People: attack speed animation is a cosmetic issue

[dormetheus]

I've seen a lot of people in an uproar about the attack speed animation. Some people want to nerf haste and haste like effects to boost attacks/minute. Some people want BAB attack speeds to change.

The real problem is, people want to change longstanding core game mechanics in order to "fix" what is basically a cosmetic issue. I see a lot of "I know the attacks are there, but the animations just look slow." Etc, etc.

As others have said before, there are more important things to work on than cosmetic issues.... Let's especially not change game mechanics over them!


IMO, if our attack speed was slowed down because they had to balance out the attacks/minute after taking out the horrendously slow 5th animation, then they should just put the animation back in. Since they took the 5th animation out, they just spread the slowness, like a disease, to our first 4 really good attacks.

Please, Turbine, DON'T change haste, clickies, class alacrity effects, or base attack speeds (do we really need an easy button?) JUST because our characters "feel" slow.

EDIT: What you SHOULD do, Turbine, is give us an equal progression of attack speed through all the new animations. i.e. the first, second, third, fourth, and fifth attacks should all be executed with a "normalized" speed. We should have all five attacks equal each other in speed, equal to the original, individual attack speed of our first attack animations, prepatch. (In other words, don't slow down our first four attacks, speed up the fourth and fifth one!)

There is NO reason our attacks should get slower as we get more of them.

[Borror0]

As others have said before, there are more important things to work on than cosmetic issues.... Let's especially not change game mechanics over them!

I think you're underestimating the importance of cosmetic on a player's gaming experience.

[Impaqt]

Annimation sync is definitly part of the issue. No doubt.....

Its not all of it though....

You cant blame the 5th attack annimation for slowing down the entire attack chain from levels 1-14 because it was never there in the first place. many builds didnt get that 5th annimation until they hit Level 20 even.

[spifflove]

I say put the 5th animation back in but make it a cleave. Not the same as having the feat just everyone who gets to the 5th animation gets a cleave just as if they had the feat with twf hitting twice.

[dormetheus]

I think you're underestimating the importance of cosmetic on a player's gaming experience.

Not really. I think cosmetic issues affect player immersion. However, I don't think we should do anything ridiculous like change spell effects and clickies over them!

You cant blame the 5th attack annimation for slowing down the entire attack chain from levels 1-14 because it was never there in the first place. many builds didnt get that 5th annimation until they hit Level 20 even.

Absolutely, I can. They, across the board, slowed down every attack in the chain to normalize gameplay at the top end. That is, even though you don't get the fifth attack, you get the slow down effect of the removal of the fifth attack.

They slowed down these attacks to keep with original balance of higher-end gameplay, thus screwing all characters under the "fifth attack level."

Edit: And, really, the attacks are still there for TWF, so I guess no one is really getting screwed.

[stricq]

Hmm, I don't think I care too much about the rearranging of the attacks. The thing that REALLY annoys me is the SSSSSSSLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOWWWWWWW AAAAATTTTAAACCCKKKK AAAANNNIIMMMMAAAATTTTIIOONNNN......

Oh yeah, this is in relation to the attack speed of the mob you are attacking. The animation speed of, say Kobolds, is still the same, but now our character looks like a glacier in comparison to Kobolds. It "looks" like our character is getting its butt kicked, even though the numbers say otherwise.

[IkedaTeramusa]

As with most people who are responding to you. My character feels lame. I can CLEARLY see that I hit an extra hit but I look like I'm retardedly swinging away. Why change the animations to begin with? It was something people enjoyed and now people feel they are fighting slower. Regardless whether they were clicky or not. Good for them having the time and finger power to clicky every time. I prefer to hold down my mouse button. Who cares...

[Borror0]

Not really. I think cosmetic issues affect player immersion. However, I don't think we should do anything ridiculous like change spell effects and clickies over them!

Immersion > Balance

Even if any of the changes needed to improve the cosmetic side of the latest change messes up with the balance of the game, it'll be worthwhile. Though, I doubt that anything you're referring to will have any drastic or even harmful consequences on game balance.

[dormetheus]

Immersion > Balance

Even if any of the changes needed to improve the cosmetic side of the latest change messes up with the balance of the game, it'll be worthwhile. Though, I doubt that anything you're referring to will have any drastic or even harmful consequences on game balance.

@Borro: I think we can agree on this--

The original complaint was that the fifth attack animation was broken because it was so slow. It was so slow that people were "exploiting" the game by twitching and bypassing the slower attack animations.

The removal of the fifth attack animation did NOT fix this. It just made the first four attacks look really slow.

Let's look at some made up numbers, shall we:

Original (fifth animation) auto attack: 70 attacks/minute
Original twitch attacks: 80 attacks/minute
New (slow animation) auto attack: 70 attacks/minute
New (slow animation) twitch attack: 75/attacks/minute

Really, we should be able to have both fast animations AND the attack speed of someone who is skipping the slower animations. I.e. the first through fifth attack should be equal in speed, mechanically and cosmetically!

ALL attacks in the chain should be equal, they should not get worse as the character progresses.

Edit:

Immersion > Balance

Even if any of the changes needed to improve the cosmetic side of the latest change messes up with the balance of the game, it'll be worthwhile. Though, I doubt that anything you're referring to will have any drastic or even harmful consequences on game balance.

Also, in D&D and DDO, PvM balance IS immersion.

[Impaqt]

@Borro: I think we can agree on this--

The original complaint was that the fifth attack animation was broken because it was so slow. It was so slow that people were "exploiting" the game by twitching and bypassing the slower attack animations.

The removal of the fifth attack animation did NOT fix this. It just made the first four attacks look really slow.

Let's look at some made up numbers, shall we:

Original (fifth animation) auto attack: 70 attacks/minute
Original twitch attacks: 80 attacks/minute
New (slow animation) auto attack: 70 attacks/minute
New (slow animation) twitch attack: 75/attacks/minute

Really, we should be able to have both fast animations AND the attack speed of someone who is skipping the slower animations. I.e. the first through fifth attack should be equal in speed, mechanically and cosmetically!

ALL attacks in the chain should be equal, they should not get worse as the character progresses.

Edit:

Also, in D&D and DDO, PvM balance IS immersion.

Can you point me to the thread where these things were documented? The new stuff....

Did they do a comparison across all the BAB levels as well like cForce did when he documented all the attack attacks per minute across the board?

[Borror0]

ALL attacks in the chain should be equal

It would require to make new animations for each race and fighting style.

[dormetheus]

It would require to make new animations for each race and fighting style.

I don't think so. Just restore the original speed of the first four attacks, and remove the fifth attack. That's pretty simple.

Can you point me to the thread where these things were documented? The new stuff....

Did they do a comparison across all the BAB levels as well like cForce did when he documented all the attack attacks per minute across the board?

No real number crunching has been done, otherwise I would use that resource. These are just the "theoretical" values, or the "intended" changes. Some people have started to put out numbers, but I think cforce is still crunching real ones.

I made these numbers up to demonstrate, again, the "intended" non-change, which was ultimately to nerf twitch players.

[Borror0]

I don't think so. Just restore the original speed of the first four attacks, and remove the fifth attack. That's pretty simple.

You said, "ALL attacks in the chain should be equal" and that would not happen simply by restoring speed.

The third and fourth animation are slower than the first and second one.

[stazer]

I think you're underestimating the importance of cosmetic on a player's gaming experience.

are you kidding!!! check out this video this is cosmetics enhancing gaming immersion at its best

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwfF5-Wt6YU (adding the link helps)


(LOL i watched it a few times and noticed I think his "swing speed" is faster then ours now!)

[dormetheus]

You said, "ALL attacks in the chain should be equal" and that would not happen simply by restoring speed.

The third and fourth animation are slower than the first and second one.

Then couldn't they just be sped up?

[Borror0]

Then couldn't they just be sped up?

Apparently, no. I don't know if it's because of technical limitation or if it's because it would look ridiculous.

[dormetheus]

Apparently, no. I don't know if it's because of technical limitation or if it's because it would look ridiculous.

Well that's a b**ch. Then they should average out the speed of the four/five attacks in the chain versus how many hits you would get in a 2-chain (twitch speed should be our baseline) over a minute.

[Femanon]

its not a cosmetic issue, animation is key in timing your attacks in many action games and DDO is one of them, no game is perfect, but this is not a frivolous issue