Still no 32 point build in the shop?

[captfurious]

Good attempt at sarcasm.
Join a good Guild. Ask them for +2 Tomes.
No need to grind unless you can't join a guild or you like grinding.

Are you implying that my sarcasm failed (you used the word attempt)? If so, read on...

Just as a I don't have time to farm for 1750, or farm for tomes, I have no time to join a guild to ask for them, or for that matter, to ask them for helping favoring a toon up to 1750.

I want my 40pt build now.... and I am willing to pay for it. Can't turbine see that?

[eonfreon]

Are you implying that my sarcasm failed (you used the word attempt)? If so, read on...

Just as a I don't have time to farm for 1750, or farm for tomes, I have no time to join a guild to ask for them, or for that matter, to ask them for helping favoring a toon up to 1750.

I want my 40pt build now.... and I am willing to pay for it. Can't turbine see that?

Much better. Keep it coming .
Let me try the other side:
I already have a 40+ point toon- 32 point + 2 Str tome, +1 Con Tome, +3 Wis Tome, + 2 Dex Tome, + 2 Cha Tome. If these things are available at the store I would have no reason to have gotten all those tomes in the first place in the manner I did.

Unfair!!!! Don't invalidate my Tome finding/buying/earning!!!

Wow, that was cathartic.

[Banner]

Although you make good points and I agree that Turbine made a bad decision with the 32-point character mechanic....

I just want to point out that a 28 point character is NOT a throw-away... It can be your "real" character... It was for all of us... Most of us vets still have our original 28 point characters... Mine is a dwarf cleric.

My wisdom is as high as any 32 point character. My spells hit just as hard, I heal just as well... I could not make him any better at casting or healing.

I have 20 less hit points than I could have... that's it.. Instead of 470 hps, I only have 450 hps... Or maybe I could have +1 to hit and damage. I carry a big axe and do plenty of damage. No problems hitting, so maybe instead of averaging 50 points of damage a hit, I could do 51...

If that 2% less damage would actually bother you as you played, then yes you shouldn't play this game (or any MMO). Each Mod changes the game play mechanics. A "perfect" character in Mod 4 will not be "perfect" in Mod 7.

All that said, I vote for Turbine to make 32 point characters available in the store, but know that a 28 point character is 99% as good as a 32 point character...

Thanks for the feedback, Trudh.

I agree with you that game mods are often made that impact character value or change the basis upon which player character development decisions were made (e.g., "I picked the Bugblatter class because they can teleport. After I spent a gazillion hours developing my kick-butt Bugblatter, Flaccid, the McDoofus corporation built a teleportor into every tree. Flaccid has been virtually castrated.").

I dislike such changes unless really justified. Nevertheless, they are inevitable.

[captfurious]

Much better. Keep it coming .
Let me try the other side:
I already have a 40+ point toon- 32 point + 2 Str tome, +1 Con Tome, +3 Wis Tome, + 2 Dex Tome, + 2 Cha Tome. If these things are available at the store I would have no reason to have gotten all those tomes in the first place in the manner I did.

Unfair!!!! Don't invalidate my Tome finding/buying/earning!!!

Wow, that was cathartic.

Apparently my first and second attempts at sarcasm did not work... I apologize.

http://xkcd.com/386/

[Ephemeral]

I play on cannith, and i am one of the few that has 32pt builds unlocked.

Please make 32pt builds available for all on this server. I don't have an epeen problem, and I pity those that do.

I didn't earn this privilege, i merely played long enough that i got it. Anyone that claims they are 'special' because they have 32 pt builds is an idiot. I would like all the people that play on my server to have access to these builds, because I want my server to be populated by people that identiy with, and are bound to, their characters.

Thank you.

[Strakeln]

The stupid thing here is the existence of the 32pt reward for 1750 favor. Making them buyable in store is fixing that mistake.

/signed

+rep for you

This argument has gone on in dozens of threads. Put simply, I know a handful of people who quit due to the foolishness of how 32-point builds have been implemented. I don't know anyone who will quit if they put 32 points up for sale, though I'd have to imagine I wouldn't shed many tears over that type of person leaving the game.

Put the builds on sale. Make money. Make players happy. Stop listening to the vets who want everyone else to have to do everything they did. It won't affect the vets, nothing in their gameplay experience will change. Is is affecting the new players.

[lucien123]

/signed

+rep for you

This argument has gone on in dozens of threads. Put simply, I know a handful of people who quit due to the foolishness of how 32-point builds have been implemented. I don't know anyone who will quit if they put 32 points up for sale, though I'd have to imagine I wouldn't shed many tears over that type of person leaving the game.

Put the builds on sale. Make money. Make players happy. Stop listening to the vets who want everyone else to have to do everything they did. It won't affect the vets, nothing in their gameplay experience will change. Is is affecting the new players.

+1 rep

[lucien123]

I play on cannith, and i am one of the few that has 32pt builds unlocked.

Please make 32pt builds available for all on this server. I don't have an epeen problem, and I pity those that do.

I didn't earn this privilege, i merely played long enough that i got it. Anyone that claims they are 'special' because they have 32 pt builds is an idiot. I would like all the people that play on my server to have access to these builds, because I want my server to be populated by people that identiy with, and are bound to, their characters.

Thank you.

+1 rep

[eonfreon]

Apparently my first and second attempts at sarcasm did not work... I apologize.

http://xkcd.com/386/

No problem. I see the humor in your link. It's funny. Well done.
I'm sure when you're done with making me laugh you'll get to a point of some kind.

So do you want to pay me to get you a 40 point if Turbine won't do it? Is that your point?
Darn, I'm sure that was another attempt at sarcasm wasn't it?
Darn, sorry.

Funny link though. Nice work typing that link out.
Hopefully you'll find the time to get 1750 first before you worry about 40 points.
It'll really help ya to get to 1750 first, honest.
Do you need a recommendation to a guild?
You'll have to run with us a few times to prove your worth. It'll all have to jive or sorry, I can't get you a 40 point. Sorry. You'll just have to accept that you're not 40 point material until you're ready to show that you've got the right stuff .

[Mercules]

People who have a 1750 character can basically unlock 32 point builds on all servers(except Cannith). They have to pay to transfer said character to each server, log in and unlock the 32 point build then pay to transfer to the next server.

Since you can grind the favor once and then pay Turbine to unlock it on each server, Turbine might as well take the next step and just let people pay to unlock 32 point builds just like they can Drow(favor unlock) and Favored Souls(favor unlock). It is even the middle unlock being 1750 which is between the 400 and 2500.

The 4 extra points really don't have a huge effect on game play, but the perception of them being better appears to be causing trouble with the OCD crowd.

[Milolyen]

Not going to get caught up in this stupid arguement.

28 pt builds are NOT "gimped" just because you CAN have 4 more points.

When grouped with someone you CAN NOT tell if that person has a 28pt char or a 32 pt char just by running through a dungeon.

A group of 28 pt chars and just as easily complete everything in the game that 32 pt builds can.

Those 4 build points are nice but NOT a make or break and the ONLY time it really makes difference is when creating a pally or monk because of the number of stats the classes use.

Now many of you say "okay if that is so then why are you against Turbine selling 32pt builds" and the answer is SIMPLE ... IT IS A PERK that many people have EARNED and should REMAIN that way. It is not about wanting to keep noobs down, it is not about "Waaa I had to grind out the favor so everyone should have too" It is about having some rewards in the game. If and when you DO reach that point to earn 1750 favor and you look at your char most will not see rerolling that char into a 32 point build as being worth it because it ISN'T that big of a difference.

My 28 pt ranger starting stats are 14 str, 16 dex, 12 con, 10 int, 14 wis, 10 cha ... this char was created back in June of 2006 (back when I really didn't know much about the game DDO). If I were to create him today I would change it to 16 str, 16 dex, 14 con, 8 int, 14 wis, 8 cha. 1 extra dmg and 1 extra hp at each lvl and + 1 fort is NOT a big enough reason for me to reroll that char. With the exception of paladins and monks and to a lesser extent Bards and Rogues, there is not enough of a difference between a 28pt build and a 32 pt build to warrant calling 28 pt builds "GIMPS" and NOTHING in this game requires a person to be a 32 point build.

Milolyen

[TheJusticar]

Turbine has already said they have no intention of making 32pt builds purchasable.

Not entirely true. They've never come out and said anything definite. In fact, I remember reading something to the effect that they're mulling it over.

The rest of your post is complete non-sequitur. What do you care how much people play or how much they hate grinding -- again -- for something as 32-point builds? If they're willing to pay, why not? There's absolutely no reason not to.

Godspeed.

[Ephemeral]

Those 4 build points are nice but NOT a make or break and the ONLY time it really makes difference is when creating a pally or monk because of the number of stats the classes use.

So under some circumstances 28pt builds are gimped? I.e. when you are making a paladin or monk?

Now many of you say "okay if that is so then why are you against Turbine selling 32pt builds" and the answer is SIMPLE ... IT IS A PERK that many people have EARNED and should REMAIN that way. It is not about wanting to keep noobs down, it is not about "Waaa I had to grind out the favor so everyone should have too" It is about having some rewards in the game. If and when you DO reach that point to earn 1750 favor and you look at your char most will not see rerolling that char into a 32 point build as being worth it because it ISN'T that big of a difference.

If its purely about having a reward, then surely a +2 tome of your choice is quite a nice reward for getting to 1750? There is nothing special about hitting 1750 favor, so I don't see why the best account-wide 'reward' is linked to such a trivial feat? In truth, for many powergamers (and also gamers who care about their toons being the best they can) getting 32pt builds is a necessary step for them to feel that they are getting optimal results. Just because you may not see this fact (its a fact because 32 > 28) doesn't make it not true.

I have not played a single 28pt character build that I could not improve with 4 additional build points. Whether the improvements would be worth re-levelling the toon are debatable in some cases

My 28 pt ranger starting stats are 14 str, 16 dex, 12 con, 10 int, 14 wis, 10 cha ... this char was created back in June of 2006 (back when I really didn't know much about the game DDO). If I were to create him today I would change it to 16 str, 16 dex, 14 con, 8 int, 14 wis, 8 cha. 1 extra dmg and 1 extra hp at each lvl and + 1 fort is NOT a big enough reason for me to reroll that char. With the exception of paladins and monks and to a lesser extent Bards and Rogues, there is not enough of a difference between a 28pt build and a 32 pt build to warrant calling 28 pt builds "GIMPS" and NOTHING in this game requires a person to be a 32 point build.

Milolyen

Your original build is suboptimal even for a 28pt elf. Your 32pt build is better (I wouldn't call it optimal as the wis is too high). I don't understand how you don't consider a +1 to hit / damage, and an extra 20hp to be very nice benefits? You may have raid loot to compensate for your 28pt build's deficiencies, and obviously you have invested a lot of time into that character, which colors your view on rerolling him.

As to the final point, no one is calling 28pt builds gimp in an absolute sense. They are however less effective than if you were able to spend an additional 4pts at creation.

[Quanefel]

Are you implying that my sarcasm failed (you used the word attempt)? If so, read on...

Just as a I don't have time to farm for 1750, or farm for tomes, I have no time to join a guild to ask for them, or for that matter, to ask them for helping favoring a toon up to 1750.

I want my 40pt build now.... and I am willing to pay for it. Can't turbine see that?

40 points? I see your 40 point build and raise you 100! I mean, if we got the money to buy something it should automatically be in the game store. No questions, just sell it. Well, all those who can not afford it are SOL but at least the needs of those who can afford it will get it. Nothing says uber like buying your way to the top.

[Avonwey]

My 28 pt ranger starting stats are 14 str, 16 dex, 12 con, 10 int, 14 wis, 10 cha

Thanks for proving that 28 point characters are gimped.

[KoboldKiller]

Thanks for proving that 28 point characters are gimped.

Thanks for proving your mentality and attitude are gimped..

[Ephemeral]

40 points? I see your 40 point build and raise you 100! I mean, if we got the money to buy something it should automatically be in the game store. No questions, just sell it. Well, all those who can not afford it are SOL but at least the needs of those who can afford it will get it. Nothing says uber like buying your way to the top.

And again the slippery slope canard rears its ugly head.

Asking for 32pt builds to be sold, which are an account level benefit rather than a character level benefit, is not the same as asking for everything to be sold. Its intellectually dishonest to suggest otherwise.

Also, and only because you indirectly raise the point in your post, if you are a time-poor gamer, then you are SOL on MMO's I guess? The fact that you hold down a real life job, have a family you support and little free time is a bad thing in your eyes? You may not like it, but such people are a much better customer for Turbine than the elitist 'powergamers' with lots of time on their hands but little or no money.

If you have an incentive structure in your games that penalizes such players, over and above the fact that they have limited play time in any case, then basically you fail at business.

[Ephemeral]

Thanks for proving that 28 point characters are gimped.

In fairness, its proof that there exists at least one 28pt character that is gimped

[Milolyen]

So under some circumstances 28pt builds are gimped? I.e. when you are making a paladin or monk?

I would still not call them gimps. Just agreeing that yes those +4 build points will make a bigger difference in some cases than others.

If its purely about having a reward, then surely a +2 tome of your choice is quite a nice reward for getting to 1750? There is nothing special about hitting 1750 favor, so I don't see why the best account-wide 'reward' is linked to such a trivial feat? In truth, for many powergamers (and also gamers who care about their toons being the best they can) getting 32pt builds is a necessary step for them to feel that they are getting optimal results. Just because you may not see this fact (its a fact because 32 > 28) doesn't make it not true.

I have not played a single 28pt character build that I could not improve with 4 additional build points. Whether the improvements would be worth re-levelling the toon are debatable in some cases

Seriously? a +2 tome is nothing for a lot of players hence why a lot of people only grind for the 1750 favor once and then forget about it on all other chars. The only reason I got it on multiple chars is because it is easier to get now with all the extra quests.

Your original build is suboptimal even for a 28pt elf. Your 32pt build is better (I wouldn't call it optimal as the wis is too high). I don't understand how you don't consider a +1 to hit / damage, and an extra 20hp to be very nice benefits? You may have raid loot to compensate for your 28pt build's deficiencies, and obviously you have invested a lot of time into that character, which colors your view on rerolling him.

As to the final point, no one is calling 28pt builds gimp in an absolute sense. They are however less effective than if you were able to spend an additional 4pts at creation.

Suboptimal and gimped are two VERY different things ... would I turn down an extra 2 str and 2 con ... no but is it worth farming all the tomes and raid gear that he currently has and enjoys ... not when 32 point builds first came and sure as hell not now. Oh and that +1 str only adds a +1dmg as he is dex based. (my current build and the 32 point build I would use if I where to reroll are optimal for my play style)

and to Avonwey ... what ever man ... just because you can't understand how something plays does not mean it is gimped. I would go into more detail ... but I really could not care less of your opinion.

Milolyen

[Milolyen]

In fairness, its proof that there exists at least one 28pt character that is gimped

and in all fairness ... your opinion means as much to me as Avonwey ... exactly nothing.

Milolyen