The Path to Enlightenment

[Azuarc]

This thread serves as reaffirmation for me that I'm not out-of-line when I see groups that use cleric synonymous with healer, or that consider "battle cleric" a dirty word. I was once a cleric...in EverQuest. EQ clerics *WERE* the healers, no questions about it. That's simply how it was. With a few slight deviations, I would say the first four steps of the DDO cleric is identical to that of the EQ cleric, except that the vast majority of cleric players never graduated beyond that because of the necessity of being able to cast Complete Healing. Clerics had one ridiculously powerful healing spell, and the game became balanced around it, so yes, it was actually necessary. That didn't mean I couldn't have a little fun, though.

EQ cleric skill was defined by mana efficiency in terms of how they healed, and how they regenerated their mana. Eventually the game added a few skills that convinced me to get up off my meditating butt and join the combat. I won't elaborate on that game's mechanics, but it gave me a taste of what it could mean to play a healer that didn't just heal. And then when WoW came out, I switched to that and played a priest part-time. WoW priests were genuinely capable of healing the group while dealing some damage, depending on how demanding the group was. My priest wasn't my main, so I'll leave it at that, since anyone with healing spells was expected to use them in WoW, but players who learned to hybridize their healers were IMHO golden.


I've only been playing DDO for about a week or two. I'm trying to pick up where my EQ cleric left off -- in the fray, and healing when necessary. I have an unfair advantage in the learning curve, but I think I've paid my dues via the time I spent in EQ. I'm having difficulty adjusting to the differences in the game -- especially since I'm still low-level and probably have a poor initial set-up for my character -- but I feel better knowing that there are people out there who are playing the way I want to eventually be playing once I have the game knowledge.

[Anthem]

"Am I joyriding?"

That's the one question I have to keep asking myself.

I'm so happy to see so many clerics getting in on making the most out of all the cleric's abilities. I know we have Sam to thank for this thread in particular being such an inspiration, but I've also seen more and more threads, posts and opinions that support full clericing. I love it!

Combat and direct damage and crowd control are addicting, and I've found almost to the point of distraction, and I have to keep reminding myself why we combat, CC and OCC: That preventing damage is a huge help to our SP pool and quest completion.

So few people are used to seeing clerics operate at their full potential, that I often find myself almost overdoing it on offense just to demonstrate what's possible, and because it's so effective and fun, I sometimes need to ask myself if I'm joyriding. I would feel badly if I went too far one day and was left with limited healing SP for the final fight, and I could only imagine the jabs about, "if it weren't for all those cometfalls, maybe we'd have had heals!"

It's a powerful class. Powerful enough to be intoxicating, and I'm writing this as a reminder to myself as much as anybody, to maintain the discipline to not just show off!

[clkpacker]

So few people are used to seeing clerics operate at their full potential, that I often find myself almost overdoing it on offense just to demonstrate what's possible, and because it's so effective and fun, I sometimes need to ask myself if I'm joyriding. I would feel badly if I went too far one day and was left with limited healing SP for the final fight, and I could only imagine the jabs about, "if it weren't for all those cometfalls, maybe we'd have had heals!"

I don't recall which quest it was on--something with a lot of earth elementals, I think, a level 6-8 quest maybe--and my PUG group was really struggling. The melees weren't able to take the enemies down fast enough to avoid major damage, and I was blowing through a lot of mana keeping them alive in fights. It was a bunch of barbarians and fighters, and despite their high hit points I was struggling to keep them at 1/3 health during the fights.

During the beginning of quests, especially ones I don't know (which is most of them, as I'm new) I tend to hang back and only do heals until I know the group and who and how much I need to help. So I hadn't been doing anything but heal for the quest we were struggling on up to that point. During the next fight, I started casting Command and Soundburst--and the melees were so confused. "Did someone Trip them?" they kept asking, and I said, "No, I knocked them down w/ a spell." The melees were ecstatic. During every fight from there-on-in, all I heard over the mic was "Knock 'em down!" The quest went a lot smoother from there, and the melees were really impressed with me. One of my best quest experiences.

I don't know where I was going with this, but your comment made me think of that experience

[Anthem]

Hah yes! I'm sure I'm not the only cleric who's heard a voice chat along the lines of,

"Nice trip."
"Nice trip again, Fighterman"
"I didn't do it"
"Who keeps..."
"I think it's the cleric."
"Yeh but it's Command, and thanks!"

[clkpacker]

It's always fun when you surprise the melees. In my experience, half the time they don't even know I have spells aside from buffs and heals. It's fun to show them what you can do.

[Vallar]

Indeed, there is nothing more rewarding to hear people cheering for the trip you have just done over a crowd that could have caused the entire group's wipe.

More over, later on, with Holy Smite, if it lands fully, it AoE blinds them as well as damages them, you don't want to know how happy Rogues are when that happen. Mobs at that point drop like flies. Same goes with Order's Wrath.

A particular group I played with once (they were really great and considerate to the point that I needed to heal the rogues like once or twice as they always used potions) learned that they won't attack giants until I go first. Once they saw the cubes of light created by Order's Wrath, they go in (as it has the stun effect too, which _I think_ lasts longer than Sound Burst, but not sure of that). Especially in Stormcleave and the very end of Redwillow's Ruins, they were calling me "Boss".

To tell you the truth, I only play my Cleric nowadays powered by this incident, thinking, hoping, praying, that more would follow and it never ceases to end.


NOTE - Thank you OP for a great post, you really did hit the spot, I admit I was stuck in the first 3 phases till level 5, read your post and changed. Thanks!

[The_Great_Samulas]

I'm glad to hear you are all enjoying the broadened powers of your clerics. Don't keep it a secret, spread the word (I would caution you to do it in a supportive manner, because healbots can be resistant to change). It is refreshing to hear your stories and thanks for the praise.

A nice little tidbit for you is obscurring mist. This little first level spell is dirt cheap, because it doesn't need to be heightened, extended, or anything. It gives a 20% concealment effect to your party when they are in it (which stacks with blur/displacement). It is a good thing to use in stationary fights, especially on elite, that last a decent amount of time (boss fights). True seeing doesn't work against it, but it will be destroyed by fire spells. It will reduce incoming damage, so you have more time/mana for nukeage.

Edit: cloud effect should be re-evaluated for stacking. Clouds are funky things. First they all stacked. Then they didn't and acid fog got broken. Don't know what is going on with U5 yet, but they changed incorporeal to stacking. In any event it works against true seeing (provided they are susceptible to first level spells).

[JollySwagMan]

Bump - I thought this was sticky'ed

I did not know that Obscuring Mist stacks with Blur/Displacement! This definitely makes it worth more consideration.

I use it sometimes when soloing, but had pretty much relegated it to Grease status as a 'party buff' .

[The_Great_Samulas]

We had a session in the Academia di Curatio awhile back where I went over "Dealing with Problematic PUGs". One aspect I wanted to pass on to those here is the development of the triage list. This is basically a working order on who to heal first. It can help you tremendously in dealing with pick up groups, because it insulates your spell points from bad players. This will allow you to do more fun things with your mana.

By watching the play of your group in the first few fights you can usually notice things that let you develop this list. Your triage list should start with squishies (rouges and arcanes) at the top of the list and warforged at the bottom (you still heal them, just not as a priority), then be evaluated as you progress. You should look for the signs of good players and bad players:

Damage mitigation: Are arcanes using crowd control? Are tanks using trip/stunning blow/flanking motions? Are rouges flanking opponents?

Group tactics: Do players mass their offense together or fight by themselves? Are players aware of their agro and control it so they don't get more than they can handle? Are they using advanced agro mechanics, e.g. gaining agro then mitigating its effects (intimitanks, terrain)?

Damage level awareness: Do players top themselves off between fights? Do they back off out of a fight when at 20% and start healing or just keep fighting and die?

If you watch out for these signs you can put people that were at the top of the list on the bottom, the reverse, and identify one or two tanks that are your priority candidates if things get bad. It is a great way to adjust your healing strategy for a new group. Identifying the good players in your group can save you from a party wipe.

[PowerOfRaistlin]

- Yes, I Am The Zerging Cleric, Come With Me If You Want To Live.

/signed

[killercat]

What about those of us who truly love being a healbot? Yes a lot of CC and what not can and does prevent damage but if you run in an effective group, that is more of a waste then just healing them with your aura. I run in a dedicated group where my aura does 80% of my healing. Yes I go off and use damaging spells but I am purely a healing spec cleric.

Why should my choice of being a pure healer make me a "worse" cleric? I could do all that the top tier does, but since I don't pug, and its more efficient for me to be the way I am, and I enjoy that. Why should I be considered less?

[The_Great_Samulas]

What about those of us who truly love being a healbot? Yes a lot of CC and what not can and does prevent damage but if you run in an effective group, that is more of a waste then just healing them with your aura. I run in a dedicated group where my aura does 80% of my healing. Yes I go off and use damaging spells but I am purely a healing spec cleric.

Why should my choice of being a pure healer make me a "worse" cleric? I could do all that the top tier does, but since I don't pug, and its more efficient for me to be the way I am, and I enjoy that. Why should I be considered less?

First off, if you enjoy it, do it. If you are a content stage 4 cleric, continue to be so. Most people do stay content there for awhile, then they become jaded and tired of being a pure support character.

Secondly, the reason I consider healbots "worse" clerics is a stage 5+ cleric does everything they do and more. Using your example of an effective group, where you consider CC a waste, what about CC that stuns and produces crits (isn't that better?). Or how about cometfall that does damage as well? Or how about actually killing them yourself with vorpals, DPS, and/or instant death spells. A more advanced cleric does every single thing a healbot does, and more. Your arguement for efficiency is flawed in that you are arguing it is more efficient to sit and wait and let a mob do damage to the group then heal it, rather than just take it out yourself (vorpalling and other power 5 weapons don't cost any mana, and instant death spells on enemy casters save you mana). Your aura actually frees up mana for use on these other activities. Any mana you arrive at a shrine with, is wasted mana (over what you use to buff). If you aren't using it, you are being inefficient. Example: Part 1 shroud - is it more efficient to use all of your mana cometfalling the portals and killing trash or use the shrine at the end of part 1 with 90-100% of your mana. A healbot does one, a stage 5+ cleric does the opposite. Most healbots don't even bother to swing at the portals.

All that said, this is a game. You should do what is fun to YOU. I am simply offering advice to those that want to be more than a healbot for a variety of reasons. A common path is for players to actually enjoy healboting, then become jaded with it, and then to quit playing their healers aside from raids to help friends. I'm saying there is a different path, a much more enjoyable/rewarding experience, and alot more out there to playing a cleric.

[killercat]

First off, if you enjoy it, do it. If you are a content stage 4 cleric, continue to be so. Most people do stay content there for awhile, then they become jaded and tired of being a pure support character.

Secondly, the reason I consider you and healbots "worse" clerics is a stage 5+ cleric does everything you do and more. Using your example of an effective group, where you consider CC a waste, what about CC that stuns and produces crits (isn't that better?). Or how about cometfall that does damage as well? Or how about actually killing them yourself with vorpals, DPS, and/or instant death spells. A more advanced cleric does every single thing a healbot does, and more. Your arguement for efficiency is flawed in that you are arguing it is more efficient to sit and wait and let a mob do damage to the group then heal it, rather than just take it out yourself (vorpalling and other power 5 weapons don't cost any mana, and instant death spells on enemy casters save you mana). Your aura actually frees up mana for use on these other activities. Any mana you arrive at a shrine with, is wasted mana (over what you use to buff). If you aren't using it, you are being inefficient. Example: Part 1 shroud - is it more efficient to use all of your mana cometfalling the portals and killing trash or use the shrine at the end of part 1 with 90-100% of your mana. A healbot does one, a stage 5+ cleric does the opposite. Most healbots don't even bother to swing at the portals.

All that said, this is a game. You should do what is fun to YOU. I am simply offering advice to those that want to be more than a healbot for a variety of reasons. A common path is for players to actually enjoy healboting, then become jaded with it, and then to quit playing their healers aside from raids to help friends. I'm saying there is a different path, a much more enjoyable/rewarding experience, and alot more out there to playing a cleric.

The problem with the group I run with is that everything I generally would normally be attacking with these spells or weapons are dead before I even have the chance to cast. (group does kill extremely fast) Yes on occasion I will kill loose mobs, but we have 2 people in the group who basically can run down a hall way and kill everything they can solo most of the quests on elite. If I was in a pug where this wasn't the case, I would be casting CC and BB more often, but I am not in that situation. Why waste mana on something that isn't going to change anything?

[The_Great_Samulas]

The problem with the group I run with is that everything I generally would normally be attacking with these spells or weapons are dead before I even have the chance to cast. (group does kill extremely fast) Yes on occasion I will kill loose mobs, but we have 2 people in the group who basically can run down a hall way and kill everything they can solo most of the quests on elite. If I was in a pug where this wasn't the case, I would be casting CC and BB more often, but I am not in that situation. Why waste mana on something that isn't going to change anything?

I see your situation. Sounds like a low/mid level group with you largely piking (which can be relaxing). If they are that good, you should be splitting up to accomplish objectives quicker. Veteran groups split up into 1 or 2 man teams in a dungeon. For example, take the hallway instance you refer to. Why sit there and watch? Run right by them (you can throw a CC spell if you think they need a little help), take on the next encounter by yourself, or with the rest of the group. Heal them up when they catch up. This is what an advanced cleric would do.

This will all go out the window, and you'll see what I'm talking about as you get to more challenging content -they won't be mowing stuff down in epics.

[killercat]

I see your situation. Sounds like a low/mid level group with you largely piking (which can be relaxing). If they are that good, you should be splitting up to accomplish objectives quicker. Veteran groups split up into 1 or 2 man teams in a dungeon. For example, take the hallway instance you refer to. Why sit there and watch? Run right by them (you can throw a CC spell if you think they need a little help), take on the next encounter by yourself, or with the rest of the group. Heal them up when they catch up. This is what an advanced cleric would do.

This will all go out the window, and you'll see what I'm talking about as you get to more challenging content -they won't be mowing stuff down in epics.

Expect that in epics. and we do split up. If the situation does arise, I will be CC/Damaging if it is the best option to preserve mana.

[Anthem]

What about those of us who truly love being a healbot?

[...]

Why should my choice of being a pure healer make me a "worse" cleric? I could do all that the top tier does, but since I don't pug, and its more efficient for me to be the way I am, and I enjoy that. Why should I be considered less?

That's only more efficient if you define "efficient" as merely hoarding your own spell points. If any of the other definitions of efficient are applied, like getting your party through the quest more quickly, safely and surely, or allowing your party to complete more challenging quests, or sharing the offensive SP burden with your arcanes, then your "efficiency" more closely resembles piking, laziness, and selfishness.

I would say the same of any class or player who is able, but who is intentionally unwilling to use all of their abilities to help their party through the quest.

The only valid argument I see here is that you enjoy playing the one trick pony while being reluctant to help your friends out in any other way. Nobody should tell you how to have fun, and your game is your own time and coin, not ours to tell you how to play, but you can fairly be considered "less" on the factual grounds that you are capable of three or four significant roles, but only fill one of them while refusing to fill those other roles when (frequently) appropriate.

[soupertc]

Expect that in epics. and we do split up. If the situation does arise, I will be CC/Damaging if it is the best option to preserve mana.

I've done the healbot thing....I still do on my rerolled cleric when I'm feeling lazy(Like last night in a Epic Wiz King me and Sam ran). It's pretty rare I've ever had mana issues with my cleric...even in Epic content and we PUG out spots all the time. Even when I do the Healbot thing...I still throw spells or even swing my weapon at times cause it just gets really boring in genral to me to watch Red Bars swing back and forth. Anytime I have run as strictly a "Healer" I've had plenty of mana that was just wasted....I mean the Blue Bar is there to use...so I try to get the most out of it.

Either way sounds like your having fun...and that's all that really matters.

[skolvikings]

Thanks for the insightful post. Gave you +1 rep.

I'm relatively new to DDO (although not to MMOs) and my main is a level 14 multiclass with 11 cleric/2 monk/1 rogue. Basically it's following the Valiance build, except I took Empower Healing instead of Empower Spell so I could get the radiant servant enhancements and its healing aura.

The reason I chose this build is because of work and family commitments (I have 2 little girls aged 4yrs and 8months). I needed something solo friendly since playtime can be sporadic. However as I gain higher levels, I find myself grouping more and more. I realized that most groups will be 100% happy with a healbot that chugs pots... or whatever they have to do... to keep them buffed and healed by standing in back and casting heals and buffs only. However that's not how I want to play.

I don't have great gear just yet, but I believe I'm most similar to Cleric #5 from your list. I don't care what anyone else says, it's my job to help the group accomplish the quest/raid objectives. Usually that means keeping party members on their feet instead of in my backpack (though not always).

I had a great revelation of this last night while running a quest with some guildies and some pugs we got to fill out the group. It was the first time I was running this quest, and at one point, our leader gathered us at a doorway and instructed us to wait. He then pulled 4 baddies (can't remember what type now, but they hit hard) back to the group. Well they did hit hard enough that the group needed healing, so I used the best mass heal I have available to me at the moment, which was mass cure moderate wounds. Each time I cast it with empower healing enabled, it costs me 70 SP. I had to cast it three times before we were done killing just those four baddies.

So when the leader ran ahead to pull more, I decided to go to the other side of the doorway from the group, and watched for when the leader was returning with the mob. When I saw him returning, I cast blade barrier, which costs me 70 SP with maximize/extend. On the way back to our group, he had to pull the mobs through both sides of the blade barrier, which reduced the mobs total HP by about 40-50%. The fighters were then able to easily finish the mob off without needing a single heal. My radiant servant I healing aura was sufficient.

Lesson learned: when I stood back and only healed, I burned up 210 SP (out of my total 825 SP). However when I utilized a well placed blade barrier, I only had to burn 70 SP and didn't have to cast a single heal. Meaning I served the group in the most efficient manner possible.

Now I can't wait until I get to level 20 and start collecting good end-game gear. I'd love to be able to take aggro and kite mobs through my blade barriers... regardless of what the fighters are doing. They just want to stand there and swing their swords anyway, so what will they care? For now, since I don't have the gear or abilities to do that effectively, I'll just continue looking for ways to maximize my support role based on the capabilities I do have atm. If that means throwing up a BB, or casting Greater Command, or buffing my party with deathward instead of casting restoration a bunch of times, then that's what I'll be looking to do.

[killercat]

Thanks for the insightful post. Gave you +1 rep.

I'm relatively new to DDO (although not to MMOs) and my main is a level 14 multiclass with 11 cleric/2 monk/1 rogue. Basically it's following the Valiance build, except I took Empower Healing instead of Empower Spell so I could get the radiant servant enhancements and its healing aura.

The reason I chose this build is because of work and family commitments (I have 2 little girls aged 4yrs and 8months). I needed something solo friendly since playtime can be sporadic. However as I gain higher levels, I find myself grouping more and more. I realized that most groups will be 100% happy with a healbot that chugs pots... or whatever they have to do... to keep them buffed and healed by standing in back and casting heals and buffs only. However that's not how I want to play.

I don't have great gear just yet, but I believe I'm most similar to Cleric #5 from your list. I don't care what anyone else says, it's my job to help the group accomplish the quest/raid objectives. Usually that means keeping party members on their feet instead of in my backpack (though not always).

I had a great revelation of this last night while running a quest with some guildies and some pugs we got to fill out the group. It was the first time I was running this quest, and at one point, our leader gathered us at a doorway and instructed us to wait. He then pulled 4 baddies (can't remember what type now, but they hit hard) back to the group. Well they did hit hard enough that the group needed healing, so I used the best mass heal I have available to me at the moment, which was mass cure moderate wounds. Each time I cast it with empower healing enabled, it costs me 70 SP. I had to cast it three times before we were done killing just those four baddies.

So when the leader ran ahead to pull more, I decided to go to the other side of the doorway from the group, and watched for when the leader was returning with the mob. When I saw him returning, I cast blade barrier, which costs me 70 SP with maximize/extend. On the way back to our group, he had to pull the mobs through both sides of the blade barrier, which reduced the mobs total HP by about 40-50%. The fighters were then able to easily finish the mob off without needing a single heal. My radiant servant I healing aura was sufficient.

Lesson learned: when I stood back and only healed, I burned up 210 SP (out of my total 825 SP). However when I utilized a well placed blade barrier, I only had to burn 70 SP and didn't have to cast a single heal. Meaning I served the group in the most efficient manner possible.

Now I can't wait until I get to level 20 and start collecting good end-game gear. I'd love to be able to take aggro and kite mobs through my blade barriers... regardless of what the fighters are doing. They just want to stand there and swing their swords anyway, so what will they care? For now, since I don't have the gear or abilities to do that effectively, I'll just continue looking for ways to maximize my support role based on the capabilities I do have atm. If that means throwing up a BB, or casting Greater Command, or buffing my party with deathward instead of casting restoration a bunch of times, then that's what I'll be looking to do.

I am a healbot, BUT, say if the group is being swarmed, I will greater command or sound burst depending on situation if it will work, and implode. Thing is, if you are one set, a Great player doesn't limit themselves to doing what they want, or think, but doing what is needed in the situation. I am not a zerger, I am a sit in the back and evaluate the situation, then act upon it. I have yet to run out of mana when it was needed, nor have I used to little mana to be a piker. I will call myself a heal bot, but I will also CC when the time comes, and damage if it is called for. My build is a fully focused on healing though. But that doesn't define all actions I will take.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Really great read OP.

I'm not sure where i am in your path. DDO is my first MMO so i have never had the "healbot" roll drilled into me. I have played a lot of pnp so i straight away look to using sound burst, hold person and any other CC spell that is handy. Also, ive leveled characters of every class up on every server with the intention of creating wealth, not breaking even. Because of this when i play a cleric (i have 2 but the one at the moment is arcane archer) i rarely have an SP pot in my inventory and i don't use scrolls. I keep some wands to repair warforged, remove curses etc. but those are fine resources for me to spend.

I stick to the strategy of choosing my pugs wisely and not taking on content that is beyond the capability of the party (or me solo these days). I'm still learning to fighter/cast/heal but im getting there. Mostly is the problem that combat buffs (divine favour/power) are pretty SP intensive to keep going so im falling into a routine of being a "part-time cleric". My office hours are 30-50% of the quest duration, im on call the other 45-65% of the time but i may take a while to get to you, don't disturb me while im manyshotting (remaining 5%). The heal time gives me time to aura everyone to full HP without wasting my SP before i get back to doing what i do best.

Offensive casting/crowd control happens all the time of course.