Still no 32 point build in the shop?

[Delt]

I have no problem with you having your way, like it currently is, but I wish you hinged on something more then "we need to keep our old accomplishments intact or they will be for naught" or "if they change this thing then it will lead to other changed and then everything is doomed".

That isn't my arguement and putting quotes around your simplified bastardization either makes you dumb or rude. Pick one.

Should I return the favor and boil down your arguement to "frankly, they should have everything available in the store so people can buy their specced out toons and we can all stare at My DDO pages instead of playing"?

No, because my ability to defend my stances and consider other viewpoints doesn't rely on cowardly and low brow tactics.

[krud]

God talk about so lazy people, " I must have a 32pt. build because I can't spend time to run favor." or " I want the e-z button because Turbine made it so to buy drow and FVS." Ok, can we just paid Turbine to get XP, because " I'm to lazy to run a play a toon and I want to run high quest once in awhile." God stop cry about "it to much work" and start playing the game. My high toon only have 1545 favor and I've been play for 3 years now I think. I'm not crying about not having 32pt. build so, shut up and play the game will you.

I've done it 5 times, and even deleted a 32pt character who have reached 1750 favor.

[Aesop]

Pssst, hey noob vet. I am not saying they will, I am saying they might as well as it amounts to the same **** thing. The fact that I have to clarify that a second time speaks loads to your ability to comprehend.

Speaking of not comprehending, if you want to unlock 1750 on a different server, transfer an existing toon to that new server. Problem solved, assuming you've done it once, "founder".

So instead of whining that they might do something like add raid loot you are saying that they might as well if they add something like 32 point biuilds.

And that second part is bloody hilarious...

Let me see... ok so Transfer a character to another server... which by the way costs money... so I see very little difference between one and the other short of saying that new players should be held down because that's where they belong...

also since you seem ignorant of this. Cannith doesn't accept transfers at this time.

Maybe someday it will... but right now it doesn't

Its a game. People come here to play and have fun. Most don't want to play for a couple of months just to play on even footing with the rest. If anything 32 point as a reward was a bad idea.

Aesop

[Aesop]

That isn't my arguement and putting quotes around your simplified bastardization either makes you dumb or rude. Pick one.

Should I return the favor and boil down your arguement to "frankly, they should have everything available in the store so people can buy their specced out toons and we can all stare at My DDO pages instead of playing"?

No, because my ability to defend my stances and consider other viewpoints doesn't rely on cowardly and low brow tactics.

Bull

[eonfreon]

That isn't my arguement and putting quotes around your simplified bastardization either makes you dumb or rude. Pick one.

Should I return the favor and boil down your arguement to "frankly, they should have everything available in the store so people can buy their specced out toons and we can all stare at My DDO pages instead of playing"?

No, because my ability to defend my stances and consider other viewpoints doesn't rely on cowardly and low brow tactics.

When then I'm sorry. But that's what your arguments sound like to me. I am trying to get your point.
I never played other MMO, I prefered faster on-line stuff like FPS.
I thought Everquest and Eve and WOW and stuff looked cool but was boring. Just the way it was to me.

So maybe you're talking about lessons learned from other MMO's. And as far as rudeness or dumb- well of course if you want to split hairs that's the way your posts have seemed to me. "Lazy vets" ring a bell?

Not the point. How can the argument that allowing this into the store will pave the way for other things to be purchased what most feel shouldn't be purchased be anything other then a slippery slope.

If that's not your argument and that rather a reward of this magnitude shouldn't be discarded because it's somehow necessary for the longevity of the game (once it was, but you're really stretching a point if you still want to argue that 1750 still serves it's purpose of giving something for people to do until more content and completed Character classes are introduced) then I really wish you wouldn't have muddied it up by including the slippery slope argument.

And basically your boiling down my argument is what I've been hearing from you. And that's my point. I don't believe that changing 1750 is touching the Holy Grail. The idea that I want that is in quotes is laughable. But that is what you basically keep saying when you equate my desire for a re-working of 1750/32 point build as a desire to make sure I or others can just buy their way to the top.

[rezo]

Pfft I have 1750 on two servers. Slacker.
And I started 6 months after you.

I don't favor grind, I raid grind.... lol

32pts. builds aren't important to me....

[eonfreon]

I don't favor grind, I raid grind.... lol

32pts. builds aren't important to me....

Good for you. I happened to get to 1750 before I cared about Raiding . I still Raid on my old 28 point or Drow.
Didn't care about it but I did set my goals on it when I realized I had a really cool build in mind, that I could not have done on 28 point. Couldn't have done it. Period.
I still have 28 points. Why are they 28 points? Because I can't earn the right to make them non-28 yet.
Hopefully respecs will change that.

[Delt]

How can the argument that allowing this into the store will pave the way for other things to be purchased what most feel shouldn't be purchased be anything other then a slippery slope.

I'm not sure how many times I'd need to repeat this before you get it, but 3 times will have to be my limit. I said it amounts to the same thing, not that I expect one will lead to the other (aside from a 'might as well at that point' slant). Still don't grasp that I didn't say what you think I said? Well I can't help ya.

Let me see... ok so Transfer a character to another server... which by the way costs money... so I see very little difference between one and the other short of saying that new players should be held down because that's where they belong...

Aesop

I am well aware Cannith can't be done. You didn't specify that. That said, I find it beyond hilarious that you would be considering 28pt builds on a BRAND NEW server gimped. And god forbid the players that earn the favor there be rewarded for their efforts.

You know, maybe you all are right. I realize DDO lacks much in the way of achievements or goals. We don't have real pvp, we don't have real crafting, we don't have housing, etc. All we really have here is character building. DDO is a game after all, stuff should be fun. Perhaps we really should remove all the grind that hides behind creating and tweaking characters. 'Time investment = ingame advantage' is quite the antiquated concept after all. Very 90's.

A digital chatroom and my.ddo blogs -- that's the future. Hopefully I can tweet my newest hair color soon.

*hands everyone a cupcake and saunters off*

There, that's hyperbole and twisting arguements done right

[eonfreon]

I am well aware Cannith can't be done. You didn't specify that. That said, I find it beyond hilarious that you would be considering 28pt builds on a BRAND NEW server gimped. And god forbid the players that earn the favor there be rewarded for their efforts.

You know, maybe you all are right. I realize DDO lacks much in the way of achievements or goals. We don't have real pvp, we don't have real crafting, we don't have housing, etc. All we really have here is character building. DDO is a game after all, stuff should be fun. Perhaps we really should remove all the grind that hides behind creating and tweaking characters. 'Time investment = ingame advantage' is quite the antiquated concept after all. Very 90's.

A digital chatroom and my.ddo blogs -- that's the future.

*hands everyone a cupcake and saunters off*

Okay so I get it. The 32 point is a pivotal thing in your mind and if it ever gets changed it will be catastrophic and will pave the way for removing all the ability to create and tweak characters.
Well you're part right. Keeping it as is will indeed make it impossible to tweak current characters, but it will allow us the ability to create better characters.

I'm just glad FvS doesn't follow the logic of 32 point and Drow. I would be very annoyed that I had to worry about getting 2500 Favor just to play a new Class.

Since I already got my 32 points on the servers I want to play on. And since I finally got the TP's "owed" to me (at least that's what my e-mail says- I'm gonna log-in and log out the game when i get home from work and that should allocate all my points - 3000 more TP - YAY I win!!!) I really don't have any vested interest in whether Turbine ever changes this policy.

I still think it's stupid to make people play 28 pointers to 1750 Favor. But with respecs on the possible horizon my last objections, to the way 1750 Favor is not applied to the character earning the favor, will hopefully be taken care of.

[Delt]

Okay so I get it. The 32 point is a pivotal thing in your mind and if it ever gets changed it will be catastrophic and will pave the way for removing all the ability to create and tweak characters.

Nope. 3 strikes and you are out I guess. But hey, at least you didn't use quotes this time, so you are getting closer.

Here is your cheat sheet - feel free to study it later and see where you went wrong. Your post should have read like:

Okay so I get it. The 32 point is the equivilent to raid loot in your mind, as both require in game time and effort to achieve/earn. Turbine selling 32 pt builds would cheapen the overall game, as it invalidates what you view as one of the few goals available in a mainly PVE game like DDO. I disagree, but understand.

I understand you won't get it right away, but with hours of study, anything is possible. Keep reaching for the rainbow and all that jazz. Later.

[eonfreon]

I'm not sure how many times I'd need to repeat this before you get it, but 3 times will have to be my limit. I said it amounts to the same thing, not that I expect one will lead to the other (aside from a 'might as well at that point' slant). Still don't grasp that I didn't say what you think I said? Well I can't help ya.

Very well I guess I got caught up on your "might as well at that point" slant.
However since you always bring up extremes:

You know, maybe you all are right. I realize DDO lacks much in the way of achievements or goals. We don't have real pvp, we don't have real crafting, we don't have housing, etc. All we really have here is character building. DDO is a game after all, stuff should be fun. Perhaps we really should remove all the grind that hides behind creating and tweaking characters. 'Time investment = ingame advantage' is quite the antiquated concept after all. Very 90's.

You keep bringing in the concept that allowing 32 points will invalidate one of the few achievements and goals in the overall game. And this will annoy Vets and it "might as well" give away Green steel, Raid Items, and everything else, because it will be just as bad.

Is that fair to say?

[eonfreon]

Nope. 3 strikes and you are out I guess. But hey, at least you didn't use quotes this time, so you are getting closer.

Here is your cheat sheet - feel free to study it later and see where you went wrong. Your post should have read like:



I understand you won't get it right away, but with hours of study, anything is possible. Keep reaching for the rainbow and all that jazz. Later.

Sure Delt. Whatever you say. Yep, and I'm rude .

[Delt]

Sure Delt. Whatever you say. Yep, and I'm rude .

I can only stomach repeating myself so many times

PS - if you like FPS, I assumed you played BF2. God forbid you earn rank for unlocks there eh -- think EA will accept a $20 bribe to bypass it if I whine enough?

[Aesop]

I am well aware Cannith can't be done. You didn't specify that. That said, I find it beyond hilarious that you would be considering 28pt builds on a BRAND NEW server gimped. And god forbid the players that earn the favor there be rewarded for their efforts.

Where did I say that 28 point builds were gimped?

I may have said that people don't enjoy not being on even footing and that many have found it to be a turn off that they have to build a character inorder to build a second character

I may have said that I don't want to have to grind out another 1750 favor because grinds bore the hell out of me...

I may have even said that certain builds nearly require 32 points to be truly viable.

however to clarify its notthat 28 point builds are gimped... its that no one likes having to build what many consider to be a "throw away character" in order to get what many consider to be a main character.

Aesop

[Delt]

Where did I say that 28 point builds were gimped?

So not "gimped", but "throw away" worthy? Is there a difference?

Fine, you didn't say gimped then. Not sure I understand where the line is between those two terms, but it not particularly important.

[eonfreon]

I can only stomach repeating myself so many times

PS - if you like FPS, I assumed you played BF2. God forbid you earn rank for unlocks there eh -- think EA will accept a $20 bribe to bypass it if I whine enough?

Completely different game.
But hey, whine away. Just like whining to make sure they don't is your right as well, as you've demonstrated elegantly in this thread .

But please continue to believe that I'm whining to make things easier on myself. It allows me many chuckles.
As I've said in my other posts I really hoped your argument had more substance then the fact that allowing an alternative TP way to earn 32 points wouldn't pave the way to allowing everything in the store.
I'm glad your argument is far more sophisticated and is rather that 32 points are like Raid Loot. Makes little sense to me. But like you said I can understand your POV and disagree.
My point is that 1750/32 was a reward that served it's purpose. It's time to change that antiquated Reward.

[captfurious]

C'mon, there are lot of players interested in paying to get 40 point build from the store instead of reaching 1750 favor and farming for 4 +2 tomes (just like drow and favored soul) and still there isn't this option ?
Turbine, are you sure you want our money? Seems you don't like them (I am an American player, already a VIP on DDO:Eberron Unlimited but I have no time to farm 1750 and 4 +2 tomes and then do again the character, I'm ready to pay to buy 40 pnt build).

[eonfreon]

So not "gimped", but "throw away" worthy? Is there a difference?

Fine, you didn't say gimped then. Not sure I understand where the line is between those two terms, but it not particularly important.

Yes there is a difference. A "throw away character' simply means that he cannot benefit from the 32 point upgrade so if you roll another character just like him ,but with those extra points there is no point in keeping the old guy if/when the new guy gets the same gear and level.
"Throw away" character is as much a misnomer as a "gimp".
It does not mean he is "gimp" depending on how you define gimp.

Gimp is too subjective. How about "an identical character with more points", does that help?

[eonfreon]

C'mon, there are lot of players interested in paying to get 40 point build from the store instead of reaching 1750 favor and farming for 4 +2 tomes (just like drow and favored soul) and still there isn't this option ?
Turbine, are you sure you want our money? Seems you don't like them (I am an American player, already a VIP on DDO:Eberron Unlimited but I have no time to farm 1750 and 4 +2 tomes and then do again the character, I'm ready to pay to buy 40 pnt build).

Good attempt at sarcasm.
Join a good Guild. Ask them for +2 Tomes.
No need to grind unless you can't join a guild or you like grinding.

[Aesop]

C'mon, there are lot of players interested in paying to get 40 point build from the store instead of reaching 1750 favor and farming for 4 +2 tomes (just like drow and favored soul) and still there isn't this option ?
Turbine, are you sure you want our money? Seems you don't like them (I am an American player, already a VIP on DDO:Eberron Unlimited but I have no time to farm 1750 and 4 +2 tomes and then do again the character, I'm ready to pay to buy 40 pnt build).

Drow can be the equivilent of about 36 point builds... is that close enough?