The Path to Enlightenment

[Oracle_Gil]

True Resurrection? Only at the end of the quest, and then only if they've cleaned out my backpack, sorted everything nicely, and dropped a few plat in my change purse

Nice to know other clerics with evil side XD
Here elven clerics have an edge, they dont even need sp for res. But the limited inventory space may pose a problem... hmm... a soul stone or a draconic rune ...

[CThruTheEgo]

First I have to say, "thank you" to Samulas and everyone else who have made this thread what it is. For some reason, even in PnP, I wasn't a fan of the cleric class. But this is a take on them that makes me want to play it.

I have played only melee classes and want to try something different. I’m not interested in either of the arcanes, so I decided to go with a cleric. This thread has by far been the most educational for me and I’d like to get some feedback from the experts. I may post the build in the class forums also, but I figured I would get different information here.

Being new to clerics and wanting to get away from melee, I intend my cleric to focus on the casting/healing roles. I think I will eventually see the versatility of, and want to utilize, all three roles. So I want to be able to melee when I choose to, but it's not a primary goal. I sort of intend this character to get me through the first several stages of clericing, but will probably TR once I understand the class better and go for an advanced build. Comments following the build.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.09.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

TheDivinator 
Level 20 True Neutral Human Male
(20 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 282
Spell Points: 1466 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 5
Will: 21

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             14                    16
Dexterity             8                     8
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom               18                    28
Charisma             12                    14

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               1                    10
Bluff                 1                     2
Concentration         6                    26
Diplomacy             1                     2
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle                1                     2
Heal                  4                    12
Hide                 -1                    -1
Intimidate            1                     2
Jump                  2                     3
Listen                4                     9
Move Silently        -1                    -1
Open Lock            n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                    -1
Search               -1                    -1
Spot                  4                     9
Swim                  2                     3
Tumble               n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device      n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness


Level 2 (Cleric)


Level 3 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 4 (Cleric)


Level 5 (Cleric)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 7 (Cleric)


Level 8 (Cleric)


Level 9 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell


Level 10 (Cleric)


Level 11 (Cleric)


Level 12 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 13 (Cleric)


Level 14 (Cleric)


Level 15 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration


Level 16 (Cleric)


Level 17 (Cleric)


Level 18 (Cleric)
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell


Level 19 (Cleric)


Level 20 (Cleric)
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Intervention
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant I
Enhancement: Cleric Radiant Servant II
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Wisdom I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Empower Healing I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Empower Healing II
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Empower Healing III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Heal I
Enhancement: Improved Heal II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Smiting II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting I
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting II
Enhancement: Cleric Smiting III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Spell Penetration II
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Might I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Turning I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery II

The value of intimidate has been discussed in this thread, but this seems more for advanced clerics, which I'm not... yet. So I opted to max concentration and balance.

I ended up with 4 build points I didn't really know what to do with. 14 con should be enough. 16 in str was an option for better melee capability; but then I realized I could bump cha up to 12, eat a +2 tome, be eligible for divine might 1, and end up with better damage as well as more turn attempts.

I am completely new to spellcasting in DDO, so please tell me if I'm missing anything featwise. I took empower healing, maximize, and quicken for healing. I figured empower, maximize, and heighten for offensive spells. I intend to swap out extend once I don't need it anymore. This basically leaves me with two more feats to take, which I'm assuming will be either spell pen/gr spell pen or spell focus/gr spell focus. I understand the difference between spell pen/focus, but I don't understand when I should invest in which one and why. And if I take spell focus, which school do I specialize in? I'm assuming evocation or necromancy. Any guidance in this area is greatly appreciated.

I do not have any melee feats planned. Am I going to regret that at all? Should I try to fit in either power attack or imp crit?

Thanks again for any advice and this amazing guide!

[The_Great_Samulas]

I am glad you have found the thread informative.

As far as you build, I would suggest:
1) Make strength 12 and charisma 14. This allows for DM2, which is +4 to damage, netting you an additional bonus to damage by sacificing one bonus to hit. It also gives you another turn. Your supposition that 14 con to start is enough is true. People that need more are tanking builds or just need to improve their play style. You will hit 500 hp.
2) get toughness and spell penetration as you other two feats. Give up empower (keep empower healing) as empower and maximize really isn't needed, and is annoying to swap both on and off. Use this feat to pick up a spell focus necromancy or a melee feat as your style dictates. Spell focus necromancy will assist with your slay living and destruction spells, which are two bread and butter instant death spells. It also is good for the harm spell. Evocation will raise your blade barrier and implosion DCs. The extra feat can be swapped around to try other ones out as your skill improves. I recommend spell focus necromancy to start for an offensive caster.
3) you may want to consider UMD. It is quite useful for an offensive caster, particularly for enervation scrolls to debuff before instant death spells. Being able to teleport is nice to. There are other nice uses, e.g. Fireshield scrolls. You can take points out of charisma or strength to do this.

Have fun, and don't worry to much about the builds. Skill is way more of a factor. Learn and you'll be able to walk into any dungeon with the confidence that it really doesn't matter who you are with, because you can solo it anyways.

[PNellesen]

I am glad you have found the thread informative.

As far as you build, I would suggest:
...
2) ... Use this feat to pick up a spell focus necromancy or a melee feat as your style dictates. Spell focus necromancy will assist with your slay living and destruction spells, which are two bread and butter instant death spells. It also is good for the harm spell.... I recommend spell focus necromancy to start for an offensive caster.

THANK YOU for that suggestion. I've been trying to decide what feat to swap with Extend on my 17 Cleric, and given his penchant for casting those exact spells, this would be perfect. My 19C/1F has an un-upgraded Death's Touch in his bank he could give him as well, which would come in very handy once unsupressed...

[Bleh101]

Im a caster type but want to stay as main healer while having the sp to do some dps, base stats for wis is 15 and cha is 14, should i put my lvl ups in to wis or cha?

[The_Great_Samulas]

Putting level ups into charisma is only advisable on some divine might builds. Even then it is split between charisma and strength. The usual choices are wisdom or strength.

I can see doing charisma on a healbot, but what you do on a healbot doesn't really matter, as they are serviceable for what they do in any form. That is kind of the point of this thread - that extra potential of the class is wasted on theses builds.

[Bleh101]

Not planing ona heal bot just when i made the toon was told cha added to turns and added crit chance to heals i do not need a lot of turns being what i have now seems to be enough me str is a bit lower though 12 so maybe a thinking a split of wis and str and with gear and enchantments can get crit rating.

[ihg.na]

Awesome...all I can say!

[The_Great_Samulas]

I am glad you enjoyed it. I hope it helps. Welcome to the forums (I saw it was your first post)!

[ihg.na]

I am glad you enjoyed it. I hope it helps. Welcome to the forums (I saw it was your first post)!

Oh I did enjoy it, and thank you

[Habreno]

Not planing ona heal bot just when i made the toon was told cha added to turns and added crit chance to heals i do not need a lot of turns being what i have now seems to be enough me str is a bit lower though 12 so maybe a thinking a split of wis and str and with gear and enchantments can get crit rating.

Totally not true.

CHA does not affect your crit chances with spells.

[Vanquishedfo]

Just have to say I wish you where an NPC in the tutorial zone for new players. I and a friend run some multi class cleric builds that are great fun and very effective but tend to stick to our own friends as to many spend to much time questioning us when we join groups rather then just wait watcha nd judge us on our success or failure.

Frankly id rather people learn to just use a bought nannybot rather then waist my time by asking me to join only to find frustration which is why I have TRd my pure cleric into a dumped con rogue just to mock the world.

[Such755]

I agree to everything here, and I used this to learn how to play a cleric myself, except for one thing:
How can you be both a GOOD caster and melee?
For good casting ability, you need to start with max wisdom and levelups in wisdom.
For good melee ability, you need to start with max strength (Or high, no less than 16)and all levelups in strength.
Not forgetting at least 14 con (personaly I never go under 16) and charisma, how do you excell both at melee AND casting? (Healing is a natural ability, even with not high wisdom, there's no change to the healing ability. Mass heal is mass heal if you start with high or low wisdom.)


Even with 36 build I can't see it happening, enlighten me please!

[Habreno]

To do decent melee, all you really need is to get over 100 on crits, or crit so darn often that it's actual damage. I'll end up with a 15-20 x2 on my GS Rapiers. With a Seeker +8 effect, that's serious damage. Never on par with a melee, but not a waste of my time either.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Give up empower (keep empower healing) as empower and maximize really isn't needed, and is annoying to swap both on and off.

With the existence of Divine Punishment I'd say that Empower is a must have just for this spell. Being able to turn individual metamagics on and off for specific spells is just gravy.

To be clear, empower will increase the amount of damage per SP spent AND will do more damage sooner which is always great. Working on blade barrier, radiant servant burst (I think) and cometfall are nice bonuses too.

[wax_on_wax_off]

I agree to everything here, and I used this to learn how to play a cleric myself, except for one thing:
How can you be both a GOOD caster and melee?
For good casting ability, you need to start with max wisdom and levelups in wisdom.
For good melee ability, you need to start with max strength (Or high, no less than 16)and all levelups in strength.
Not forgetting at least 14 con (personaly I never go under 16) and charisma, how do you excell both at melee AND casting? (Healing is a natural ability, even with not high wisdom, there's no change to the healing ability. Mass heal is mass heal if you start with high or low wisdom.)


Even with 36 build I can't see it happening, enlighten me please!

A simple way to have quite effective melee is to take power attack feat, improved critical (or get a minII or other keen weapon) and learn how to twitch a two handed weapon.

Even with a 14 base strength your contribution to melee in such a scenario is worthwhile when you consider all the bonuses to strength that are quite easy to acquire. In the end, level ups and a higher starting strength would only contribute +4 or so damage.

A favourite build of mine is a pure half-orc cleric or favoured soul. 16 starting strength and 18 starting wisdom (+level ups) is quite possible and all the bonus half-orc strength and extra damage gives quite useful melee damage. The real trick is working out what weapon to use. Quarterstaff is fine most of the time (when soloing) but for other times you can pass masters touch scrolls to a friendly arcane or just cop the -4 AB (as a weapon proficiency feat or splashing isn't worthwhile, imo).

[Jendrak]

A simple way to have quite effective melee is to take power attack feat, improved critical (or get a minII or other keen weapon) and learn how to twitch a two handed weapon.

Even with a 14 base strength your contribution to melee in such a scenario is worthwhile when you consider all the bonuses to strength that are quite easy to acquire. In the end, level ups and a higher starting strength would only contribute +4 or so damage.

A favourite build of mine is a pure half-orc cleric or favoured soul. 16 starting strength and 18 starting wisdom (+level ups) is quite possible and all the bonus half-orc strength and extra damage gives quite useful melee damage. The real trick is working out what weapon to use. Quarterstaff is fine most of the time (when soloing) but for other times you can pass masters touch scrolls to a friendly arcane or just cop the -4 AB (as a weapon proficiency feat or splashing isn't worthwhile, imo).

While we agree that THtwitch is something that you defiantly want to use you used an older thread that I believe is pre-nerf. They changed the way THF feats affected glancing blows so the method listed may be different that twitch fighting in its current form.

I would have done the research my self but it's hard enough just posting here from a phone without trying to dig through all the release notes to double check the dates.

[wax_on_wax_off]

While we agree that THtwitch is something that you defiantly want to use you used an older thread that I believe is pre-nerf. They changed the way THF feats affected glancing blows so the method listed may be different that twitch fighting in its current form.

I would have done the research my self but it's hard enough just posting here from a phone without trying to dig through all the release notes to double check the dates.

Depends what nerf you're talking about. Can you elaborate?

You don't get glancing blows while twitching but that is fine as the suggested build doesn't have any THF'ing feats. Twitching still provides ~18% bonus attack speed which makes up for the lack of glancing blows.

[The_Great_Samulas]

I agree to everything here, and I used this to learn how to play a cleric myself, except for one thing:
How can you be both a GOOD caster and melee?
For good casting ability, you need to start with max wisdom and levelups in wisdom.
For good melee ability, you need to start with max strength (Or high, no less than 16)and all levelups in strength.
Not forgetting at least 14 con (personaly I never go under 16) and charisma, how do you excell both at melee AND casting? (Healing is a natural ability, even with not high wisdom, there's no change to the healing ability. Mass heal is mass heal if you start with high or low wisdom.)


Even with 36 build I can't see it happening, enlighten me please!

You make a good deal of assumptions there. There is a reason why advanced clerics are left to the final levels of development, as you need to know the game fairly well to use them effectively. You can start by looking at the build on my pure cleric here. Investing in more than a 14 con on a healing class is usually not a good idea, as investing after 6 build points has diminishing returns. On divines that want to be specialists with tanking roles this can be the way to go. It is not the way to go on an advanced cleric. Remember that those four extra build points to raise your con to 16, only give you 20 hp.

On characters that require many stats, such as a "advanced" or "generalist" cleric you put your main stat at 18 (wisdom), then put the ones most important to around 14. You can dump stat charisma and still solo heal raids, although you don't have too if you want to take advantage of divine might (I have to different versions of my main in the linked page). The main benefit in many raid situations is your static healing aura, which can go on for an admirable time with very few turns (just equip a +6 charisma item), and the 75% amp for empower healing (making the high level mass cures more mana efficient than mass heal). For instance, in Vision of Distruction on normal you can perform 80-90% of the healing with just the static aura.

[PNellesen]

For instance, in Vision of Distruction on normal you can perform 80-90% of the healing with just the static aura.

This will drive some party leaders (and sometimes the other healer) CRAZY - I've lost count of the times I've been yelled at in party chat for "not healing", especially on my 19C/1F, because I have an almost-full blue bar when the 2nd set of red-named Orthons appears.