Why shold arcane melee exist other then for soloing purposes?

[maddmatt70]

So they have something to do in between Haste and Fog.

Well the verdict is still out on casters as they get to 20 but I have seen some spells work well in shavarath for instance irresistable dance and web and also flesh to stone is excellent in a variety of situations. I am really interested to see the topflight wizards in action because they now have the highest dcs as they try to figure out what spells work, their feat selection, and how to cast the spells. In the raid debuffs also are very nice especially on parts 1 and 3.

[Aspenor]

Well, since you asked: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=201038

[Velexia]

one ranged ranger
No DPS to speak of.

I have a small qualm with this statement. My level 13 Arcane Archer (Ranger) kicks some SERIOUS tail. 62/90 kills in Relics today. The next highest kill count was about 8 (I think there may have been one with 13). There were 3-4 other party members, all of them were Fighters and Paladins I believe? Maybe 1 melee Ranger. Maybe my DPS is only uber when I am multishotting (at which point it makes eyes bulge out of their sockets) but as far as killing power, and damage per heal, she's amazing. She probably could have solo'd the quest without a hitch.

Ranged Ranger doesn't mean no DPS if built properly, is my point =)

[spifflove]

I have a small qualm with this statement. My level 13 Arcane Archer (Ranger) kicks some SERIOUS tail. 62/90 kills in Relics today. The next highest kill count was about 8. There were 3 other party members, all of them were Fighters and Paladins I believe? Maybe 1 melee Ranger. Maybe my DPS is only uber when I am multishotting (at which point it makes eyes bulge out of their sockets) but as far as killing power, and damage per heal, she's amazing. She probably could have solo'd the quest without a hitch.

Ranged Ranger doesn't mean no DPS if built properly, is my point =)

Did I jump to a different thread by accident?

[Xyfiel]

Hmm, I change items around after initial buffing and am missing a few upgrades but the basics are here for my main.
http://my.ddo.com/character/thelanis/xyfiel/
I can umd anything, twf anything(gtwf at 20), nuke anything, 32 int with shroud weapon can cast non sr spells, buff party, and trapsmith. I am a jack of all trades, and I play it well. Being in Impaqts guild, this is one of the builds he was referring to. I have played this char as a main since IWD II, I know how to play it.

[spifflove]

Hmm, I change items around after initial buffing and am missing a few upgrades but the basics are here for my main.
http://my.ddo.com/character/thelanis/xyfiel/
I can umd anything, twf anything(gtwf at 20), nuke anything, 32 int with shroud weapon can cast non sr spells, buff party, and trapsmith. I am a jack of all trades, and I play it well. Being in Impaqts guild, this is one of the builds he was referring to. I have played this char as a main since IWD II, I know how to play it.

*eaten by the cube*

[Talon_Moonshadow]

What enhancements don't they get?

Ftr/Brb Str enhancements.

Pal smite enhancements.

Brb Rage enhancements.

The combat PREs. Tempest etc.

You could add fighter feats into the mix.

Things like that.

I've seen some very good melee casters, but DDO's system doesn't support it well IMO.

Not that you can't make it work well.
This game is certaily flexible enough to make some unusual builds still work well.

But it's not really written into the game IMO.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I have a small qualm with this statement. My level 13 Arcane Archer (Ranger) kicks some SERIOUS tail. 62/90 kills in Relics today. The next highest kill count was about 8 (I think there may have been one with 13). There were 3-4 other party members, all of them were Fighters and Paladins I believe? Maybe 1 melee Ranger. Maybe my DPS is only uber when I am multishotting (at which point it makes eyes bulge out of their sockets) but as far as killing power, and damage per heal, she's amazing. She probably could have solo'd the quest without a hitch.

Ranged Ranger doesn't mean no DPS if built properly, is my point =)

I meant the whole party's DPS, not specifically the Rgr's.

Actually I am a big fan of Ranged combat, but in general a group like I mentioned is very lacking in DPS.

My Brd used her bow quite a bit too in that group. Figured it made more sense since it supported the Rgr's efforts more that way. But mostly it was the overwealming CC of the group that made things so easy for us.

[Nemonon]

My wizard has max intelligence and will be a pure wizard at lvl 20 and still mellees very well. Got 85 kills melleing in Bastion our first time in. He's pretty geared out though. The only real downside is that i have to switch between a MinII Great axe and his exeptional int item when i insta-kill. whoop do doo. He is of course a member of the master race however. Warforged.

[kingfisher]

mm70 usually your posts make sense to me but if you believe this particular post i feel sorry for you. you should know that its the player whom you avoid, not the build. besides all of those builds are useful and more importantly fun. lighten up bro its just a game.

[sirgog]

There are very, very few encounters in this game where high DPS is needed. The main ones that comes to mind aren't exactly endgame content, it's running undergeared lowbie runs of Trial by Fire or Cursed Crypt, where you encounter bosses with serious regeneration. (Note - I haven't made a serious attempt at Tower of Despair yet, made one attempt and wiped in part 2, so if part 3 has a DPS race then this changes things)


Sor'jek is the only boss close to endgame where DPS is important (Arraetrikos part 5 maybe) as mechanics of the fight make it get harder over time (Sor'jek spawns mephits on set timers, Shroud 5 has bladestorms intensify over time). Particularly weak groups unable to beat A New Invasion's boss fight via coordinated movement may also treat it as a DPS race. But that's the only times that high DPS will help turn a failed run into a completion.


What a melee arcane brings to the group is a series of abilities to recover when things go wrong. When a horrendous lagspike hits in Shroud part 4 and most of the party dies during the first blades with Harry at 8%, a melee arcane with 220 DPS is a far better sole survivor than a Kensai with 460 DPS, as they may be able to finish off Harry with noone healing them. Plus, that same melee arcane can cast all the fogs you want in the encounter, and can fight in a firewall on the rare occasions that mobs are not immune to fire.


If you really believe DPS trumps everything else, tell me which you'd prefer in your group - the two-weapon fighter that started with 16 Str and 14 Con, or the same build with 18 Str and 8 Con.

[AnderlornLOTR]

The other part of a good multi-class build (which I think DDO is more prejudiced against than PnP), is good dice rolls. I have gone through quests at various levels and disabled every trap and then again on the same level and same quest and fudge the traps royally.

I love it too when when I roll a 2,3,4,5, and 8 in row for UMD. Shoot I am not even that unlucky in PnP!

There are really good multi-class builds in PnP, that would knock the socks off any single class character.

[arcticwolf666]

The game simply isnt about being the best at everything for everyone.

Some folks just like to have fun.

I know some excellent melee/Arcane combos. They play their character well and are an asset to the groups they play in.

I also know some that suck.

too many people play with the "If ya ain't First, yer Last" mentality....

Well you know, 2nd place is the first loser lmao J/K hehe. I have a 1ftr 4 sorc that is a blast to play.

[InvadeNormandy]

I'm aiming for 6 fighter/14 wizard so I can dip a little kensai in there to benfeit my melee damage and get improved crit range. That and save or dies are moot against the REALLY tough enemies/bosses. and if I run out of SP I'd feel like a goon if I were pure caster.

Empower/Maximized magic still hurts even if I'm missing a single extra damage die across the board on each spell. =) And spell pen and a few spell focuses overcome a little bit of that caster level woes.

I do blame turbine a bit for implementing utterly obscure prestiges (such as the anti magic barbarian) but flubbing completely on the ones alot of people have played or remember (eldritch knight)

[Slugitt]

Curious? Why do you think casters have to insta kill? Lots of buffs they can take over so pure casters have more sp's to nuke! AOE spells that slow haste (yes shorter length) but u can recast again saves sp for pure casters. You getting my point, or you afraid to look?

[weslynks]

When I first started playing DDO, I attempted to make a Rogue / Wizard that would max out on UMD and all the wand and force enchantments I could. The thought came from reaching the end of STK and watching the melee's shield wall, the Arcane caster magic missile, the healer heal, and the rogue sit on his thumbs.

So, I rolled and spent 13 levels trying to be the best trapsmith, modest DPS, and "hey, do you need someone to cast jump on you for VoN 4 because nobody else thought to memorize it" character I could.

Then, on my first run though Hiding in Plain Sight, a zerger got upset because I didn't find a trap in the two second grace period he'd given me to find it, ran ahead, got killed, named me gimp, dropped the group. We finished the quest, and I did something that I often wish I hadn't. I started reading the forums, and learned all about how he was right to complain. A 7/6 Rogue Wizard had no place in DDO.

Looking at the thought that I'd just wasted three months of my life, I stopped playing and didn't start again until a month ago.

Sob story aside, I'd argue that uncommon class combination have a value, if for nothing else, than to keep things interesting. Honestly, I think the constant one-up-manship demand for high DPS is a symptom of a problem. Boredom. It's a statement of a "finish this quest as quickly and easily as I can because I'm sick of running it" state of mind that really only promotes more boredom. Through a few creative members into a party or non-Monster builds, and all of a sudden the rules for completing a quest change. Strategies change. And Kyber forbid, we have to think our way through quests rather than run by rote. Seriously, how many times can a person run Shroud before it becomes the same old grind that any other MMO offers?

I would seriously encourage new players to level and play a character rather than a build. Right now we call them "fun" builds and speak like "fun" is bad thing. I think the game loses something when that's the predominate mentality.

[Creeper]

Then, on my first run though Hiding in Plain Sight, a zerger got upset because I didn't find a trap in the two second grace period he'd given me to find it, ran ahead, got killed, named me gimp, dropped the group. We finished the quest, and I did something that I often wish I hadn't. I started reading the forums, and learned all about how he was right to complain. A 7/6 Rogue Wizard had no place in DDO.

Multiclassing a rogue with a wizard shouldn't dramatically affect your trap skills. The only way it could is if you had a low INT or planned on taking the mechanic line. Your reflex save will suffer and you probaly won't go rogue enough to pick up imp evasion, as far as trap skills though, should not matter.

[Monkey_Archer]

First off, i have never even seen any of the builds you list in game (perhaps they are just forum concepts?) besides the 16 sorc/2monk/2pali build, which is a very effective build when played right...

Second, your assumption that battle arcanes do 50% dps and cant CC is wrong.

I have 2 battle arcane builds (in my signature). One does have about 50% dps, but has max intel and can CC just as well as any pure casters (exept for wizards with the capstone). The other has about 80-90% of the dps of a Monster build, and on par with most other dps builds.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

And the number one reason Why arcane melee exist other then for soloing purposes is.

You can't tell me how to play!

/signed

I've seen bad battle mages, just like bad battle clerics, just like bad fighters, its all in the build and how its played. And if they are having fun and contributing good on them.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

When I first started playing DDO, I attempted to make a Rogue / Wizard that would max out on UMD and all the wand and force enchantments I could. The thought came from reaching the end of STK and watching the melee's shield wall, the Arcane caster magic missile, the healer heal, and the rogue sit on his thumbs.

So, I rolled and spent 13 levels trying to be the best trapsmith, modest DPS, and "hey, do you need someone to cast jump on you for VoN 4 because nobody else thought to memorize it" character I could.

Then, on my first run though Hiding in Plain Sight, a zerger got upset because I didn't find a trap in the two second grace period he'd given me to find it, ran ahead, got killed, named me gimp, dropped the group. We finished the quest, and I did something that I often wish I hadn't. I started reading the forums, and learned all about how he was right to complain. A 7/6 Rogue Wizard had no place in DDO.

Looking at the thought that I'd just wasted three months of my life, I stopped playing and didn't start again until a month ago.

Sob story aside, I'd argue that uncommon class combination have a value, if for nothing else, than to keep things interesting. Honestly, I think the constant one-up-manship demand for high DPS is a symptom of a problem. Boredom. It's a statement of a "finish this quest as quickly and easily as I can because I'm sick of running it" state of mind that really only promotes more boredom. Through a few creative members into a party or non-Monster builds, and all of a sudden the rules for completing a quest change. Strategies change. And Kyber forbid, we have to think our way through quests rather than run by rote. Seriously, how many times can a person run Shroud before it becomes the same old grind that any other MMO offers?

I would seriously encourage new players to level and play a character rather than a build. Right now we call them "fun" builds and speak like "fun" is bad thing. I think the game loses something when that's the predominate mentality.

What server do you play on?

I need to group with more people like you. Seriously.