Many are upset re:combat changes, if you can't tell. Maybe you should talk to us?

[Strakeln]

edit: Turbine has spoken to us


I think the title says it all, but I'll expand for the hell of it:

You took one of the best elements of this game and dramatically changed it, a move that many perceive as detrimental. Here's some starter questions:

1) You say you're not done yet. What are you considering changing?
2) WHEN might we see such changes?
3) Why wasn't this tested on Lammania, so you could gather feedback before going live?
4) Why was this put in a patch?

Communication is the one thing almost all DDO players can agree was lacking over the last year. Don't continue the process. Talk with us.

[cdbd3rd]

We're planning on making changes to the changes, I'll announce more once I've got some concrete stats for people.

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=336

[Strakeln]

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=336

Check my four questions again. None of them are answered by this post, unless you count "Soon™" as an appropriate response to #2.

And, once again, isn't gathering feedback and making changes something that is done on a test server?

[Memnir]

I know that does not answer any of your four questions, but frankly I'm stunned we've gotten that much out of em this soon.

[smatt]

And while they're at it... I'd like to know.......

1. What each one had for breakfast
2. Where are they going out for a beer after work, and what kind of beer do they like.
3. What color is their kitchen?
4. How much do they make?
5. Who did they vote for?
6. How's the insurance plan at Turbine?
7. Does Eladrin have an assigned parking space?
8. Boxers or briefs, panties, or thong?
9. Asprin or Advil?
10. Ski's or snowboard?

Come on we need all the information.... I demand it......

[Thrudh]

Currently you're seeing attacks per minute range from 70.38 to 82.76, with a more or less linear increase from BAB 3 through 20.

One of our potential charts shifts the range to 80 to 85, with a much shallower slope as you level. (With this chart, the primary benefits of increased BAB are essentially just the bonus to hit, since the attack speed increase is so minor.) This chart would basically set everyone that's under BAB 16 to a little bit below the equivalent of the old BAB 16 speed, and everyone at 16 or higher would be approximately the same as before the patch. Attack hooks will probably end up shifted around again some more.

Another one actually kicks the attacks per minute to 90 through 95, but would require attack speed improving effects like haste to be toned down so top end attacks per minute would end up the same as pre-patch, but it would essentially perma-partial-haste everyone. Haste itself would become less critical with this change, though.

That last one tend to feel the best, as the animations are nice and fast from level one to cap, but there isn't very much feeling of attack speed progression as you level, and haste becomes somewhat less of a must-have.

here you go

[Mercules]

Check my four questions again. None of them are answered by this post...

So it is a good idea to create Yet Another(TM) post to spread the disscusion out over 45 instead of 40 posts? Just join into the most popular post.

[ZippyZipperman]

The way I figure it, being a long time LOTRO subscriber, so I'm used to this kind of stuff on the forums, is would you rather they spend they're time posting in the forums about the problem, or rather they spend that time fixing the problem?

[Limb0]

So was EVERYONE twitching?

I'm new around here so I had no idea ppl were twitching. No one told me to twitch, ***.

And now ppl can't twitch, so they're ****ed?

I don't like the idea of twitching, it smacks of elitism and exploit, and since no one bothered to tell me about it, I'm glad it's not do-able anymore.

[Quanefel]

Strakeln, remember they promised to "change" the game. I was told many times any change is going to be good for the game. I guess I should take back all those negative comments I made in the past about what was coming our way with this "change" Ya know, cause I was wrong?


Expect more wonderful changes ahead. Good times.

[Ithrani]

So was EVERYONE twitching?

I'm new around here so I had no idea ppl were twitching. No one told me to twitch, ***.

And now ppl can't twitch, so they're ****ed?

I don't like the idea of twitching, it smacks of elitism and exploit, and since no one bothered to tell me about it, I'm glad it's not do-able anymore.

It is not just about twitch, you can still twitch actually, it was implemented into DDO since it is a real time combat system. Twitching was a selling point for the game, but more for defensive reasons and not for more DPS. You could twitch fast and dodge incoming arrows, poisons from spiders and scorps, and tumble before the Ogres club landed those big hits. Funny thing about that, their collision detection is terrible so they land anyway. Then people discovered that twitching interrupted your attack series and gave you faster attacks, hehe used to be another way to just swing you main hand weapon very fast instead of the full attack sequence but they fixed that around mod 2 or 3.

And the only real down side to twitching is that if you don't do it you do less DPs, but no one asks, "Do you twitch" and reject you if you don't know what it is. Some did it, some didn't I never cared. I rather auto attack regard less to get off as many special attacks without delay.

The major issue is how slow and boring combat looks and even more so as the OP stated the fact that we get little discussion from the Devs, this wasn't even beta tested and they don't play test their game properly so they have no idea the effect. the only reason things may change again is because of the S-storm they got hit with.

But again the discussion between us and them is more of a monologue with nonsense or useless replies from them, or straight up lies.

Hear, hear Strakeln.

Also any of you that think that posting more threads about the same issue is not useful do not realize that the same thread does not make pages move, multiple pages of threads of the same issue will catch their attention far faster.

And there is no surprise they responded so fast, they had to cause the time has not yet come to lose us VIPS, 1 more mod next year and that's the last of the content, just you watch and see. It will be lame Epic levels I bet just a raise in cap and a generic raid and they will let us grind til we leave. Then downsize the whole DDO team and rake in profits off diehards and F2P. I really hope I am wrong there, I also hope they hear us and start to do right by the customers by having a real discussion about where to go with the game. But I am a Cynic, a hopeful cynic but a cynic still.

[kingfisher]

i think talking to some of 'us' may have helped them get here in the first place. at this point i think that they realize the mistake and will fix (and i use this term loosely) it and we have to wait and see what thats like.

imo the real question here is why the **** would they do this now? new mod in, going well, new players (LOW LEVEL PLAYERS) everywhere, gushing about the ACTIVE combat system.............hmmmmmmmm maybe we should change the combat system unannounced, totally degenerate low level play, and just see what happens? were the drinking at work this week? someone slip some liguid in the coffee machine? a bad case of 5-hour energy? no no i know it was atari! they hacked the patch!

[Strakeln]

So it is a good idea to create Yet Another(TM) post to spread the disscusion out over 45 instead of 40 posts? Just join into the most popular post.

No one said you had to read it. If 44 threads is your limit, why didn't you stop there?

[Strakeln]

So was EVERYONE twitching?

I'm new around here so I had no idea ppl were twitching. No one told me to twitch, ***.

And now ppl can't twitch, so they're ****ed?

I don't like the idea of twitching, it smacks of elitism and exploit, and since no one bothered to tell me about it, I'm glad it's not do-able anymore.

Heaven forbid skill makes you a better player!

Heaven forbid you do a little research and find the multiple threads and videos demonstrating proper twitch techniques!

No one expects you to come into the game on day 1 as an expert. But if you stick around and fail to learn anything, don't blame us.

[Strakeln]

i think talking to some of 'us' may have helped them get here in the first place. at this point i think that they realize the mistake and will fix (and i use this term loosely) it and we have to wait and see what thats like.

Good point. I've often said that you have to be careful what you ask Turbine for, as it can be like dealing with the devil. You know... you wish that the most beautiful woman in the world loves you unconditionally, so he grants your wish and *poof* your Mom is hot.

We ask for crafting and *poof* we get a mod with no named or raid loot.

We ask to get rid of the silly raid flagging mechanisms and *poof* we get the same mechanisms, but on a quest, not a raid

We ask for melee style balance and *poof* something with minimal testing and feedback gets shoved to live at a time that is arguably critical to the success of the game, and feels like it was implemented by a guy with true white boy rhythm.

What the hell, Turbine? Why do we have to spell everything out to the most minute detail? And really... who decided to push this live without gathering feedback from a wide selection of the playerbase? If it isn't clear by now, those assmonkies on Mournlands are just telling you what you want to hear... replace them with people who will be willing to give you real feedback, even if it hurts.

imo the real question here is why the **** would they do this now? new mod in, going well, new players (LOW LEVEL PLAYERS) everywhere, gushing about the ACTIVE combat system.............hmmmmmmmm maybe we should change the combat system unannounced, totally degenerate low level play, and just see what happens? were the drinking at work this week? someone slip some liguid in the coffee machine? a bad case of 5-hour energy? no no i know it was atari! they hacked the patch!

Yeah... yeah. I've seen Turbine full some really dumb moves in the past, but holy **** does this take the cake. Really over the top this time. If you're going to mess with the very system that distinguishes you from the riffraff, you had better be very careful doing it.

[cdbd3rd]

Check my four questions again. None of them are answered by this post, unless you count "Soon™" as an appropriate response to #2.

And, once again, isn't gathering feedback and making changes something that is done on a test server?

I sorta took half of those as rhetorical since we all know full well we won't get any sort of "when" til they figure out what they're gonna do.

To have gotten a "we're looking at it" already is a good thing.

[smatt]

Good point. I've often said that you have to be careful what you ask Turbine for, as it can be like dealing with the devil. You know... you wish that the most beautiful woman in the world loves you unconditionally, so he grants your wish and *poof* your Mom is hot.

We ask for crafting and *poof* we get a mod with no named or raid loot.

We ask to get rid of the silly raid flagging mechanisms and *poof* we get the same mechanisms, but on a quest, not a raid

We ask for melee style balance and *poof* something with minimal testing and feedback gets shoved to live at a time that is arguably critical to the success of the game, and feels like it was implemented by a guy with true white boy rhythm.

What the hell, Turbine? Why do we have to spell everything out to the most minute detail? And really... who decided to push this live without gathering feedback from a wide selection of the playerbase? If it isn't clear by now, those assmonkies on Mournlands are just telling you what you want to hear... replace them with people who will be willing to give you real feedback, even if it hurts.


Yeah... yeah. I've seen Turbine full some really dumb moves in the past, but holy **** does this take the cake. Really over the top this time. If you're going to mess with the very system that distinguishes you from the riffraff, you had better be very careful doing it.

Hmm... Yep good post...... A little confrontational, but hey a lot of people are ****ed off again.... I will add that pushing this combat change now was a bad idea. This was and will be a major change to the game, it indeed needed more testing and feedback. They shuold've spent more tiem streamlining what they already had out, fixing the old/new bugs. Then perhaps, for such a major change brought Lama back-up for a bit with the new combabt system for at least a few REAL players to test and give feedback on.

What's been left by the wayside now are the many bugs through out the game that now won't be addressed because they have to fix the fix to the combat system....

[Seneca_Windforge]

Good point. I've often said that you have to be careful what you ask Turbine for, as it can be like dealing with the devil. You know... you wish that the most beautiful woman in the world loves you unconditionally, so he grants your wish and *poof* your Mom is hot.

We ask for crafting and *poof* we get a mod with no named or raid loot.

We ask to get rid of the silly raid flagging mechanisms and *poof* we get the same mechanisms, but on a quest, not a raid

We ask for melee style balance and *poof* something with minimal testing and feedback gets shoved to live at a time that is arguably critical to the success of the game, and feels like it was implemented by a guy with true white boy rhythm.

What the hell, Turbine? Why do we have to spell everything out to the most minute detail? And really... who decided to push this live without gathering feedback from a wide selection of the playerbase? If it isn't clear by now, those assmonkies on Mournlands are just telling you what you want to hear... replace them with people who will be willing to give you real feedback, even if it hurts.


Yeah... yeah. I've seen Turbine full some really dumb moves in the past, but holy **** does this take the cake. Really over the top this time. If you're going to mess with the very system that distinguishes you from the riffraff, you had better be very careful doing it.

Yep, this sums things up nicely.

[quintuss]

This may be the 45'th thread covering the combat changes, but i'll jump in again to emphasize:

Whatever you change from this point on, MAKE COMBAT FEEL FAST AGAIN AND DON'T DARE TO SLOW IT DOWN AFTER THAT!

That being said, i like the fact that they acknowledged their failure pretty fast.
Now hush, hush, back to the dev environment and revert to the old version in your CVS.

[Browork]

"Mobile attacks are no longer sometimes faster than standing attacks."(Patch Release Notes)

I feel that if I have spent these three feats:
Dodge
Mobility
Spring attack

My mobile attacks should be faster and more accurate than those without these feats.
And Movement for this type of toon,is crucial typically outfited in light to med or no armor,standing still is not an option.

So,if I spent the feats to "Twitch" let us.