Rogue Acrobats can take a Flying Leap

[Vivanto]

Poisons come in three flavors...why not three flavors of Showtime?

Stacking run speed.
Head in the Clouds.
Step/Leap.

Keep the skills/dex buff, split out the run speed/vertical leap/horizonal leaps into different clickies off the same ability.

Leave the 1 minute timer where it is, keep the cooldown, and you could get a couple of these to stack for extra Showtiminess.

Good idea, but since showtime is a tier 1 ability of the prc and we are talking about revamping it, what would tier 3 give?

[SableShadow]

Good idea, but since showtime is a tier 1 ability of the prc and we are talking about revamping it, what would tier 3 give?

Dunno, just talking about jumping atm.

Pre-Mod 9, I would have said 'Unbalancing Strike', but I wager they're planning on putting that on the acro ring/belt set as an Acro 3 unlock rather than on Acro 3 itself.

[Timjc86]

I'd really like it if assassins got a similar ability as well. They could call it something new and original like, umm.... *ponders* ... Shadow Step!



I really would love it if I could Abundant Step on my Assassin simply because that would be awesome. But the idea as presented for Acrobats certainly makes sense, and they do need a cool tier 3 ability/effect.

[mashedpotato82]

climb...

[Twerpp]

I think it would be cool if you could hide in plain sight/ shadow jump with this ability. Imagine you disappear from sight in combat and are instantly scooted forward backwards or sideways similar to the speed/distance FvS would leap of faith. It would be a useful ability and a way to emulate the Shadowdancer PrC. Theyve already got the # of eyeballs mechanism to determine where shadows are in-game.

[drac317]

...unfettered leap:acrobats are not hindered by the restraints(+40 jump) like other toons and leap to there fullest potentiel.

[Lithic]

Favored souls can already spam leap of faith at almost zero penalty (Spamming the whole way in coal chamber uses about 5% of your SP, insignificant IMO), why not let thief acrobats do the same? Thief acrobats already take a huge penalty, namely that they can't be assasins, so throw them a bone.

[Samadhi]

And make it worthless you mean?

Nah, just make it a 6 sec cooldown at no cost and I'd be balanced.

I'm with this idea. A FvS can already spam this ability 24/7 by the level they get it; the mana usage is completely irrelevant; and most monks have no issue either. And these two get it automatically. 6sec cooldown ability for a tier III enhancement does not sound even remotely game-breaking for spending AP and for being balanced against an automatic vorpal with any weapon on the other side of the rogue tree.

(Definitely a good idea though for an Acrobat ability).

[Angelus_dead]

Thief acrobats already take a huge penalty, namely that they can't be assasins, so throw them a bone.

Hypothetically Acrobat3 provides several other valuable features. And in addition, an objective look at Assassin3 will probably conclude that it is overpowered and should be nerfed, instead of forcing other options to be raised to parity.

[Samadhi]

Hypothetically Acrobat3 provides several other valuable features. And in addition, an objective look at Assassin3 will probably conclude that it is overpowered and should be nerfed, instead of forcing other options to be raised to parity.

The thing about assassin3 is that it is not of value when it really counts (i.e. in raising DPS against raid bosses). Sure, it is handy, but it is only situationally useful against lower end mobs.

The same could be said for having this ability added for acrobat III. Sure it is handy - but it isn't going to break the game to have the acrobat on par with FvS or monks.

This is a great idea to add to acrobats - but I really think the cooldown timer is plenty to balance it along with the FvS that can do it infinitely.

[Angelus_dead]

The thing about assassin3 is that it is not of value when it really counts (i.e. in raising DPS against raid bosses).

Actually assassin3 has a useful ability to decrease the DPS of a raid boss, but that is probably a bug...

Sure, it is handy, but it is only situationally useful against lower end mobs.

Have you tried it in epic?

[Samadhi]

Actually assassin3 has a useful ability to decrease the DPS of a raid boss, but that is probably a bug...


Have you tried it in epic?

All of my rogues are acrobats; so realistically, no I am not fully in touch with any bugs etc associated with assassin. Does it bypass the DW mobs have in epic? Or are you specifically referring to assassin ring in combination with assassin PrE - which is somewhat of a separate issue as to whether the enhancement itself is overpowered, although still relevant (none of my melees are using acrobat set either so I am not familiar with proc rate / other values associated with it).

Regardless, even if there are things about assassin3 that make it better than I am aware, this doesn't necessarily lessen the fact that 1) FvS can already fly non-stop so 2) this is a perfectly sensible addition for an acrobat III to have as well. There are times this ability has definitely saved my butt - but since it adds nothing really in the way of offense - I can't see how it would be gamebreaking to have it on an automatic/timered ability.

[Zaal]

Number of Uses based on Dex Modifier and they recharge like Smites. 1 every 90 seconds.

I like it.

hmmm what's dex without the str to actually propell

[Zaal]

...an objective look at Assassin3 will probably conclude that it is overpowered and should be nerfed...

How so?

[AylinIsAwesome]

Hypothetically Acrobat3 provides several other valuable features. And in addition, an objective look at Assassin3 will probably conclude that it is overpowered and should be nerfed, instead of forcing other options to be raised to parity.

I say before they nerf assassin (which would make for a sad, sad Aylin), they nerf Tempest. Seriously...

[Angelus_dead]

How so?

Assassin3 grants your attacks Vorpal and Seeker2. Vorpal is a +5 weapon enhancement and Seeker is +1. By one simplistic conversion, they're getting bonuses that are better than +12 strength. Or if you think about it directly, getting a 5% chance to kill monsters in addition to all the other damage you're inflicting is hugely powerful.

And of course, there's the method of direct experimentation: Play a quest with two rogues in the party and record how many kills each one gets. Then train one of them on assasin3, and try it again. Then repeat it once more with the non-assassin rogue not even bothering to attack. The increase in the ability to fight non-boss monsters is barely sane.

Of course, I don't need to tell you this, because you already made a thread to point out how overpowered Assassin3 is. Right in the title you indicated that it's the kind of thing a developer might want to nerf.

[Zaal]

Assassin3 grants your attacks Vorpal and Seeker2. Vorpal is a +5 weapon enhancement and Seeker is +1. By one simplistic conversion, they're getting bonuses that are better than +12 strength. Or if you think about it directly, getting a 5% chance to kill monsters in addition to all the other damage you're inflicting is hugely powerful.

And of course, there's the method of direct experimentation: Play a quest with two rogues in the party and record how many kills each one gets. Then train one of them on assasin3, and try it again. Then repeat it once more with the non-assassin rogue not even bothering to attack. The increase in the ability to fight non-boss monsters is barely sane.

Of course, I don't need to tell you this, because you already made a thread to point out how overpowered Assassin3 is. Right in the title you indicated that it's the kind of thing a developer might want to nerf.

I made a point of how cool ranged combat was with respect to Assassin III and as all good things generally do, come to an end. Even for my ranged repeater rogue build, the numbers really need to be in the right place for it to work. I do NOT believe Assassin III is over powered. I DO believe for my build it plays out really well.

This other rogue in your test case... To what build are you compaing it to?

I'm also seeing some inconsistency... Per you, Ranged Repeater Rogue is "next to useless" and now it's "overpowered" - you are kinda hard to follow at times.

[WeaselKing]

Now that Favored Souls have been out long enough that we've all at least seen what Leap of Faith is like, it is clear that the Acrobat specialty is going to have to get a similar feature if it is to be worthy of the name. The natural place for it would be tier 3.

The Abundant Step and Leap of Faith of the Monk and FVS classes are the premiere acrobatic movement abilities in DDO, and no character without something similar can provide nearly that level of ability at reaching inaccessible places, which is thematically the focus of a Thief-Acrobat.

Because Rogues don't have an expendable resource like Ki or Spellpoints, another kind of penalty must be added to prevent spamming the ability. I suggest doubling the cooldown from what FVS has, and also debuffing yourself from the strain, causing a -2 penalty to Strength, Dexterity, and skills for 10 seconds.

How about if the ability requires that you have a Q-staff equipped, with which to propel yourself in the air?

[Angelus_dead]

I'm also seeing some inconsistency... Per you, Ranged Repeater Rogue is "next to useless" and now it's "overpowered" - you are kinda hard to follow at times.

That is completely untrue.

There is nothing at all complicated or inconsistent in this reasoning:
Adding an overpowered enhancement to a weak character may result in a character who isn't weak anymore.

[Zaal]

That is completely untrue.

There is nothing at all complicated or inconsistent in this reasoning:
Adding an overpowered enhancement to a weak character may result in a character who isn't weak anymore.

lol - so now my toon isn't weak? No longed "next to useless"? Quite pricelesss

And as I recall, the enhancement was already avail (or at least in lamannia) when you said it was weak For me, the enhancement is part of the build... I was already on the chain when you said, paraphrased, "repeater builds are next to useless".