why the change with TWF?

[gysot89]

from my understanding TWF is taking a serious DPS gimpage from losing attacks....

from what i have actualy seen in game my dual weilding favored soul lv 8 has lost ALOT of attack speed dual weilding which leads to sucky dps!

my BIG question if im right about it is...... are TWF toons even feasable now as big DPS toons with the decrease in attackspeed?

[Yargore]

TWF is even further ahead of THF now.
At endgame ofcourse.

[gysot89]

really? how is that exactly? im confused now....

enlighten me :P

[Yargore]

really? how is that exactly? im confused now....

enlighten me :P

You get an extra offhand attack, and no slowish 5th animation.

THF lost alot of attacks per second (with twitch).
THF autoattack is however better now than it used to be, but still weaker than TWF.

[gysot89]

so let me get it straight....

they felt that TWF needed to be EVEN BETTER than THF than it already was so they go, drop the 5th swing animation, and in turn mate TWF that much further ahead of THF?

i find this a bit unfair to those toons who use THF then and stick with my origonal whining about the other attack style since i run both lmao

[Roman]

Yargore,

With the exra offhand attack, it seems like GTwF DPS is even better by movng after the second attack to reset the chain, since we now get 4 attacks for the first two swings.

Am I understanding this correctly?

And when does the Tempest III extra swing come into play?

[Ganidel]

so let me get it straight....

they felt that TWF needed to be EVEN BETTER than THF than it already was so they go, drop the 5th swing animation, and in turn mate TWF that much further ahead of THF?

i find this a bit unfair to those toons who use THF then and stick with my origonal whining about the other attack style since i run both lmao

Dps for both is about the same, there more burst dmg now, but not near as bad if hasted.

Stuff dies about at the same speed if they dont move, but if they move, you have to move, which makes killing seems a good bit slower even with haste.


So ppl will be callin haste alot more, because ppl wont even fight non hasted after this.

[Bilger]

It's all about the BAB now your attack speed is based on BAB so lower BAB= slower attack speed. That is why seems slower it will speed up as BAB increases!!

[Femanon]

so let me get it straight....

they felt that TWF needed to be EVEN BETTER than THF than it already was so they go, drop the 5th swing animation, and in turn mate TWF that much further ahead of THF?

i find this a bit unfair to those toons who use THF then and stick with my origonal whining about the other attack style since i run both lmao

umm, yeah, duh?
THF is and has always been way better than TWF, if you want to TWF you NEED another source of damage that adds a flat rate on every hit.

[Roman]

umm, yeah, duh?
THF is and has always been way better than TWF, if you want to TWF you NEED another source of damage that adds a flat rate on every hit.

How was THF always better than TwF?

[Absolute-Omniscience]

Yargore,

With the exra offhand attack, it seems like GTwF DPS is even better by movng after the second attack to reset the chain, since we now get 4 attacks for the first two swings.

Am I understanding this correctly?

And when does the Tempest III extra swing come into play?

Nay, with the new changes standing still and swinging is the best way.
As you have

Swing 1:
Main hand
Offhand

Swing 2:
Main hand
Offhand

Swing 3:
Main hand
Offhand
IF STWF Main hand

Swing 4:
Main hand
Offhand
Offhand

[Yargore]

Yargore,

With the exra offhand attack, it seems like GTwF DPS is even better by movng after the second attack to reset the chain, since we now get 4 attacks for the first two swings.

Am I understanding this correctly?

And when does the Tempest III extra swing come into play?

No, its better to do the whole sequence.

With Gtwf you get one main hand and one off hand on swing 1, 2 and 3 and one main hand and two offhand on swing 4.
So if you move you lose the extra attack on swing 4.
Tempest adds a main hand attack on swing 3 so if you move after the second attack you lose a main and offhand if you got tempest III.

[cdbd3rd]

from my understanding TWF is taking a serious DPS gimpage from losing attacks....

from what i have actualy seen in game my dual weilding favored soul lv 8 has lost ALOT of attack speed dual weilding which leads to sucky dps!

my BIG question if im right about it is...... are TWF toons even feasable now as big DPS toons with the decrease in attackspeed?

Yeah, as I mentioned elsewhere, my first trip back in I was gulping haste pots thinking I'd gotten hit with a Slow spell.
(lvl 6 FvS)

Dunno. Going to let it steep a while and see what comes of it. Slow motion swinging is not pleasant at this point.

[Yargore]

How was THF always better than TwF?

He don't know what he is talking about.

[maddmatt70]

The twf attack style is alot more like the old days mod 1-3 for twf. Back then twf melee rarely had spring attack and the mobs were harder to hit so DDO twf was about rushing right up to a mob and then attacking in a stationary position. This is what twf melee is again going to be alot of moving to a spot and spamming attacks. Dealing with moving mobs will be definitely more annoying, but you can use terrain, other players, tactics(stunning blow for instance), etc to compensate.

[EKKM]

umm, yeah, duh?
THF is and has always been way better than TWF, if you want to TWF you NEED another source of damage that adds a flat rate on every hit.

Repeat after me: DDo is not PnP, DDO is not PnP, DDO is not PnP

In DDO TWf is superior to THF due to attack speed, insane ability scores and special attack implementation. Also, the -2 to hit doesn't mean squat in DDO as you can hit almost everything with a 2. THF's main advantage, power attack, is capped at 5 as well.

[Roman]

Yargore, thank you, that was a very clear explanation.

The twf attack style is alot more like the old days mod 1-3 for twf. Back then twf melee rarely had spring attack and the mobs were harder to hit so DDO twf was about rushing right up to a mob and then attacking in a stationary position. This is what twf melee is again going to be alot of moving to a spot and spamming attacks. Dealing with moving mobs will be definitely more annoying, but you can use terrain, other players, tactics(stunning blow for instance), etc to compensate.

This actually makes tumbling worthwhile again. and like you said, stunning blow and even paralyzer have even greater value now.

[Vivanto]

ppl wont even fight non hasted after this.

Why, you did fight non-hasted earlier?

[bobbryan2]

This actually makes tumbling worthwhile again. and like you said, stunning blow and even paralyzer have even greater value now.

Not sure I agree with your conclusion.

[Roman]

Tempest III seems to be a huge advantage now. With the new stand and deliver autoattack approach to combat, what deep multiclass combination can possibly match the extra attack from Tempest III that will yield an extra 30-150+ dmg per round?

Seems like TwF without 18 ranger is a bit gimp now.