BAB Speed in Patch 1

[AnderlornLOTR]

The single most compelling reason I play DDO (that is, fast paced interactive combat) is now a shell of it's former self. I play characters through Waterworks all the time just because I like the feel of the game at lower levels. That, sadly, is just flat out gone now.

I'm not mad at all, honestly. I'm just a bit saddened to see the single best feature of the game completely stripped and taken out without a single warning or any feedback at all from the players.

I saw Borror0 claim credit for the idea, and I remember thinking it was bad when he first posted it (and even worse when Eladrin replied). I blame Borror0 - <tongue in cheek>under the bus with you.</tongue in cheek>

Yes yes, the Turbine way. At least DDO, does not suffer too much from Turbine physics like LOTRO does. Arrows hitting you after you have gone behind the wall or arrows zig zagging through trees.

[ShotByBothSides]

Pre update I was having a great time with DDO:U
Post update I am not enjoying the game as much

I have played since DDO first launched and this change is the only one that has made me wonder what the hell the designers are up to.

Combat in DDO is what makes DDO stand heads above the rest, please let us stay heads above the rest and not sink to their mediocrity.

[Tharlak]

I don't see the difference between posting all the anger in one thread or posting a thousand threads about the topic, except that the latter makes it harder to gather feedback. Now, if the thread about the topic got derailed, I'd see the point - but that didn't happen.

Personally, I prefer closing threads than merging them. Merges lead to ugly aberration while closing threads moves the discussion to one spot.

Also, it's been less than a day since the change went live. I think they need a little more time before coming up with promise of change.

While I did not start this thread, or the others, I'm /signing all of them.

The point of the multiple threads is perhaps "not to get missed". If the dev's choose not to read or follow up on the ONE thread that is discussing the anger. Maybe they won't miss the anger if EVERY THREAD generate is about this topic and nothing else.

[Quikster]

All I have to say is thank freakin God my lowbie hit lvl 4 the night b4 the patch!!!
That is all.

[Tharlak]

Pre update I was having a great time with DDO:U
Post update I am not enjoying the game as much

I have played since DDO first launched and this change is the only one that has made me wonder what the hell the designers are up to.

Combat in DDO is what makes DDO stand heads above the rest, please let us stay heads above the rest and not sink to their mediocrity.

Absolutely right.

I'm currently trying out several new characters due to expanded slots (thanks DDO store). But last night I had NO FUN what so ever as all of my new lowbies felt permanently slowed.

[Gol]

I don't see the difference between posting all the anger in one thread or posting a thousand threads about the topic, except that the latter makes it harder to gather feedback. Now, if the thread about the topic got derailed, I'd see the point - but that didn't happen.

Personally, I prefer closing threads than merging them. Merges lead to ugly aberration while closing threads moves the discussion to one spot.

Also, it's been less than a day since the change went live. I think they need a little more time before coming up with promise of change.

Because your idea was implemented that poorly. Whether it was the idea or the implementation that is really to blame, I'm not going to hazard a guess. IMO, you're just being defensive, and understandably so. Nobody likes having angry/upset fingers pointing at them. People are really ticked off by the changes, and we likely wouldn't have gotten them in this flavor if you hadn't posted and Eladrin hadn't seen it.

My 2 copper.

[Borror0]

While I did not start this thread, or the others, I'm /signing all of them.

The point of the multiple threads is perhaps "not to get missed". If the dev's choose not to read or follow up on the ONE thread that is discussing the anger. Maybe they won't miss the anger if EVERY THREAD generate is about this topic and nothing else.

Eladrin already read the feedback in one of them.

Also, if a thread grows big, I think Tolero and Tarrant will at least take a quick look. You know, it's their job.

[Leia]

granted i havent tested the new system extensively... but my initial impressions on a TWF lvl 18 toon with BAB 14 (divine p 18) was totally acceptable, and i couldnt tell what the big deal is.

[Cedwin]

/signed

I feel like I'm fighting in slow motion after the last patch. It wouldn't be so obvious if everything else wasn't attacking me at the same speeds we used to be at. Right now though, it feels like I have "Slow" cast on me whenever I fight. It was horrible in waterworks yesterday with my new lowbie. A pack of 4 or 5 kobalds jump on me, hitting me with two hits each for every one swing that I make.

I don't know, I played for a couple of hours yesterday and I just didn't have as much fun as I usually do, I ended up logging off early.

[Borror0]

Nobody likes having angry/upset fingers pointing at them.

I think you're underestimating my ability to not take things too seriously. I just laugh at people throwing insults at me.

I'm not defending myself. (Actually, I don't know how the post you quoted gave you the impression that I was defending myself.) There is one good flaw in the implementation: it's too slow. I agree with that, so I don't know what you think I'm defending myself of.

[eonfreon]

Also, it's been less than a day since the change went live. I think they need a little more time before coming up with promise of change.

While I totally agree in principle, I'm afraid I just don't feel like being patient anymore. I know, it's only a day, but it did indeed "ruin" my game last night. I was showing an old buddy around on F2P. He played before, heck he's the one that found DDO's existence in the first place and turned me on to it.

He's played it before, over a year ago, and first thing he noticed was the attack speed being slowed.
I know we're biased because we're comparing it to what it looked like before, but what are we supposed to compare it to?

The fact that Haste has just become all the more "necessary" just to get it to look right does not sit well with me at all. I know, we're supposed to be "perma-hasted" and that's what they assume, but we are not always perma-hasted.

After running with my friend I quickly logged into the forums and read the patch notes, and said "huh?"
I don't recall any "warning" given that they were monkeying yet again with the combat system.
Well, Turbine may have finally made it "unfun" to me to play a few of my characters.
My playstyle involved movement.

I'm sure I can compensate and adapt, but I'm kind of at the point where I'm tired of it.
I know I haven't lost attacks per se, but it is affecting my combat and causing me to miss more because I always move, not to break a chain, but to use the MOBS own bodies against them. Now the MOBS definitely have had more attack rolls on me then ever before.

I know they're "working on it" but when the feedback is so overwhelming negative, even from us who don't mind reasonable changes, then yeah a promise of change **** soon is indeed the right thing to do.

ANd yes in this case, "just change it back", would be a good idea. We're running new quests and having fun with our friends. I don't feel like testing out and giving feedback to tweak yet another ****ing change.

Waiting on another MOD update before making any more large changes might have been prudent, rather than making a change without any warning. That's my opinion.

Anyway, when I get back from work I'll see if today's hotfix actually "fixed" anything.
Has anyone been on since today's hotfix and can say if combat movement got changed for the better? Or does it still suck?

[The_Phenx]

Easy fix Eladrin, just shorten the length of a round by about 10% to keep the same visual perception of how it felt before.

[KKDragonLord]

Since it seems allowed to repost things here:

Your lowbies "are going to DPS very-very-slowly"

[Giselle]

I hate it. I hate it. I hate it.

When I logged in yesterday and saw how slow my lowbies swing, I actually considered quitting for the first time in three years. The most exciting part of the new mod for me was being able to buy toon slots, and now I don't even want to play my lowbies.

This game is something special already. The bells and whistles are nice but unnecessary. Please don't mess with what works! Just give us more stuff to do!

[rh75]

I will add my two cents and say I built a halfling monk to use the wind stance and kamas because it was the fastest configuration I could find. Now it feels like any other TWF toon. Weeeeeeee.

[Gol]

I think you're underestimating my ability to not take things too seriously. I just laugh at people throwing insults at me.

More importantly, there is one good flaw in the implementation: it's too slow.

Yes, I know the implementation is botched - it's been botched since alpha and beta. IMO, the fundamental problem is that the D&D combat system of 1 attack per 6 seconds until BAB 5 really restricts the implementation options. To further complicate things, DDO's stat inflation means you don't need the higher + attacks at endgame. What's the ideal implementation? I don't know. I'm not going to waste time thinking about one.

I fully understand your ability to take things other people post not seriously. It comes with being a veteran forum troll. I don't know where you came from prior to DDO, but I know you've earned your forum veteran stripes here, at least. I earned mine a long time ago somewhere else, and I've regressed from forum vet to cranky grandpa forum troll here (to the detriment of my reputation).

[Jaguras]

/signed

I simply cant get used to the current Attack Speed. I just cant. It feels awkward.

[KKDragonLord]

BTW did anyone notice if they change things during this downtime of today?
Even if it was a very-very-small increase? Bc that would show they are trying to adjust it in some way perhaps.

[spifflove]

I think you're underestimating my ability to not take things too seriously. I just laugh at people throwing insults at me.

I'm not defending myself. (Actually, I don't know how the post you quoted gave you the impression that I was defending myself.) There is one good flaw in the implementation: it's too slow. I agree with that, so I don't know what you think I'm defending myself of.

Even good, well thought out ideas need to be playtested before they are made live.

[Impaqt]

granted i havent tested the new system extensively... but my initial impressions on a TWF lvl 18 toon with BAB 14 (divine p 18) was totally acceptable, and i couldnt tell what the big deal is.

The speed at high levels is somewhat acceptable.. Still Slower.. But I think most people could get used to it over time.

Its the low level speed that is simply unnacceptable. Until you log into a BAB 1-9 character, you cant possibly understand what we are seeing here.