Clerics + Warforged relations

[jasonchrist]

Coming from a pen and paper background, I think it is best interest to keep everyone in the party alive; race shouldn't be an issue. Prioritize decisions in order to keep the party alive; when forced into a chain healing situation or dealing with lack of resources, warforged characters won't mind being healed last or falling back.

[Fenrisulven6]

I can agree with this as far as wizards go, but not so much for sorcerers. To me, it feels selfish on my part to ask them to spend one of their limited slots on a spell that benefits them only when I'm around

Well, I recently made that same argument - that I shouldn't be expected to carry Haste on my 6th lvl Sorc. I lost.


Acutally Khayvan, you prob would have been one of those people to defend me, with something akin to: "screw them, take whatever spell you want"

I guess the problem is more about the people who 1) insist I carry Haste as my only 3rd lvl slot, but 2) refuse to carry repairs for one of theirs.

[Delt]

Healers Friend is for sissies. Probably the only point it matters is for something like ToD, if you plan to be tanking in random groups...so I don't see a big reason to waste APs before that. But then again, every warforged I build has some degree of self healing.

That said, I met my first "cleric" in a long time that "didn't heal warforged" (even said so in his bio!) in a BAM elite PUG just the other day. He was a poor healer and many fleshies died that day. I think warforged highlight the deficiencies in poorly played healers (over healing, poor gear, newbie, etc), so to a certain degree, I understand the bias.

[Khayvan]

Acutally Khayvan, you prob would have been one of those people to defend me, with something akin to: "screw them, take whatever spell you want"

More than likely I would have been. I very much believe in people playing their characters how they want, I don't want anyone telling me how to play mine so why would I force my views on others?

My sorc buddy hasn't learned Haste yet and he's almost 9th level. Actually, I don't think he's learned a single spell that doesn't directly hurt the bad guys. But that's what's fun to him so more power to him. We're doing fine and having a good time. If he never learns Haste... oh well. Likewise, if he never picks up a repair spell... oh well.

[AylinIsAwesome]

Kalari said it better than I can:

"I think if you're a member of any party and have the spell room you should carry a repair spell or reconstruct.

Its not right to expect the clerics to heal because they have heal spells but not expect an arcane who can cast a repair not to. Thats such a blatant double standard. ..anyone who claims to be a team member who will whine if a cleric does not heal them but can in another breath say "well I can cast a repair or reconstruct but why should I im not a wf" is just as bad as a non self sufficient type to me."

My sorc will only have three level 6 spell slots. If I had more, I'd more than likely take it. But as it is, I won't have enough spells.

Now, does that mean I won't heal Warforged at all? NO.

I said I won't take the Reconstruct spell. I plan to carry both wands or repair and scrolls of Reconstruct when I get to higher levels with her (she's still new - less than two weeks old), and I carry wands of Repair Light and Moderate damage. So far, you've still not made a valid case as to why I should drop one of my planned level 6 spells for Reconstruct. So why should I?

[The_Metal_Monster]

Some clerics just hate us , get over it

[Khayvan]

I said I won't take the Reconstruct spell. I plan to carry both wands or repair and scrolls of Reconstruct when I get to higher levels with her (she's still new - less than two weeks old), and I carry wands of Repair Light and Moderate damage. So far, you've still not made a valid case as to why I should drop one of my planned level 6 spells for Reconstruct. So why should I?

You should if you always run with a WF party member, and keeping said WF standing is more beneficial to the party than whatever spell you would take instead. If you PuG a lot I don't see it being worth the slot, if you're going to use scrolls/wands as needed. I myself wouldn't ask more than that from you.

[Danmor]

[irony]
Fleshy sorcerers and wizards shouldn't be expected to carry reconstruct, after all they can't use it on themselves.
So I think the clerics should stop carrying raise dead/resurrect/true resurrect, because they can't use it on themselves after all...
[/irony]

[cdemeritt]

Had a Warfrog in group who was bragging about how he could not get crit hit, etc. and watched the poor cleric go DRY trying to keep him alive.

A War Frog !? When did we get those, and how much favor is needed to unlock them?

[Khayvan]

[irony]
Fleshy sorcerers and wizards shouldn't be expected to carry reconstruct, after all they can't use it on themselves.
So I think the clerics should stop carrying raise dead/resurrect/true resurrect, because they can't use it on themselves after all...
[/irony]

IMO:

Any cleric who gives a **** about the other party members will carry those spells because they are always useful to the party.

Since the wizard is such a great toolbox, any wizards should learn the spell and be expected to use it when it benefits the party.

Sorcs are the ones with the real decision to make with their limited spell slots. By that level they should be able to judge for themselves what spell is going to benefit them the most. I do, however, expect them to use scrolls and wands to relieve some of the burden from the cleric. To me that's just good teamwork.

Is this point of view really so alien?

[AylinIsAwesome]

You should if you always run with a WF party member, and keeping said WF standing is more beneficial to the party than whatever spell you would take instead. If you PuG a lot I don't see it being worth the slot, if you're going to use scrolls/wands as needed. I myself wouldn't ask more than that from you.

Most of my guild is fleshy (only a few people have Warforged, and most of those are rarely played alts). I mostly just PuG even then.


Now if I did run with a Warforged guildie almost constantly, I'd probably pick up Reconstruct asap, since keeping my (near-static) teammate up would provide a nice "meat shield" for me, so I could throw out more disintegrates with less trouble.

But I don't, which is why I use scrolls and wands instead.

[Danmor]

it was irony, not sarcasm...
I do think that casters that can arbitrarily change their spells should be able to switch in spells that heal WF. If you can't switch out spells any time you like, it's a completely different thing.

But arguing "I don't prepare that spell because it doesn't benefit me" is kind of ridiculous. I made above post to highlight that

[Krawn]

I've recently been playing warforged monks. They normally take all of Monk improved recovery and a level or 2 of healers friend. This puts me up to 75-90% divine healing. (possibility of 105% divine healing if I took all levels of healers friend)

I mention this at the beginning of groups... I still find that most clerics ONLY hit me with divine healing. To top that off they hit me with it at the worst of times, when I'm low on HP and full of Ki. Divine healing overwrites and/or blocks Wholeness of body !

On my 90% monk I've had clerics let me set at 10% health forever...

Oh well. Clerics just see Warforged and use it as an excuse to whine and whine and not heal.

[DANTEIL]

My solution as a Wizard is to accumulate various Repair Critical/Repair Serious wands and try to act as a secondary healer whenever I group with a Warforged. Since I don't have a regular group that includes WF, I have never seen the need to pick up Reconstruct or Mass Repair etc. However, that being said, if I were asked to change out spells at a shrine because of some particular situation, then in all likelihood I would be willing to do that. It's just never happened yet.

[Khayvan]

it was irony, not sarcasm...

Yeah, I get you.

It's just that the whole "I don't heal WF" thing baffles my mind. The clerics I run with, even at low levels, have no problems keeping me healed and having plenty of mana to keep everybody else healed and pass out buffs and toss the occasional offensive spell.

Just last night, I was scanning the bio of a 14th level cleric and it said right there "WF bring your own healing. I'm not wasting my entire mana bar because you made a @#$% toon." I mean... seriously?

[cdemeritt]

but no class will outheal a cleric.

Actually, a healing specc'd Favor Soul probably will. (haven't played one yet, but...)Sorry, a nitpick, but....

Calling me a "healbot" -- as an insult -- is nothing more than an effort to diminish one of the most vital functions and skills of a Cleric player. Yes, I heal.

Calling anyone a Healbot is not an insult, no more than calling a bard a spellsinger or warchanter is an insult. It's the description of your path. I have a healbot cleric and a battle cleric... They are each fun in their own way, but not the same... However, both will heal * ANY party member who is in trouble. However, if the WF arcane can't be bothered to help themselves, I get annoyed much like I do with a bard/rogue/ranger/FvS/ or other class that is capable to heal themselves some, and wont. Don't mind healing or keeping people alive during a fight, but at least top yourselves off.

[DnD3]

As a wf barb I have to deal with a lot of nub ass clerics(level 10 now and first wf toon), apparently I'm not worth healing because they loose 25% healing on me, I mean im not unreasonable, if other party members are in trouble then they heal them that's ok, I understand the human fighter having more priority on healing when we both are dying. I do love it when I see them whine when they die and demand that I help them...(Really If im 15 hp left and can't lift a finger to heal me with the almost a full bar don't expect me to die for you=/)

[MystDragon]

See what Fattiest was trying to explain to you yet you confirmed for me alone with that post is "you are a heal bot." whether you want to admit it or not.

Clerics may have the ability to heal, but if the developers only wanted us to do so we would not have crowd control and killing spells.

Point blank stupid play is not a fleshie or wf issue and if your having trouble healing a wf ask "hey do you have any healers friend." If they do they are at least making an effort for your healing to help them. IF they dont dont worry about them any good player knows they need to do their part to make a run go smooth.

But the attitude your showing here is exactly what many of us who enjoy playing healers do not want to promote. We are not there to just heal, and I sure as hell dont feel bad if someone dies due to their own carelessness. If its something I caused which is rare but lets say I pulled aggro of too many mobs with a searing light or blade barrier didnt quite pack a punch and the party suffered then yes its my fault.

But someone dying? im going with its that players fault. We need to stop saying "theres no I in team" if we really dont mean that. And many posters here will be the same who say "keep with the group and dont zerg pen and paper team mentality speak" yet will in another breath say they wont help another party member out because of their player race type. That to me is sad, but if its how you wish to run fine.

The rest of us will heal forges because anyone joining my party is there to succeed, if they are not then and only then will they be ignored by me. I dont heal stupid period.

This was really well-worded - +1.

When I'm playing my cleric, I use the party bar to monitor player's health as it's the easiest way for me. I don't stand there wasting time going "What race is this guy? Is this the WF?" I don't have the most uber-decked healing items in the game (yet ) and I have never had a problem keeping WF on their feet in comparison with other races. This is especially true if the cleric has Unyielding Sovereignty. The only times it can even be considered an issue to me is really low levels where it simply takes more castings.

On higher levels - I don't have to worry about nuetralizing their poison, removing disease, or casting waterbreathing on them either. And Heal works well on them, just for a few less points. To me it's just one more thing to complain about.

On the other side of the fence:

On my WF Barbarian - I always carry repair pots and it's a bit of an expense - but I consider self healing of every type a mandate for all of my characters. I also carry repair wands as well. I can't use them - but I can give them to those who can and ask them to please use them to top me off. It's really not difficult.

[Anderei]

I have much more a problem with wizard-fvs relation.

Was in a party in which both wizards refused to stock a repair spell to help to keep that WF-Barb alive in Whisperdooms, since "healing is your task FvS-boy"

[Khayvan]

Was in a party in which both wizards refused to stock a repair spell to help to keep that WF-Barb alive in Whisperdooms, since "healing is your task FvS-boy"

That seems very ignorant on the part of the wizards. If there's even a chance they may be in a PuG then they should learn a repair spell and use it when needed. If somebody isn't going to take advantage of the versatility of a wizard, why roll one in the first place?

Did you try to offer them wands to use on you?