if you must insist... any other class can protect me just fine and use less resources

any immunity you think is crucial can be bestowed/cured by a cleric spell,equip, or even a clickie so what were you bringing to the group again?

if you want to play warforged then play a sorc/cleric/fvs/wiz and heal yourself... you are not bringing anything to the group if you are draining excessive sp and the group is better off without you.

i dont mind tossing the above mentioned combos heals in the heat of battle considering they always heal themselves inbetween fights

if you drain my sp then afaik you can leave the group so a more efficient fleshie can join

[xtchizobr]

i burned 50+ heal scrolls and 2 shop pots healing a warforged tank in vod fully specced in healing. how many did the other cleric use? who knows... there was also a wiz that helped. you can supply those thanks.

any other tank could have tanked it fine... it didn't have to be a warforged and i would have saved a large amount of coin. that could be said about every other dungeon in the game... they arn't required for anything and any other race can replace them with no down side

i can protect myself just fine thanks... or if you must insist... any other class can protect me just fine and use less resources

any immunity you think is crucial can be bestowed/cured by a cleric spell,equip, or even a clickie so what were you bringing to the group again?

if you want to play warforged then play a sorc/cleric/fvs/wiz and heal yourself... you are not bringing anything to the group if you are draining excessive sp and the group is better off without you.

i dont mind tossing the above mentioned combos heals in the heat of battle considering they always heal themselves inbetween fights

if you drain my sp then afaik you can leave the group so a more efficient fleshie can join

tell me all about how you can CAST a SPELL to cure or buff for an immunity. i wanna hear all about that, it sounds really expensive for meatbags to deal with stat drains and poisons and intimate diseases from your mom... not to mention being raised from the grave after she deathray'd [with] them. we'll just completely ignore the existence of dispel magic and the effect it has on your expensive buffs to protect against things that warforged are naturally and permanently immune to. well, i guess we already did talk about it, though, huh?

the way suet-sack clerics talk, you'd get the impression that they consider themselves works of divine art gifted to eberron for the enjoyment of otherwise-less-fortunate sycophantic mortals. maybe warforged don't excrete copious amounts of marble, but we are, as a race, no more or less deserving of compassion and consideration than any other sentient creature that is forced to bear your company. do try to keep in mind that healing is simply a function to be performed for the good the whole party, not a glorious feature of your splendid and august presence.

how dare -- how dare you demand that players restrict their gameplay to only those classes capable of self healing? if your SP is so incredibly valuable to you, i would have thought you'd do the most reasonable thing and simply not spend it on anyone. then you can explain to everyone with rational and carefully thought out arguments why you chose to play a cleric that just sits there and complains.

resource management is something that adults learn over the course of maturation, and usually this is actuated by the process whereby they see that they had chosen to be wasteful and pay the consequences. that is, if you're using a lot of heal scrolls, you're doing it wrong. expenses are normal for everyone. clerics aren't unique and ultra special in that. considerate use of consumables is to be expected for the good of the group. if you could protect yourself just fine, why aren't you soloing the dungeon?

do please let me know the names of all your characters so i can very carefully laminate their names in large font on my wall. when i sit down to enjoy this wonderful game, DDO, i want to be absolutely certain that you have no part in it.