The Path to Enlightenment

[Anthem]

How can you be good at all three aspects (melee/heal/casting) if you are a pure cleric? [...]

Specced for heal and CC, my main's DPS is pretty weak. Even with 36 build points and tomes, her strength now, at level 9 is just 20 with gear, which makes her melee DPS respectable, but far from uber.

In her past lives, the main equalizer has been vorp and save-or-die weapons (banish, smite, disrupt...). We clrs have enough to-hit, and with those weps we just have to touch the mobs often enough for them to proc.

Your Hold Person spell plus a weapon that does something brutal on the auto-crits (stat damage, bursts, etc.) brings "person" class mobs down in a real hurry too.

Your CC spells also allow you to 'melee' slowly but safely even through crowds if you're soloing. I know that's not the same as the DPS melee power you're asking about, but the results are there.

Short of some real specialty builds we won't come close to the true melee classes for direct DPS, but cleric combat is realistic and rewarding, if maybe a little expensive in gear.

[The_Great_Samulas]

How can you be good at all three aspects (melee/heal/casting) if you are a pure cleric? I've been playing clerics since I've started DDO about 6 months ago. I've rolled clerics up to L13 before rerolling to try out different things. I did the 9/1ftr "battle cleric" route, and I currently have a L8 pure caster.

My battle cleric can lay the beat down at the front lines, throws occasional soundburst cc's right in the thick of battle and drop back to heal when things go bad. But he is limited in SP, his cc's aren't great, his heals aren't at full efficiency (non-shield devotion items aren't common) and he's always broke because he's needs the cure wands to supplement his SP.

My pure (14str) cleric is basically CC specced with heighten+(+1 DC) Enchantment Weapon +1wis human adapatability. She can cripple crowds even in quests several levels above her. However, running around with a heavy mace, there's no way she can do much DPS until BB comes around.

So I'm confused, how can a 'pure' cleric melee effectively? Maybe at higher level it's a different story when you have vorpal/paralyzers? I don't know, I'm purely F2P and most of the uber eq mentioned are not easily obtainable by F2P, maybe that's the difference.

I can't really tell you about F2P. I never plan on going that way. All I can say is to subscribe. If you want to be a stage 7 cleric gear is a pretty important part of it, you shouldn't have things like quest and raid access holding you back. You can probably do reasonably well F2p, just don't expect to be on par with others. Of course, I'm not the one to give F2P advice.

I would echo the solid advice of Anthem. I would also add that a mace is not a particularly good weapon. You should get the following enhancement if you are human or dwarf (there are others for other races):

Follower of the Sovereign Host
Usage: Passive
Cost: 2 action points
Available to Cleric class level 1
You are a Vassal of the Sovereign Host, a true believer in the Doctrine of Universal Sovereignty. As is the world, so are the gods. As are the gods, so is the world. Grants a +1 bonus to hit with longswords, the favored weapon of the clergy of the Sovereign Host.

One thing not noted in the description is this enhancement also gives you proficiency in the weapon as well! I use longswords on my cleric, including a lightning 2 shroud weapon, power 5 weapons (vorpal, smiter, banisher - from abbott, paralyzer, and disruptor), greater banes, cursespewing, and debuffing weapons. At the lower levels I would encourage you to use greater banes if you can get access to them. At level 11, when I was running up my FvS I was soloing the wizard king (chamber of Raiyum) almost exclusively through melee (10 str, no heal spell or BB).

Don't forget that divine favor and divine power are your melee DPS spells. You can also get the divine might enhancements if you want, provided your charisma is high enough. Using a Bloodstone (+6 seeker) in your trinket spot also immensely adds to your vorpalling and DPS capacity.

A pure cleric at stage 7 is a marvel to behold. You may need some more experience and knowledge before you can get there. Hope this helps.

[rendet]

I can't really tell you about F2P. I never plan on going that way. All I can say is to subscribe. If you want to be a stage 7 cleric gear is a pretty important part of it, you shouldn't have things like quest and raid access holding you back. You can probably do reasonably well F2p, just don't expect to be on par with others. Of course, I'm not the one to give F2P advice.

I would echo the solid advice of Anthem. I would also add that a mace is not a particularly good weapon. You should get the following enhancement if you are human or dwarf (there are others for other races):

Follower of the Sovereign Host
Usage: Passive
Cost: 2 action points
Available to Cleric class level 1
You are a Vassal of the Sovereign Host, a true believer in the Doctrine of Universal Sovereignty. As is the world, so are the gods. As are the gods, so is the world. Grants a +1 bonus to hit with longswords, the favored weapon of the clergy of the Sovereign Host.

One thing not noted in the description is this enhancement also gives you proficiency in the weapon as well! I use longswords on my cleric, including a lightning 2 shroud weapon, power 5 weapons (vorpal, smiter, banisher - from abbott, paralyzer, and disruptor), greater banes, cursespewing, and debuffing weapons. At the lower levels I would encourage you to use greater banes if you can get access to them. At level 11, when I was running up my FvS I was soloing the wizard king (chamber of Raiyum) almost exclusively through melee (10 str, no heal spell or BB).

Don't forget that divine favor and divine power are your melee DPS spells. You can also get the divine might enhancements if you want, provided your charisma is high enough. Using a Bloodstone (+6 seeker) in your trinket spot also immensely adds to your vorpalling and DPS capacity.

A pure cleric at stage 7 is a marvel to behold. You may need some more experience and knowledge before you can get there. Hope this helps.

Hmmm I wasn't aware that the enhancement for the sovereign host gave you a proficiency in longswords... sigh, even vet clerics learn something new every day lol. I was using morningstars myself (sickles for vorpal) but the base damage on longswords is higher and you can crit on a 19-20 instead of just a 20 so I suppose I should start grinding out a couple GS longswords... Thanks for the info you bum ;p

Edit: btw, is anyone else's enhancement resetter bugging and not charging for a reset? This is the 2nd time that's happened to me. Not complaining of course.

[The_Great_Samulas]

Hmmm I wasn't aware that the enhancement for the sovereign host gave you a proficiency in longswords... sigh, even vet clerics learn something new every day lol. I was using morningstars myself (sickles for vorpal) but the base damage on longswords is higher and you can crit on a 19-20 instead of just a 20 so I suppose I should start grinding out a couple GS longswords... Thanks for the info you bum ;p

Edit: btw, is anyone else's enhancement resetter bugging and not charging for a reset? This is the 2nd time that's happened to me. Not complaining of course.

Haven't changed them in a few weeks, so don't know myself.

Main thing I wanted to say is that of course the bejewelled letter opener epic has a higher base damage, is keen, thundering and all sort of goodies. Now if I can just find it in my backpack...It was all sparkly...I know I put it here somewhere...Oh my precious...oh so precious...precious...heeheeeheheheee...he...he

PS. This never gets old. lol

[soupertc]

Hmmm I wasn't aware that the enhancement for the sovereign host gave you a proficiency in longswords... sigh, even vet clerics learn something new every day lol. I was using morningstars myself (sickles for vorpal) but the base damage on longswords is higher and you can crit on a 19-20 instead of just a 20 so I suppose I should start grinding out a couple GS longswords... Thanks for the info you bum ;p

Edit: btw, is anyone else's enhancement resetter bugging and not charging for a reset? This is the 2nd time that's happened to me. Not complaining of course.

yeah nice thing about longswords is sometimes ya can find nice KEEN ones(if ya don't want to make a Min 2 longsword) that of course up your crit chance. Hopefully they add more stuff like winter fest so we can craft on random loot to make those kinda weapons worth it in quest.

[soupertc]

PS. This never gets old. lol

You've been telling the same jokes since 2nd grade.....nothing ever gets old to you. Your humor is like a Twinkie.

[The_Great_Samulas]

You've been telling the same jokes since 2nd grade.....nothing ever gets old to you. Your humor is like a Twinkie.

Hey...I'm laughing so hard I nearly choked on my Twinkie

Nevermind...

[Impaqt]

I once found an old box of twinkies on top of the fridge.. They actually turned green... Was a bit scary....


But they still tasted fine....

[Arshaladon]

I was reading over your post about clerics with the 7 stages and i find myself wishing a had read it earlier because so many things in there i could have learned the easier way and so many things in there are things i still struggle with, like blaming myself for deaths lol. Took me a while to realize that casting soundburst on a massive group of kobolds could save me a load of healing since really they wont be alive to do any damage once the fighters swarm in. Proud to say ive never used quicken either :P. Ive only ever focused on healing and CC but you say melee combat is one of the three roles of a cleric, something i never really considered and for some reason ive always had the narrow minded view that it was one or the other. So i understand how i can implement this into my playstyle but im wondering how i should build my character to account for this. what type of weapons do you reccomend? I was thinking longsword because of the lord of soverign host deal. should i gain feats like sheild mastery? How do i balance strength into my 28 pt build.

My human cleric before
8 str
8dex
14con
8int
18wis
14cha

Are there any tips on feats and stat allocation you can give me? Thank you for your time

[The_Great_Samulas]

I was reading over your post about clerics with the 7 stages and i find myself wishing a had read it earlier because so many things in there i could have learned the easier way and so many things in there are things i still struggle with, like blaming myself for deaths lol. Took me a while to realize that casting soundburst on a massive group of kobolds could save me a load of healing since really they wont be alive to do any damage once the fighters swarm in. Proud to say ive never used quicken either :P. Ive only ever focused on healing and CC but you say melee combat is one of the three roles of a cleric, something i never really considered and for some reason ive always had the narrow minded view that it was one or the other. So i understand how i can implement this into my playstyle but im wondering how i should build my character to account for this. what type of weapons do you reccomend? I was thinking longsword because of the lord of soverign host deal. should i gain feats like sheild mastery? How do i balance strength into my 28 pt build.

My human cleric before
8 str
8dex
14con
8int
18wis
14cha

Are there any tips on feats and stat allocation you can give me? Thank you for your time

I'm glad the post has been helpful. To bad it is later rather than earlier, but it is still nice to hear stories of people it has helped. Sounds like you are actively pursuing advancement. Good to hear.

As far as advice on your build:
-I would swap charisma and strength and keep everything else the same. You only need turning attempts for your sovereign host clickie and for divine intervention every 5 minutes as needed (my cleric can have 6 of these with a starting charisma of 6 (dwarf). The other turning related stuff is largely a waste at endgame.
-I would stick with longswords almost exclusively. I use power 5 weapons, debuffers, and a lightning strike longsword. Use a bloodstone.
-As far as feats, the central ones you need for healing are Empower Healing, Maximize, and Quicken. I would recommend toughness as well. This leaves you 3 feats to tailor your build with. I like extend too, but this is debatable (I mostly like it now for blade barrier on epic). You will have to decide whether you like fighting more or casting. Use your remaining feats as you like, but if you like fighting take power attack and improved critical as central DPS feats (you can largely avoid improved critical with mineral 2 weapons). Shield mastery is a feat only for DR intimitanks. Good feats for casting are mental toughness, heighten, spell pen feats, and spell focus feats.
-Get a hound shield so you can block with significant damage reduction if things get bad. I have both the fighter one and cleric one. Even though you don't have tower shield proficiency for the fighter one it is nice to use when just healing and regaining mana because of the heal proc.

I applaud you on your lack of reliance upon quicken, but this is partially because you don't melee yet. Quicken is a useful, and necessary feat. You shouldn't be leary to use it as necessary. Just don't become reliant upon it.

Good luck, hope this helps.

[Shaftronics]

I know I'm just a scrub here, but I would like to ask to just express myself about clerics for a bit. I'm usually the physical fighter type. I have a Tempest fighter at around level 12 as well as a Drow TWF Paladin at level 9. But sometimes, that's just not enough support you can do or are able to do when you can heal. Sure, an FvS Should be able to do it very well, but I'm f2p, so... Limitations aside and my love for Heavy Armor, I went Battle cleric, despite all the odds and people going "BUT NO ONE WILL WANT YOU." I took it as a challenge.


I myself have done my own research and eventually, played my own Battle Cleric up to 10. It has been an enlightening experience, and correctly healing an entire party while dealing good DPS and yet not getting too much aggro to the point I'm the one dying first. Its an acquired skill and taste to play a battle cleric properly, still having enough SP to keep your party alive or knowing when to use Wands and when you should use your own SP instead. Its been very rewarding and satisfying to do so.

Of course, there are always the negatives, such as players who suddenly become reckless just because they have a healer, the ones who demand that you buff them -all- the frickin' time, even when the buffs have worn off for the 3rd time because they died. For the 3rd time while the same buff you have on yourself (lets say its bull strength) is still up and running. So what? You're the healer. Its your SP. You can choose NOT to buff or heal them regardless of what they say or do. It is important that players do not get on and over your head just because "i am party leadr and ur da healer". Its YOUR Cleric. You play it however you want to. But just remember; your cure spells are permanently attached to you for a reason. You will undeniably have some responsibility in keeping the party alive whenever possible. If you don't want to heal, just... don't play a cleric. If you only want to heal yourself, play in a party that already has a cleric, I suppose.

I guess that introduction's been a little too long. Oh well. D=

This is my character so far.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.34
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Haztion Maxwell
Level 10 Lawful Good Human Male
(1 Fighter \ 9 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 164
Spell Points: 514 
BAB: 7\7\12
Fortitude: 10
Reflex: 3
Will: 9

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 10)
Strength             16                    18
Dexterity            10                    10
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom               16                    17
Charisma              8                     8

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting


Level 2 (Cleric)


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 4 (Cleric)


Level 5 (Cleric)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 7 (Cleric)


Level 8 (Cleric)


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 10 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Empower Healing I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Empower Healing II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot III
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Cleansing I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Healing I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery II

I'm currently using a +2 Holy Greatsword of Pure Good (I know an axe is optimal, but the prefixes are great) and with a Greater Ardor V Clicky with 3 charges and when that runs out, an Improved Ardor VI Clicky, can heal perfectly as well as a cleric who wields a Greater Devotion V Item while I swing around my great sword as off-DPS, but without gathering too much, if any, aggro on myself. With that being said, I can totally see the worth of Quicken, and really would love to take it, but I'd rather wait for level 12, for now. Learning to know when to hold back and heal without being too dependent on quicken is important after all, right?

I went with the idea that if I wanted to DPS or hit stuff, why bother with... tiny swords that barely do anything? (this was before I found out about paralyzing weapons or cursespewing stuff) so I went the two-handed build instead and with Divine Power, rage and Greater Heroism, I have a +30 Bonus to hit with a +14 Bonus to damage (+25 To hit and +24 with Power Attack) with my Greatsword, and its works pretty darn good.

With the fighter level, I can always use a Tower Shield and a cursespewing mace if I needed to debuff and/or tank as well as heal (with the ardor clicky activated) with no penalties. Overall, I think I'm doing a great job, and I don't blame myself if someone dies. Whenever I join a PUG, I always make one rule clear; If I don't see you, I can't/won't heal you. Bottom line.

But of course, I play a cleric selflessly. I remind people whenever I join that I might be a battle cleric, but my PRIORITY is keeping everyone alive. And there's always the nice light-path monks that offer their help and with their sayings of "I can self-heal". I'm aware of my SP and DC shortages, willing to whip wands to make up for it as well during off-battle intermissions.

I recently got Cure Mass Light. Gotta say I love it with Empowered healing. So much SP economy.

So far so good, I think. Anything else I should work on?

If anything, I'm known as Haztion in Argonnessen. <3

[The_Great_Samulas]

Shaftronics,

It sounds like you are having fun with your cleric, while still performing the primary role of healing. This is the most important thing to keep in mind.

Some things to keep in mind. The quests under level 12 are fairly easy to a skilled player (which is sounds like you are). I meleed with my WF wizard with a two-handed sword and the master's touch spell until level 6, because it was just faster. You will find out shortly, that things become more challenging and the ability to multi-task becomes harder. Just stay focused on your current path and don't get frustrated as you learn to deal with it.

Another thing you may find is that your low wisdom score will prevent you from doing crowd control of any meaningful type. You can always reincarnate to fix that though. You also will lose access to the capstone because of the fighter level, but that can also be fixed with a reincarnate.

Keep it up!

[The_Great_Samulas]

I have posted information regarding the Academia di Curatio's first discussion panel meeting in the Sarlona forums.

Here is the link:

Academia di Curatio

You don't have to be playing on Sarlona to attend. You can just make up a toon and join the discussion group.

Feel free to offer advice in the thread.

[soupertc]

a person asked for SS of possible hotbar set up for cleric....here is one



please add others so people can get an idea of what might work for them.

[AzhureDragon]

I'm a lvl 6 fighter who has played solo until recently. Joined a few groups now and must say that it's been nice to get buffed before a quest, which honestly, didn't know anything about that as I have a ton of potions. I have enjoyed reading these inner workings of a cleric, (probably be my next character.) I have seen a few get harassed and had one ask me to stay with her for protection, during a run. I did as I felt it was a mutual situation. I have my healing potions so she doesn't have to use all her mana as she did for the others and continuously expressed the need to rest. The group ran off, leaving her. We went back to a Shrine so she could rest and by that time a few members had died. One left after saying he couldn't get healed, so why bother. The cleric was our leader and was upset. A request soon gathered more bodies to help.

Point is - almost everyone thinks a cleric is there to just heal them and believes they have the never ending power to do it. Not true. I keep potions as a rule. So, is there anything else, as a Fighter, that I can do to help my Clerics? I run ahead to keep the enemy off them. Someone earlier talked about scrolls being useful, but no cleric ever accepts the free scrolls I give away and therefore end up selling them. Just asking for advice on helping out.

[JollySwagMan]

Point is - almost everyone thinks a cleric is there to just heal them and believes they have the never ending power to do it. Not true. I keep potions as a rule. So, is there anything else, as a Fighter, that I can do to help my Clerics? I run ahead to keep the enemy off them. Someone earlier talked about scrolls being useful, but no cleric ever accepts the free scrolls I give away and therefore end up selling them. Just asking for advice on helping out.

First off, the fact that you have started off a self sufficient playstyle and have been reading this thread indicates that you will be an asset to your party

Actions that will help out a Cleric:

Intimidating trash-mobs so that the Cleric can focus on healing you, rather than the squishies. As a bonus, grouped enemies are easier to Crowd-Control. As a further bonus, 'intimitanking' tends to bring a little more discipline to a PUG, and you may find that the party will approach the quest as a group rather than a bunch of competitive interests. Mileage may vary.

Taking out enemies in this order: Clerics/Shamans, Mages, Dogs/things that trip, etc. Clerics and squishies can always dodge enemy melee characters, as long as they're not being Held/Tripped/Blinded etc. In fact, try using Trip (even the basic free feat) on enemy casters as a priority.

Don't go in to fight that Ogre - let the Cleric Command it first. Ogres, Trolls and Giants all have terrible will saves and it is *much* cheaper for us to spend 10 SP than heal up the automatic hits and grazing blows that these creatures will inflict on you.


As for what presents Clerics like, here are a few consumable items that really please your healer buddies. Unless you can afford it, would recommend waiting on giving them presents until they display some ability, because if you give stuff to a bad player it won't make much difference. Give em to someone that shows some promise, and it will have an impact outside of that particular quest/group

"Wavecrasher Cargo Manifest" collectibles - 2 of these turn in for a half-charged Cure Moderate Wounds wand.
Cure Mod/Serious/Critical wands
Mana pots. Especially if they prevent others from chugging them by giving out Divine Vitalities.
Scrolls of Prayer, Recitation, Heal, Raise Dead

After level 10, if you're playing a mana-sponge character (Barb, WF non-caster Melee), you might consider actually buying stacks of Heal/Rez scrolls to help out your healers. But only if you want to be on their invite list .

Also, learning how to effectively use a Cleric hireling is an invaluable skill that can be used in a considerable amount of content. A hireling with DVs might be more useful than that 4th melee.

[Shaftronics]

I like to keep mine clean~

[JollySwagMan]

This is a set up I use for my Cleric-Monks. This set-up doesn't take much effort, and allows me to focus on the left side of the screen when comparing enemy/ally HP. Also have the d20 over there because I may have to dodge through traps; it helps to determine the DC of stuff I am unfamiliar with.

To make the selected item icon into a rectangle, hit the 'eye' icon. Personally I find this easier to work with than the visual bubble icon.

I have the top of screen clear so I can see plenty of buffs/debuffs. Less commonly used stuff goes on left hotbar. Central hotbars are combat/spell oriented. Right side hotbars are mostly consumables, clickies, and situational combat gear. Later on 5 and 6 will swap places, with almost all buffs on right side, most combat gear in centre, with some combat spells/potions also in centre.

I have healing wands and remove curse/blindness/fear wands under 'excess consumables' there. They are not so much 'excess' but I usually have more than one of these items in my inventory. It's also where I put random potions that may be specific to a quest, or just stuff I'm trying to use.

[The_Great_Samulas]

I'm a lvl 6 fighter who has played solo until recently. Joined a few groups now and must say that it's been nice to get buffed before a quest, which honestly, didn't know anything about that as I have a ton of potions. I have enjoyed reading these inner workings of a cleric, (probably be my next character.) I have seen a few get harassed and had one ask me to stay with her for protection, during a run. I did as I felt it was a mutual situation. I have my healing potions so she doesn't have to use all her mana as she did for the others and continuously expressed the need to rest. The group ran off, leaving her. We went back to a Shrine so she could rest and by that time a few members had died. One left after saying he couldn't get healed, so why bother. The cleric was our leader and was upset. A request soon gathered more bodies to help.

Point is - almost everyone thinks a cleric is there to just heal them and believes they have the never ending power to do it. Not true. I keep potions as a rule. So, is there anything else, as a Fighter, that I can do to help my Clerics? I run ahead to keep the enemy off them. Someone earlier talked about scrolls being useful, but no cleric ever accepts the free scrolls I give away and therefore end up selling them. Just asking for advice on helping out.

JollySwagMan gave some useful advice. I would add three things:

1) Learn to play your tank well. Mitigate damage by flanking enemies, by using trip, and by using stunning blow. Attack enemies in the appropriate order of party threat (as mentioned already), BUT without leaving your squishies to fend for themselves.

2) Buff yourself as much as possible. Wear appropriate elemental resist gear for the quest. Drink stat potions, heroism, haste to augment your melee capabilities so you perform well. Get house P and/or J favor early so you can buy the buffs from those vendors. Through playing well and buffing yourself, you take alot of pressure off the cleric. It is relieving and less stressful knowing you have a tank that can handle mobs with little care needed.

3) Top yourself off between fights, or at least help out some. Clerics notice the effort and appreciate it. Buy and use ailment removing potions, especially remove curse, remove blindness, and restoration.

[AzhureDragon]

Thank you for the great advice!

JollySwagMan - I do hit the magic users first, since they inflict more damage than the regular melees. Then archers. I've noticed that other DDO melee players like to hit what comes at them first versus going for the heart of injury. So, I'll run ahead while they jump on the closer stuff. Though, if we're being attacked by, say, 10 kobolds, I still can't figure out why all the "fighter" types jump on only one at a time instead of fanning out. Anyways, I did take your advice about giving to more 'proficient' clerics. I gave a few scrolls to some lvl 3-4s, who were quite happy to get them without having to spend more money. Didn't know about the rez scrolls. Will check them out.

The_Great_Samulas - Somehow my Trip was bumped from my bar and I had replaced it with something else. Back again. I flank as often as I can, get better damage. Will be going to Houses P and J to buy stuff for buff. I did learn about "quirkiness" as I put it. Used a healing potion while the cleric was away healing others and I was with a Barbarian killing things. Was admonished for using a potion when it was their job to heal me and I needed to move closer to them. Ahhhhhh...........can't please them all..........:P