BAB Speed in Patch 1

[Avonwey]

Unless this gets fixed soon - or at least acknowledged by developers that it will be fixed - then my return to DDO will be quite short lived.

Perhaps an explanation why so many users' fun is being reduced?

[Leia]

The speed at high levels is somewhat acceptable.. Still Slower.. But I think most people could get used to it over time.

Its the low level speed that is simply unnacceptable. Until you log into a BAB 1-9 character, you cant possibly understand what we are seeing here.

i can believe that... i'll have to login a lowbie and check it out for myself...

not to argue, but more to play devil's advocate, admitting that i havent seen the slowness of a lowbie, but they are low level characters with low BAB's after all... they shouldn't be killers - yet. gives you motivation to level your toon, no?

[eonfreon]

i can believe that... i'll have to login a lowbie and check it out for myself...

not to argue, but more to play devil's advocate, admitting that i havent seen the slowness of a lowbie, but they are low level characters with low BAB's after all... they shouldn't be killers - yet. gives you motivation to level your toon, no?

No. Gives me no motivation to even play a lowbie.

[Seneca_Windforge]

No. Gives me no motivation to even play a lowbie.

Exactly.

Part of the fun of DDO for many is the journey, rather than the destination. The journey after the recent patch is full of suck.

[Ephemeral]

I don't see the difference between posting all the anger in one thread or posting a thousand threads about the topic, except that the latter makes it harder to gather feedback. Now, if the thread about the topic got derailed, I'd see the point - but that didn't happen.

Personally, I prefer closing threads than merging them. Merges lead to ugly aberration while closing threads moves the discussion to one spot.

Also, it's been less than a day since the change went live. I think they need a little more time before coming up with promise of change.

I'm going to be blunt here. If you're talking about the thread that you started Borror0 where you took credit for the changes, and we had a whole bunch of people eulogizing the changes before they'd even tried them out, the one *big* problem with that thread is that it starts out with a lot of vapidly positive comments about the changes.

Its only later on in the thread, once people actually you know, played the **** game with the changes, that they realised what a major disaster this patch was.

The key issue with that thread then is that some idiot in Turbine could well take it as a 'balanced' reaction from the playerbase, with some liking the changes and some not.

Such an interpretation would be disastrous.

Far better to have a thread like this one that starts on topic, and succinctly tells Turbine that they screwed up.

Impaqt is right; if the mobs were reduced in speed, then the change might be bearable (even then, its still a dramatic reduction in twitch requirements from players and goes against one of the big strengths of ddo).

Turbine didn't just drop the ball on this one; this patch has too many changes in it to be considered a post-mod 9 quick fix. They have deliberately released a major set of gameplay changes without getting any QA feedback. The goodwill that they got when we all discovered they were suing Atari is rapidly being destroyed by moves like the changes to the store-bought bags, and this change around combat.

The changes were unnecessary and they are harming the game. They need to be reverted out quickly, and Turbine needs to consider implementing a mandatory requirement that it QAs gameplay changes like this on beta servers before they're ever released in production.

[Archetype]

/barf

The "Mod 9" DDO recruitment process will now sound something like:

"Hey, come try Dungeons & Dragons Online: Eberron Unlimited, guys! I have been playing for 3 years now because of it's excellent real-time combat system. Let's hop into the Waterworks with a level 1 fighter and see what all the excitement is about, shall we?"

<*splish* *splarsh* *splish* splarsh*>

"Look! Kobolds! Attack!"

LOWBIE MELEE: <sssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhwwwwwwwwwwiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iinnnnnnnnnnnggg......(to be continued)...............>

"pre-Mod 9" attacking KOBOLD: "Yark! Yark!" <<Swing&HIT! (You take 3 point damage, 1 was blocked by your DR)>

LOWBIE MELEE: <........gggggg. HIT!>(You hit Kobold for 8 points of damage.....eventually.)

"***?"

"Um, no, really guys, this is the BEST...uh...realtime...umm...."

LOWBIE MELEE: <sssssssshhh......(to be continued)............"pre-Mod 9" attacking KOBOLD: "Yark! Yark!" <Swing&HIT! (You take 3 points damage, 1 was blocked by your DR)>
hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"Yark! Yark!" <Swing&HIT! (You take 1 point damage, 1 was blocked by your DR)>
hhhhhhwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww"Yark! Yark!" <Swing&HIT! (You take 2 points damage, 1 was blocked by your DR)>
wwwiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii"Yark! Yark!" <Swing&HIT! (You take 4 points damage, 1 was blocked by your DR)>
iiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn"Yark! Yark!" <Swing&HIT! (You take 2 points damage, 1 was blocked by your DR)>
nnngggggggggggggggggg......(to be continued)...............>





"Uh, what I meant to say was....ah forget it...what's the name of your guild going to be on Aion, btw?"


Thanks for invalidating the last 3 years....it was a pipe dream I guess...

[KoboldKiller]

Personally, the changes aren't as dramatic or game breaking to me as people are making it out. Yes, the animation is slower on my level 7 FVS but the added attack made it easier for me to kill MOBs. I took fewer hits when I soloed Gwaylans last night by killing them faster than I did pre-patch. As for the bags, big deal, it makes sense from a business standpoint to make them character bound instead of account bound. Nobody says you HAVE to buy a bag anyway. I never bought a bag before and I don't plan to now.


"The key issue with that thread then is that some idiot in Turbine could well take it as a 'balanced' reaction from the playerbase, with some liking the changes and some not."

I don't see everyone hating the changes.

[Hokiewa]

The speed at high levels is somewhat acceptable.. Still Slower.. But I think most people could get used to it over time.

Its the low level speed that is simply unnacceptable. Until you log into a BAB 1-9 character, you cant possibly understand what we are seeing here.

lol, couldn't agree more. On a lark, I sped a twf ranger to level 3 and tested how long the crystals took to break in Fresco.......2 acid scimmys=2mins and rougly 13 seconds....I knew it was slow before, but certainly not that slow. If anyone has doubts, break a door or two.....LMAO!

[cdbd3rd]

LOWBIE MELEE: <sssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhwwwwwwwwwwiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iinnnnnnnnnnnggg......(to be continued)...............>

...

*chuckle @ that.


meanwhile...

We're planning on making changes to the changes, I'll announce more once I've got some concrete stats for people.

http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=336

[Strakeln]

I'm not sure why you felt the need to start another thread about the topic. There are already several threads discussing this. You could just have picked one.

To properly express outrage.

Making a huge, sweeping change like this, in a patch, with no feedback from the public... well, there's a few words that come to mind, but none that I should share on this forum. Certainly not the smartest choice in the world.

Seriously, I want to know who the hell playtested this and said to themselves, "YEAH! This doesn't limit the fun or feel of the game at all! Ship it!".

That person needs to be fired and blacklisted.

The more threads, the better. BACK THIS CHANGE OUT, TURBINE.

[Impaqt]

i can believe that... i'll have to login a lowbie and check it out for myself...

not to argue, but more to play devil's advocate, admitting that i havent seen the slowness of a lowbie, but they are low level characters with low BAB's after all... they shouldn't be killers - yet. gives you motivation to level your toon, no?

As I said in the original post, its not so much the slowness of us that bugs me so much. I like the concept...

My bigest issue is that Mobs have not been effected by this change and they attack the same speed they always have. If WE need to be rebalance, so do the mobs. Its the Incredible differenctial between players and mobs that is my biggest gripe.

[Drekisen]

My honest opinion on this, Turbine is in over thier heads. A regular subscription gets us 500 free TP a month which technically means between regular play and the free points we could go F2P within a short amount of time and buy all the adventure packs and at that point not have to pay a dime anymore.

Usually most games are either F2P with an item mall but no restriction to a player if they don't use it, or they are a monthly subscription up front and all things are equal. I think DDO trying to capitalize on both of those aspects is going to be a very long process, so everyone that plans on sticking around may just wanna slow down with the attack speed, because I don't forsee this is going to be a simple fix.

They need to do something to both make non subs wanna use the store and incline paying subs to either go F2P and use the store or stay paying subs. This is not going to be easy to do, as we are already witnessing.

The original release of EU looked succesful, now they are simply showing signs of nothing but greed, and very little interest in player opinion.With a change like this I can forsee that they know they are not going to be able to please both types of players and probably just go with the more profitable. In this case it looks like F2P, because they had to of known what kind of impact this would make on vet players yet they did it anyways.

That's ok tho, I have a lot of other games I have been wanting to spend item mall money on, and this will enable me to cancel my sub and still play DDO when I feel bored with the others, which is what DDO is quickly becoming, an alt to alleviate my boredom of another MMO instead of my favorite.

[Borror0]

While I totally agree in principle, I'm afraid I just don't feel like being patient anymore.

I understand the anger perfectly but, what do you want Turbine to do? Rush and announce a change within less than 24 hours?

It would be irresponsible to do so. Give them at least 24 hours to decide on what to do.

[Gol]

It would be irresponsible to do so. Give them at least 24 hours to decide on what to do.

It was live by this time yesterday. Time's up.

edit: and the link above states that changes are coming, nevermind...

[WolfSpirit]

Concern #1:
I'm a twitch skill player. That is, I don't twitch my character to break any attack sequence to achieve a higher dps, but I kill them QUICKLY move to another monster etc. I do peel off one if I notice a Caster type has entered the frey. My Human skill often gets me more Monster Flesh than even the Supertweeked Maxed Barb. I am a mobile kinda player.
Concern #2:
My Melee characters (3) are all two weapon fighters. And they each have Evasion via multiclassing. (1 with 2 rogue, 2 with 2 Monk) So None of them are going to be getting to BAB 20 EVER. So will those characters forever be noticable slower? One will be FvS Dual Warrior and not even ever get near that BAB. (Not sure what it will cap out at 18FvS 2Monk) But I WASN'T overly concerned at the time of conception cause I didn't figure I'd need to worry about SPEED of attacks, only the To Hit aspect of BAB. That with a Full Range of Expensive +2 Tomes...
I'm still confused as to how these changes are going to impact my Playstyle AND my Preferred Character Builds.
Am I Wacked with a Double Banger?

[Impaqt]

Concern #1:
I'm a twitch skill player. That is, I don't twitch my character to break any attack sequence to achieve a higher dps, but I kill them QUICKLY move to another monster etc. I do peel off one if I notice a Caster type has entered the frey. My Human skill often gets me more Monster Flesh than even the Supertweeked Maxed Barb. I am a mobile kinda player.
Concern #2:
My Melee characters (3) are all two weapon fighters. And they each have Evasion via multiclassing. (1 with 2 rogue, 2 with 2 Monk) So None of them are going to be getting to BAB 20 EVER. So will those characters forever be noticable slower? One will be FvS Dual Warrior and not even ever get near that BAB. (Not sure what it will cap out at 18FvS 2Monk) But I WASN'T overly concerned at the time of conception cause I didn't figure I'd need to worry about SPEED of attacks, only the To Hit aspect of BAB. That with a Full Range of Expensive +2 Tomes...
I'm still confused as to how these changes are going to impact my Playstyle AND my Preferred Character Builds.
Am I Wacked with a Double Banger?

Dont worry about your FvS. Divine power bumps your BAB up to your class level.
(So does Madstone BTW, Great reason to get those boots on everyone)

[rh75]

Both for the good and the bad, only a look at the combat log before and after would tell you if you are killing more effectively or not. That being said, the crowd of people complaining here are not crazy. You attack slower now seeming to be the consensus opinion.

Personally, the changes aren't as dramatic or game breaking to me as people are making it out. Yes, the animation is slower on my level 7 FVS but the added attack made it easier for me to kill MOBs. I took fewer hits when I soloed Gwaylans last night by killing them faster than I did pre-patch. As for the bags, big deal, it makes sense from a business standpoint to make them character bound instead of account bound. Nobody says you HAVE to buy a bag anyway. I never bought a bag before and I don't plan to now.


"The key issue with that thread then is that some idiot in Turbine could well take it as a 'balanced' reaction from the playerbase, with some liking the changes and some not."

I don't see everyone hating the changes.

[WolfSpirit]

Dont worry about your FvS. Divine power bumps your BAB up to your class level.
(So does Madstone BTW, Great reason to get those boots on everyone)

Thought I read somewhere that divine power & Madstone wasn't going to work for this now... Searching...

[Vivanto]

Dont worry about your FvS. Divine power bumps your BAB up to your class level.
(So does Madstone BTW, Great reason to get those boots on everyone)

Currently these things are either bugged or they decided that partial bab classes should get hosed. They may as well just rename tenser/madstone/dp heck even flurry's description from "grants full bab" to "grants +x attack bonus". The increased bab dosen't grant adittional melee speed.

[Valiance]

...
With a change like this I can forsee that they know they are not going to be able to please both types of players and probably just go with the more profitable. In this case it looks like F2P, because they had to of known what kind of impact this would make on vet players yet they did it anyways.

That's ok tho, I have a lot of other games I have been wanting to spend item mall money on, and this will enable me to cancel my sub and still play DDO when I feel bored with the others, which is what DDO is quickly becoming, an alt to alleviate my boredom of another MMO instead of my favorite.

I have no idea how anyone could think this change helps F2Ps. As a matter of fact that is the biggest bonehead thing about this entire change. F2Ps are new, they are rolling up low level characters. We are trying to get them hooked on the game so that they get addicted and either start dropping money for TP or subscribe to VIP status.

So WHY WHY WHY do you completely nerf the combat for low level characters? lol. It makes absolutely zero sense and goes against the entire concept of the F2P experiment.

Seriously Eladrin. I know you probably got some broad leeway to change the game as much as you wanted as this is a bit of a "rebirth". But with big power comes big responsibility. You have got to test changes before they go live and just because you CAN change something doesn't mean you SHOULD.

V