Eladrin & Haste

[Ereshkigal]

Currently you're seeing attacks per minute range from 70.38 to 82.76, with a more or less linear increase from BAB 3 through 20.

One of our potential charts shifts the range to 80 to 85, with a much shallower slope as you level. (With this chart, the primary benefits of increased BAB are essentially just the bonus to hit, since the attack speed increase is so minor.) This chart would basically set everyone that's under BAB 16 to a little bit below the equivalent of the old BAB 16 speed, and everyone at 16 or higher would be approximately the same as before the patch. Attack hooks will probably end up shifted around again some more.

Another one actually kicks the attacks per minute to 90 through 95, but would require attack speed improving effects like haste to be toned down so top end attacks per minute would end up the same as pre-patch, but it would essentially perma-partial-haste everyone. Haste itself would become less critical with this change, though.

That last one tend to feel the best, as the animations are nice and fast from level one to cap, but there isn't very much feeling of attack speed progression as you level, and haste becomes somewhat less of a must-have.

Don't screw with haste, if you think you have a outcry now, mess with haste in any way other than giving it a boost, and you will have an equal or worse situation than you have now. ( Just don't make haste required either, like you have with this past patch)

[Absolute-Omniscience]

Don't screw with haste, if you think you have a outcry now, mess with haste in any way other than giving it a boost, and you will have an equal or worse situation than you have now. ( Just don't make haste required either, like you have with this past patch)

No one will cry if it only gives as much max twf swings at it does now. Like he said it would in the quote.

[Borror0]

No one will cry if it only gives as much max twf swings at it does now. Like he said it would in the quote.

No, I think some people will still complain but, again, some people think the Earth is flat or that the free mason control everything so...

[kingfisher]

actually reducing haste and leaving EVERYTHING ELSE the same while increasing everyone's attack speed is the current best idea on the board in many peeps opinion. its fair to all, haste still works and boosts like it should (just less of a difference between hasted and non-hasted) and the overall attack speed with haste will be close to the same as before this fugly little patch.

[quintuss]

No, I think some people will still complain but, again, some people think the Earth is flat or that the free mason control everything so...

Yes Borror0 everybody that doesn't share your opinion (and your opinion must be right because it's yours) is a ******, got it.

[quickgrif]

Personally I would like to be less dependent on the haste addiction. Right now as it is at high levels you have to have it plain and simple. It is so bad devs probably calculate people having it into their content.

[quickgrif]

Yes Borror0 everybody that doesn't share your opinion (and your opinion must be right because it's yours) is a ******, got it.

I did it once I will do it again no matter if I agree or disagree with Borror0 I find he does

his research on what he talks about. People been name calling and putting words in his

mouth so figured a little rep +1 for Borr. A far as what he said simple stating it, some

people will not like change no matter what it is merely because it is change.

[Impaqt]

Don't screw with haste, if you think you have a outcry now, mess with haste in any way other than giving it a boost, and you will have an equal or worse situation than you have now. ( Just don't make haste required either, like you have with this past patch)

Please dont pretend to speak for everyone in this. You have quite the delusion going on here if you think your opinion is shared by everyone.

[SimVerg]

No, I think some people will still complain but, again, some people think the Earth is flat or that the free mason control everything so...

I think there will be a legitimate complaint if they nerf class abilities which grant haste-like effects(boosts, tempest 1, Acrobat) while making everyone else attack faster.

edit: Unless they grant a full respec in the same patch!

[Borror0]

[...] some people will not like change no matter what it is merely because it is change.

Exactly what I meant.

quintuss, if you don't see how I could have meant that, PM and I'll explain. Deeper explanations would have a great potential of derailing the thread.

I think there will be a legitimate complaint if they nerf class abilities which grant haste-like effects(boosts, tempest 1, Acrobat) while making everyone else attack faster.

/agree

I will opt for "might" rather than "will", however. It depends on how they pull it off.

[Impaqt]

Just gotta ad the concept of haste becoming "Less Critical" is extremely appealing to me. and I'm sure many melee based soloers would share that opinion.

[SimVerg]

/agree

I will opt for "might" rather than "will", however. It depends on how they pull it off.

How I suspect they'll do it is by adding more "overhead" to each animation. The other seemingly easy fix would be to change the fudge factor from .95 to 1(or higher, haven't done the math on what would be needed to equalize it to pre-patch levels).

[Borror0]

How I suspect they'll do it is by adding more "overhead" to each animation. The other seemingly easy fix would be to change the fudge factor from .95 to 1.

I'm not sure I'm following you... mind elaborating?

[Vivanto]

No, I think some people will still complain but, again, some people think the Earth is flat or that the free mason control everything so...

Because it is dammit!

On a serious note, should be pretty good to reduce the haste addiction while still retaining the same level of power - attack speed - however it wouldn't really solve the issue on it's own, it's just a derived sideffect of a fix to the fix.

[Velexia]

I like the third option, myself.

[SimVerg]

I'm not sure I'm following you... mind elaborating?

The standard formula for calculating attack rate with haste has two things that modify it(duration * haste modifier): fudge factor(currently .95) which provides around a 5% increase to the efficacy of any haste effect and overhead(the portion of the animation time that is not sped up by haste; previously it varied between styles so it may be an actual art issue). These are likely the two easiest ways of modifying the effects of haste effects(not sure on overhead). Changing either of them impacts all haste effects. The other way to do it would be to change the actual benefit provided by all haste effects(so, Haste goes from .75 to .8 for example) but this is prone to them forgetting things, which they seem to do every mod in re the immunities list.

[Borror0]

I think Eladrin was simply referring to Enhancement bonus to melee alacrity when he said "Haste-like" effect.

I would be surprised to see anything that is not an Enhancement bonus being modified. I would be overkill and unneeded complexity for an otherwise relatively simple fix. (That is not to say that reducing the size of some bonuses is a bad thing but it's too complex for an hotfix/small patch.)

[kingfisher]

I think there will be a legitimate complaint if they nerf class abilities which grant haste-like effects(boosts, tempest 1, Acrobat) while making everyone else attack faster.

eladrin said the wording he used referred to reconstruct's haste like effect (whatever the hell that means), not class granted benefits, but we will see. if they reduce any class granted attack speed boosts all hell will break loose. too many toons built specifically around those abilities, regardless of which class. still, it is turbine........

[Drekisen]

Wait a second!....the Earth isn't flat?!?! Since when?! Would u guys please start putting this info in the release notes!!!!! Geesh

[Ranmaru2]

eladrin said the wording he used referred to reconstruct's haste like effect (whatever the hell that means), not class granted benefits, but we will see. if they reduce any class granted attack speed boosts all hell will break loose. too many toons built specifically around those abilities, regardless of which class. still, it is turbine........

Reconstruct gives a 30 second haste equivalent to any warforged hit with the spell that doesn't stack with haste.

I just hope they do something about the attack speed...I can't even beat down enemy casters who can heal themselves with my battle cleric anymore using S&B as the attack speed is so **** slow, even with Divine Power and haste going. Well....not can't, it's just much harder than it used to be. Also, the Troll regeneration in the new quests is HELL to deal with after the Attack speed fudge up