Elven sneaky Tempest/Kensai concept - is this possible?

[GlassJaw]

Hi all, I've been thinking about a build concept and was just wondering if it would be a) possible and b) viable.

The concept is an elven Ftr 12/Rng 6/Rog 2 Kensai/Tempest that dual wields scimitars, takes the Shadow Dragonmarks, and maxes out Hide and Move Silently.

Feats: TWF chain, Spring Attack, Power Attack, etc - the usual stuff - in addition to the dragonmark feats.

Skills: Max Hide, Move Silently, and UMD, as well as ranks in Balance, Jump, Intimidate, and Tumble.

Basically, the idea is to have solid DPS, be self-sufficient and self-healing, good at soloing, and provide other tactical options to a party with stealth abilities.

I think one of the biggest challenges for a build like this is when to take the class levels because of the skill requirements. Ideally, you want the range levels as soon as possible to get the bonus feats and Tempest but that won't leave may skill points with the later fighter levels to put into Hide and Move Silently.

Thoughts?

[Angelus_dead]

Basically, the idea is to have solid DPS, be self-sufficient and self-healing, good at soloing, and provide other tactical options to a party with stealth abilities.

It's an acceptable character, but be warned that the Hide and Move Silently skills don't really help it at useful tasks.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Easier with a 14 Int. But doable without.
And you don't need max stealth skills.
My Wiz was able to sneak by anything in the Vale with only 9 ranks in hide/MS. Just use equpiment to boost it up. 28-38 are good target numbers. Actually 28 is ok for most monsters.

Spot is important though. But again a good spot item can go a long way too.

Of course the smartest tactic in DDO is just to charge into every fight and have a Cleric spam heals on you.

[jakeelala]

wait. can you take 2 different PrE's like tempest AND kensai?

[doppleganger]

wait. can you take 2 different PrE's like tempest AND kensai?

Yes you can take multiple PrE's, as long as they are not from the same class. So, tempest (Ranger) and Kensai(fighter) is ok.

[Emili]

wait. can you take 2 different PrE's like tempest AND kensai?

Yes, kensei II/tempest I are possible as are other combos... what you cannot do is take two within same class... I.E. Deepwoods/Arcane Archer... etc...

[Depravity]

Easier with a 14 Int. But doable without.
And you don't need max stealth skills.
My Wiz was able to sneak by anything in the Vale with only 9 ranks in hide/MS. Just use equpiment to boost it up. 28-38 are good target numbers. Actually 28 is ok for most monsters.

Spot is important though. But again a good spot item can go a long way too.

Of course the smartest tactic in DDO is just to charge into every fight and have a Cleric spam heals on you.

Half rank move/hide are both quite useable for pretty much everything (including saving skill points for umd). Classic ghoste build gets along fine with nothing but wizard levels.

Iirc, 38 was the target for ghaele clerics in running with the devils, and 46-48 for monks in the reaver's refuge quest whose name I forgot.

My stealth (pure) wizzy has low 40s, and hasn't had any (stealth related) difficulty (razzenfratzin mariliths. ) in any of the shavarath quests, although I have yet to do most of them on elite.

[spifflove]

Viable, even high powered. But true seeing will make it less useful at high level. A fun build altogether.

[GlassJaw]

Cool, thanks for the responses so far.

For a build like this, what is the best level advancement? Rogue first obviously but would you take all six ranger levels after that to get the bonus feats and Tempest ASAP?

Staggering the Ranger levels would allow for better skill allocation but that would seriously delay Imp TWF and Tempest.

[spifflove]

Cool, thanks for the responses so far.

For a build like this, what is the best level advancement? Rogue first obviously but would you take all six ranger levels after that to get the bonus feats and Tempest ASAP?

Staggering the Ranger levels would allow for better skill allocation but that would seriously delay Imp TWF and Tempest.

Ya it hurts leveling but you want the skill points in the long run. Skill points are one thing you will never get again and spending cross points hurts badly. I think you are really looking for more direction so here we go:

18 str
16 dex
12 con
12 intel

or if 28 points

16 str
16 dex
12 con
14 intel

1)dragonmark
3) dodge
6)dragonmasrk
9)spring attack
12)ic slash
15) dragonmark
18) otwf

f1) weapon focus
f2) weapon spec
f4) mobility
f6) gwf
f8) gwspec
f10) greater two weapon fighting
f12) power attack

Kinda tight but thats the cost of dragonmarks

rogue
fighter
ranger
fighter
ranger
fighter
ranger
fighter
ranger
fighter
ranger
fighter
ranger
fighter
rogue
fighter

toughness is something you sorta need but I dont see where it could fit. Saves will be a problem w/ some mitigation by elf enchantment resistance.

[Ephemeral]

Ya it hurts leveling but you want the skill points in the long run. Skill points are one thing you will never get again and spending cross points hurts badly. I think you are really looking for more direction so here we go:

18 str
16 dex
12 con
12 intel

or if 28 points

16 str
16 dex
12 con
14 intel

1)dragonmark
3) dodge
6)dragonmasrk
9)spring attack
12)ic slash
15) dragonmark
18) otwf

f1) weapon focus
f2) weapon spec
f4) mobility
f6) gwf
f8) gwspec
f10) greater two weapon fighting
f12) power attack

Kinda tight but thats the cost of dragonmarks

rogue
fighter
ranger
fighter
ranger
fighter
ranger
fighter
ranger
fighter
ranger
fighter
ranger
fighter
rogue
fighter

toughness is something you sorta need but I dont see where it could fit. Saves will be a problem w/ some mitigation by elf enchantment resistance.

3rd dragonmark feat is a waste. Greater weapon focus is not needed either to qualify for kensai 2. OTWF is debatable in usefulness. Swap out 2 of those three and take toughness and extend. Extend will give you 12 minutes Ram's strength which is nice, and double duration displacements which really improves their effectiveness. If you swap out all three, you may even consider CE.

Also, if you are looking for stealth as opposed to open locks / umd / trapskills, 2 monk is an option instead of 2 rogue. This will give better saves (particularly will) and 2 extra feats while still allowing you to get good hide / move silently / spot / balance ranks.

[Waukeen]

Greater weapon focus is not needed either to qualify for kensai 2. OTWF is debatable in usefulness.

You DO need gr wpn focus for kensai II because you need gr wpn specialization and the focus is the pre-req for it. I agree about OTWF as not needed in time because it is only a +2 and you will be high on attack bonus, maybe take it at first with a lvl feat not a ftr feat so it can be easily swapped for toughness when your build comes into its prime in later levels

[Ephemeral]

You DO need gr wpn focus for kensai II because you need gr wpn specialization and the focus is the pre-req for it. I agree about OTWF as not needed in time because it is only a +2 and you will be high on attack bonus, maybe take it at first with a lvl feat not a ftr feat so it can be easily swapped for toughness when your build comes into its prime in later levels

Check the compendium. You don't.

http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Feat:...ashing_Weapons

You need GWF if you go 16 levels of fighter and want to take the second weapon spec damage enhancement. Which doesn't apply in this case.

[Waukeen]

I stand corrected, your DO not need gr wpn focus. I am also happy because it makes the feat swithing around on Lazarath work easily.. In my defence I was going of the 3.5 player's handbook, for which most of the common feats are translated exactly.