BAB Speed in Patch 1

[Impaqt]

This has made playing a new character incredibly not fun.

I dont so much mind the overall slower speed except for one minor detail.

Mobs have not been effected at ALL by this change. They still attack just as fast as they ever did.

If your going to rebalance how fast we attack, you NEED to rebalance how fast we are getting hit as well. Its just silly to see CR.25 Kobolds hitting me twice for every swing I can get off.

how exactly are mobs that should have the same or lower BAB as me be attacking so much faster?

Balanceing out the broken combat system by reducing everyone to the least common denominator has got to be on the list of the worst ideas in DDO.

If our attack speed is going to remain so slugish, please adjust the mobs down to compensate.

One of the things I really enjoy about this game is rolling new characters. Leveling them up. Seeing the entire game from the viewpoint of a different playstyle....

This change makes me not want to play my lowbies at all.. and I spent points to get extra slots in order to make more characters with Mod 9. Feeling a bit taken advantage of right now to be honest.

Real Time Combat should not be We swing Reallly Really Slow while the mobs we face swing and cast Really really fast. I honestly had more fun with my lotrO or AoC Lowbies than I am with my DDO Lowbies now. Thats just wrong.

[Memnir]

/signed 100%

[lazlow]

/signed

between this change and this awful and annoying "mousegate" business i find the game near unplayable in its current state.

fix this please as its ra*ing my enjoyment level and even cr*ck wont work (level 3 atm)

laz

[Borror0]

I'm not sure why you felt the need to start another thread about the topic. There are already several threads discussing this. You could just have picked one.

[Impaqt]

I'm not sure why you felt the need to start another thread about the topic. There are already several threads discussing this. You could just have picked one.

because this is an important topic. The more attention the threads get the better. Plus, I always feel My opinions deserve their own thread.

[Memnir]

Because Eladrin said if we "felt slighted" by the changes, they'd notice and adjust it over time. People feel way beyond slighted by this, and the change needs to happen rather quickly. I hope the Devs are noticing.

More posts means more visibility on the topic, particularly people's unhappiness with the changes, and I'm all for it.

[dopey69]

thanx for writing this post! this has been the absolute worst idea turbine has ever had...ever and i have been here long enough to see a few! again thanx for this post 100% /signed and you saved me a lot of typeing too
/signed/signed/signed....and i have to spread some **** reputation around! grrrrr

[Hokiewa]

Because Eladrin said if we "felt slighted" by the changes, they'd notice and adjust it over time. People feel way beyond slighted by this, and the change needs to happen rather quickly. I hope the Devs are noticing.

More posts means more visibility on the topic, particularly people's unhappiness with the changes, and I'm all for it.

agreed. I've stopped trying to make sense of every tweak/twitch/adjustment. I do like the part in the release notes "animation speeds have been adjusted", not "slowed to a snail's pace".

[Borror0]

Because Eladrin said if we "felt slighted" by the changes, they'd notice and adjust it over time. People feel way beyond slighted by this, and the change needs to happen rather quickly. I hope the Devs are noticing.

More posts means more visibility on the topic, particularly people's unhappiness with the changes, and I'm all for it.

I don't see the difference between posting all the anger in one thread or posting a thousand threads about the topic, except that the latter makes it harder to gather feedback. Now, if the thread about the topic got derailed, I'd see the point - but that didn't happen.

Hopefully after enough threads are running about it, they'll let us know they're paying attention to the issue by combining the threads and... well, whatever they do after doing that. Reading it all, hopefully maybe?

Personally, I prefer closing threads than merging them. Merges lead to ugly aberration while closing threads moves the discussion to one spot.

Also, it's been less than a day since the change went live. I think they need a little more time before coming up with promise of change.

[Memnir]

Logically, you are right Borror. Problem is, when people are angry logic often does not factor into the equation. And people are indeed angry over this. Impaqt at least made this a well thought out critique of the changes - and did not just post a "This suxors! Change it back!" kind of thing.

I think it says a lot for how the game as a whole is reacting that a wide range of player types feel the need to complain about it. No, how many different player types hate the change.

And, unless Turbine feels the need to collect all the assorted threads on the topic into one mega-thread as they have in the past... people will continue to voice their personal opinions on the matter how the feel its best to do so. Personally, I'm hoping they do amass a mega-thread, because then I'd know they are paying attention.

[Gol]

The single most compelling reason I play DDO (that is, fast paced interactive combat) is now a shell of it's former self. I play characters through Waterworks all the time just because I like the feel of the game at lower levels. That, sadly, is just flat out gone now.

I'm not mad at all, honestly. I'm just a bit saddened to see the single best feature of the game completely stripped and taken out without a single warning or any feedback at all from the players.

I saw Borror0 claim credit for the idea, and I remember thinking it was bad when he first posted it (and even worse when Eladrin replied). I blame Borror0 - <tongue in cheek>under the bus with you.</tongue in cheek>

[cdbd3rd]

Personally, I prefer closing threads than merging them. Merges lead to ugly aberration while losing threads moves the discussion to one spot.

Also, it's been less than a day since the change went live. I think they need a little more time before coming up with promise of change.

I hear ya, on both counts.

Closing threads with referrals to an 'official' thread would work - letting us know we have their attention.

(Disclaimer: I post such without having looked to see if today's hotfix is anything relevant.)

[Tharlak]

I don't see the difference between posting all the anger in one thread or posting a thousand threads about the topic, except that the latter makes it harder to gather feedback. Now, if the thread about the topic got derailed, I'd see the point - but that didn't happen.

Personally, I prefer closing threads than merging them. Merges lead to ugly aberration while closing threads moves the discussion to one spot.

Also, it's been less than a day since the change went live. I think they need a little more time before coming up with promise of change.

While I did not start this thread, or the others, I'm /signing all of them.

The point of the multiple threads is perhaps "not to get missed". If the dev's choose not to read or follow up on the ONE thread that is discussing the anger. Maybe they won't miss the anger if EVERY THREAD generate is about this topic and nothing else.

[Gol]

I don't see the difference between posting all the anger in one thread or posting a thousand threads about the topic, except that the latter makes it harder to gather feedback. Now, if the thread about the topic got derailed, I'd see the point - but that didn't happen.

Personally, I prefer closing threads than merging them. Merges lead to ugly aberration while closing threads moves the discussion to one spot.

Also, it's been less than a day since the change went live. I think they need a little more time before coming up with promise of change.

Because your idea was implemented that poorly. Whether it was the idea or the implementation that is really to blame, I'm not going to hazard a guess. IMO, you're just being defensive, and understandably so. Nobody likes having angry/upset fingers pointing at them. People are really ticked off by the changes, and we likely wouldn't have gotten them in this flavor if you hadn't posted and Eladrin hadn't seen it.

My 2 copper.

[eonfreon]

Also, it's been less than a day since the change went live. I think they need a little more time before coming up with promise of change.

While I totally agree in principle, I'm afraid I just don't feel like being patient anymore. I know, it's only a day, but it did indeed "ruin" my game last night. I was showing an old buddy around on F2P. He played before, heck he's the one that found DDO's existence in the first place and turned me on to it.

He's played it before, over a year ago, and first thing he noticed was the attack speed being slowed.
I know we're biased because we're comparing it to what it looked like before, but what are we supposed to compare it to?

The fact that Haste has just become all the more "necessary" just to get it to look right does not sit well with me at all. I know, we're supposed to be "perma-hasted" and that's what they assume, but we are not always perma-hasted.

After running with my friend I quickly logged into the forums and read the patch notes, and said "huh?"
I don't recall any "warning" given that they were monkeying yet again with the combat system.
Well, Turbine may have finally made it "unfun" to me to play a few of my characters.
My playstyle involved movement.

I'm sure I can compensate and adapt, but I'm kind of at the point where I'm tired of it.
I know I haven't lost attacks per se, but it is affecting my combat and causing me to miss more because I always move, not to break a chain, but to use the MOBS own bodies against them. Now the MOBS definitely have had more attack rolls on me then ever before.

I know they're "working on it" but when the feedback is so overwhelming negative, even from us who don't mind reasonable changes, then yeah a promise of change **** soon is indeed the right thing to do.

ANd yes in this case, "just change it back", would be a good idea. We're running new quests and having fun with our friends. I don't feel like testing out and giving feedback to tweak yet another ****ing change.

Waiting on another MOD update before making any more large changes might have been prudent, rather than making a change without any warning. That's my opinion.

Anyway, when I get back from work I'll see if today's hotfix actually "fixed" anything.
Has anyone been on since today's hotfix and can say if combat movement got changed for the better? Or does it still suck?

[Ephemeral]

I don't see the difference between posting all the anger in one thread or posting a thousand threads about the topic, except that the latter makes it harder to gather feedback. Now, if the thread about the topic got derailed, I'd see the point - but that didn't happen.

Personally, I prefer closing threads than merging them. Merges lead to ugly aberration while closing threads moves the discussion to one spot.

Also, it's been less than a day since the change went live. I think they need a little more time before coming up with promise of change.

I'm going to be blunt here. If you're talking about the thread that you started Borror0 where you took credit for the changes, and we had a whole bunch of people eulogizing the changes before they'd even tried them out, the one *big* problem with that thread is that it starts out with a lot of vapidly positive comments about the changes.

Its only later on in the thread, once people actually you know, played the **** game with the changes, that they realised what a major disaster this patch was.

The key issue with that thread then is that some idiot in Turbine could well take it as a 'balanced' reaction from the playerbase, with some liking the changes and some not.

Such an interpretation would be disastrous.

Far better to have a thread like this one that starts on topic, and succinctly tells Turbine that they screwed up.

Impaqt is right; if the mobs were reduced in speed, then the change might be bearable (even then, its still a dramatic reduction in twitch requirements from players and goes against one of the big strengths of ddo).

Turbine didn't just drop the ball on this one; this patch has too many changes in it to be considered a post-mod 9 quick fix. They have deliberately released a major set of gameplay changes without getting any QA feedback. The goodwill that they got when we all discovered they were suing Atari is rapidly being destroyed by moves like the changes to the store-bought bags, and this change around combat.

The changes were unnecessary and they are harming the game. They need to be reverted out quickly, and Turbine needs to consider implementing a mandatory requirement that it QAs gameplay changes like this on beta servers before they're ever released in production.

[cdbd3rd]

I'm not sure why you felt the need to start another thread about the topic. There are already several threads discussing this. You could just have picked one.

Hopefully after enough threads are running about it, they'll let us know they're paying attention to the issue by combining the threads and... well, whatever they do after doing that. Reading it all, hopefully maybe?

[Strakeln]

I'm not sure why you felt the need to start another thread about the topic. There are already several threads discussing this. You could just have picked one.

To properly express outrage.

Making a huge, sweeping change like this, in a patch, with no feedback from the public... well, there's a few words that come to mind, but none that I should share on this forum. Certainly not the smartest choice in the world.

Seriously, I want to know who the hell playtested this and said to themselves, "YEAH! This doesn't limit the fun or feel of the game at all! Ship it!".

That person needs to be fired and blacklisted.

The more threads, the better. BACK THIS CHANGE OUT, TURBINE.

[cdbd3rd]

....

This change makes me not want to play my lowbies at all...

I have to agree with that exact sentiment - and as badly as I wanted to kick Kargoth's ass for being gone for so long, after two runs I just logged off.

The combo of that with the new mouse control changes... just

[KoboldKiller]

What's the mouse issue as I didn't see any changes with my setup anyway.