Eladrin; Why, why add caster sets inferior to and nonstacking with basic lore items??

[Auran82]

The only real issue I have with the rings is not their usefullness (they are nice for adding extra stats on, pity about the healing amp and +4 AC, Gtr Devotion VIII is nice too, does that mean the cold recipe will give Gtr Glaciation VIII?) but just how we were told "OMG MORE THAN 30 MORE RAID ITEMS IN THE MOD 9 RAID, NOT COUNTING TOMES!!!!11!!" only to find out the items were all pretty much identical in creation (+6 stat for class, +1 exc related stat for class, Ability to craft using a 18month old system onto the rings, for the most part, slight changes)

Would have been nice to have some more special raid items like in past raids, though I know many of them sucked, there were still some nicely designed ones, hell, make say 12 items, then give them the ability to drop on say 3 different slots, to give more customisation for characters.

[tinyelvis]

I have the water set. Here is what I noticed.

When equipping you get this message,

This set item bonus will grant your cold spells a +5% chance to critical hit. Cold spell critical damage is increased by adding 0.50 to the spell critical damage multiplier.

No mention of not stacking with other items. So at the very least this text may be wrong. When you equip a lore item for example you get this message,

Cold spells have a +9% chance to critical hit. Cold spell critical damage is increased by adding 0.50 to the spell critical damage multiplier. This effect does not stack with other item effects or potions.

Now from the wording of this item you would probably assume that it does not stack with the Water Sevant I set in the same way that superior potency VI does not stack with the Glacial assault set which is worded like this,

This set item bonus will increase the damage of your 8th level and lower cold spells by 50%.

So, the question is, does the set function to modify your cold spells when not using a better lore item? I have run some tests, however, it is pretty tough to figure this question out. Essentially, you need to accumulate data from hundreds or thousands of crit results. I have tried to collect some data, but no where near enough to be convince of whether it is working.

If it does in fact work but not stack with lore item then, this is the question. Is the +6 charisma stat bonus, the +1 wisdom exceptional bonus, and a bonus equivalent to a tier 2 or 3 shroud type effect worth two item spots? Maybe if you can put some Ice lore on the ring with the shroud type update and have it add?

Anyone know if you can add superior lore to these rings and get an addative effect? It certainly would be cool if you could and would open a lot of possibilities.

[Junts]

I have the water set. Here is what I noticed.

When equipping you get this message,

This set item bonus will grant your cold spells a +5% chance to critical hit. Cold spell critical damage is increased by adding 0.50 to the spell critical damage multiplier.

No mention of not stacking with other items. So at the very least this text may be wrong. When you equip a lore item for example you get this message,

Cold spells have a +9% chance to critical hit. Cold spell critical damage is increased by adding 0.50 to the spell critical damage multiplier. This effect does not stack with other item effects or potions.

Now from the wording of this item you would probably assume that it does not stack with the Water Sevant I set in the same way that superior potency VI does not stack with the Glacial assault set which is worded like this,

This set item bonus will increase the damage of your 8th level and lower cold spells by 50%.

So, the question is, does the set function to modify your cold spells when not using a better lore item? I have run some tests, however, it is pretty tough to figure this question out. Essentially, you need to accumulate data from hundreds or thousands of crit results. I have tried to collect some data, but no where near enough to be convince of whether it is working.

If it does in fact work but not stack with lore item then, this is the question. Is the +6 charisma stat bonus, the +1 wisdom exceptional bonus, and a bonus equivalent to a tier 2 or 3 shroud type effect worth two item spots? Maybe if you can put some Ice lore on the ring with the shroud type update and have it add?

Anyone know if you can add superior lore to these rings and get an addative effect?

the rings take weapon effects; you wouldnt be adding lore, but greater glaciation 8

so yes, the belts are worthless other than as clickies, the rings can be worthwhile

[tinyelvis]

The designers have stated that the new loot has its own table separate from the shroud list. For example, you can get a +2 stat bonus instead of the normal +1. However, the recipe will be unknown in this case.

However, failing this I would have to agree with your comment.

[Junts]

The designers have stated that the new loot has its own table separate from the shroud list. For example, you can get a +2 stat bonus instead of the normal +1. However, the recipe will be unknown in this case.

However, failing this I would have to agree with your comment.

They have all been tested; ethereal dominion produces greater devotion/glaciation/etc viii, which is differnt from shroud as shroud produces greater 6 on those tiers.

[Shade]

Eladrin really needs to answer this one..

100 years later and the sets are still useless

[edaciousx]

With greater arcane lore and archmagi set you get the crit chance from greater arcane lore and the multiplier from the set for major arcane lore. It increases your multiplier.

[shagath]

With greater arcane lore and archmagi set you get the crit chance from greater arcane lore and the multiplier from the set for major arcane lore. It increases your multiplier.

Heard this before but are you absolutely certain with it? I would love if it would work like that. Don't have any set rings yet to try out myself.

[edaciousx]

Heard this before but are you absolutely certain with it? I would love if it would work like that. Don't have any set rings yet to try out myself.

100% without a doubt certain. I have tested EXTENSIVELY. I crit blade barriers for 625ish. Cometfalls for 900. No eardweller.

[tinyelvis]

100% without a doubt certain. I have tested EXTENSIVELY. I crit blade barriers for 625ish. Cometfalls for 900. No eardweller.

I really don't think this was ever a point of contention. I don't know of anyone who claimed that these items canceled effects from other items. The only issue people ever had was that of not stacking.

For example, you can wear blue scale robe and carry a max ice lore item. The effects don't stack but the higher effects from both items will be in effect. This is not Earth shattering news.

[Rice]

I think there is an underlying issue that needs to be acknowledged and addressed to make sure future mistakes like this aren't made. The issue is that there simply aren't enough variable stats that are useful for a caster when compared to the number of slots of gear and the amount of stats that can be on each piece of gear.

Let's list off the required, useful stats:

Potency
Lore
Archmagi
Penetration

Only 4. You can get all of these on 2-3 items.

So basically, what will happen is, Turbine will need to come out with even better loot in the future (because of MMO progression), and there will be an obscene amount of stat overlap so that it will render a lot of gear useless. In one year from now, a piece of gear with Archmagi, Penetration 8/9, and Superior Potency 8 will not be out of the question. You could now just wear that one piece of gear and be completely naked otherwise (barring heavy fort of course) and still be at near 100% efficiency compared to wearing your entire set of gear.

The solution is to make these stack while nerfing the individual contribution. IE, a superior potency item will only give 20% more damage but can stack up to 50%, so that 3 items with superior potency is needed for maximum damage, while having 2 superior potency items is still good. Otherwise, gear progression will simply cause so much stat overlap to the point of insanity. We're already seeing a lot of stat overlap already of course, but not fixing this system will only make it worse.

[tinyelvis]

I think there is an underlying issue that needs to be acknowledged and addressed to make sure future mistakes like this aren't made. The issue is that there simply aren't enough variable stats that are useful for a caster when compared to the number of slots of gear and the amount of stats that can be on each piece of gear.

Let's list off the required, useful stats:

Potency
Lore
Archmagi
Penetration

Only 4. You can get all of these on 2-3 items.

So basically, what will happen is, Turbine will need to come out with even better loot in the future (because of MMO progression), and there will be an obscene amount of stat overlap so that it will render a lot of gear useless. In one year from now, a piece of gear with Archmagi, Penetration 8/9, and Superior Potency 8 will not be out of the question. You could now just wear that one piece of gear and be completely naked otherwise (barring heavy fort of course) and still be at near 100% efficiency compared to wearing your entire set of gear.

The solution is to make these stack while nerfing the individual contribution. IE, a superior potency item will only give 20% more damage but can stack up to 50%, so that 3 items with superior potency is needed for maximum damage, while having 2 superior potency items is still good. Otherwise, gear progression will simply cause so much stat overlap to the point of insanity. We're already seeing a lot of stat overlap already of course, but not fixing this system will only make it worse.

I think maybe you have taken too many sips from the loony fountain. This comment shows a complete lack of knowledge concerning end game items and their historic availability to arcane casters. Not to mention a poor to almost complete lack of understanding of equipment used/needed by arcane casters. I don't believe you even bothered to gain the most minimal understanding of the issue by taking the time to read any of the thread.

Unlike other class items, arcane item progression has generally stagnated at 16th level or less. This thread was about supposedly new items that don't stack with older items and have poorer effective bonuses or just plain don't work.

[tinyelvis]

I reset my enhancements to zero recently and went into Kobold Assault with nothing on. I never achieved a crit with my polar ray in over 100 shots (100 pts average damage). I then re entered with ice set on and was achieving crits at least once in 20 shots for double damage. So, in my mind this reconfirms that the set bonuses have not been shut off. Though, they still are pretty worthless since you use two items to get the same bonus as one much lower level item that requires no grind. Until we can stack these items or place an effect like greater ice lore on the ring this will effectively shelve these items. The clickies obviously are useful.

[Rice]

I think maybe you have taken too many sips from the loony fountain. This comment shows a complete lack of knowledge concerning end game items and their historic availability to arcane casters. Not to mention a poor to almost complete lack of understanding of equipment used/needed by arcane casters. I don't believe you even bothered to gain the most minimal understanding of the issue by taking the time to read any of the thread.

Unlike other class items, arcane item progression has generally stagnated at 16th level or less. This thread was about supposedly new items that don't stack with older items and have poorer effective bonuses or just plain don't work.

I think you're the loony one here to be honest. I could have explained my theory in greater detail but chose to shorten it for time's sake. The idea is still there, however, and it IS correct. I am talking about the UNDERLYING issue, not just the issue that you SEE. The underlying issue is that non-stacking itemization + lots of slots = redundancy and horrible gear progression.

But hey, just keep up with the ad hominem attacks and never actually make a proper response to the post to prove how right you are

Unlike other class items, arcane item progression has generally stagnated at 16th level or less. This thread was about supposedly new items that don't stack with older items and have poorer effective bonuses or just plain don't work.

Edit: Well hey, look at that, you actually agree with me but are too dense to see that we're both on the same page except that I'm the one offering a reasonable solution while you're the one spewing insults.

[bobbryan2]

ToD loot should never have been made without half the pre even in the game.

I mean... there's still not any loot for FvS's.

[Aspenor]

I think you're the loony one here to be honest. I could have explained my theory in greater detail but chose to shorten it for time's sake. The idea is still there, however, and it IS correct. I am talking about the UNDERLYING issue, not just the issue that you SEE. The underlying issue is that non-stacking itemization + lots of slots = redundancy and horrible gear progression.

But hey, just keep up with the ad hominem attacks and never actually make a proper response to the post to prove how right you are



Edit: Well hey, look at that, you actually agree with me but are too dense to see that we're both on the same page except that I'm the one offering a reasonable solution while you're the one spewing insults.

None of your idea makes any sense, nor would it be good for the game. Just FYI.

[tinyelvis]

...... a superior potency item will only give 20% more damage but can stack up to 50%, so that 3 items with superior potency is needed for maximum damage, while having 2 superior potency items is still good. ..........

Comments like this show you have no idea what you are commenting about. End game currently space is a premium. There is no room for current items let alone adding more. The dire need is to combine item effects, not the other way around. Not to mention there is no extra space in the pack to carry even a few more items let alone 3 times more. Because you have no experience with this game you have no idea how completely goofy your suggestion sounds.

Another example,... to suggest to nerf a superior potency item to an extent that 3 instead of one need be carried is completely ludicrous. Not only are we talking a level 16 item (as opposed to a 20th or epic item), but since often clickies can can do the job and do it better, lots of folks have dispensed with carrying even the typical superior potency VI item in order to free up a spot. If any fool were to cut its effect in 1/3, then no one would carry the thing(s).

Suggesting that

a piece of gear with Archmagi, Penetration 8/9, and Superior Potency 8 will not be out of the question.

shows how little experience you really have with this game. It would be wonderful if this item set could be available, but all past history and all current item and item progression suggests that it will never happen, let alone occur within a year.

Take your goofy other MMO experience back to your goofy other game.

[Ganak]

Here's the answer:

The set bonus's are not finished until the PrC's up to tier 3 are added.

For example, PrC's that have 3 tiers--Kensei, Assassin, KotC, Defender, etc--have a tier 3 specific bonus.

PrC's without a tier 3 currently, or no PrC at all in game like sorc, do not have a tier 3 only ability on their ToD sets.

However, when the tier 3 of each PrC is added, the set bonus on the tod combo will be added. This was confirmed by a dev post some time back.

For example, when PaleMaster was released, the set bonus upgraded and a tier 3 bonus was added to the set.



As such, it is too early to judge until these PrC's are added up to tier 3.

As it stands now, there is a sizeable value difference in the equipment.

[Angelus_dead]

Here's the answer:

The set bonus's are not finished until the PrC's up to tier 3 are added.

No, that just doesn't fit as an answer.

The Ravager set bonus: It works great, and there's no prestige specialty.
The Pale Master set bonus: It's terrible, and the prestige specialty is working at tier 3.

[tinyelvis]

Here's the answer:

The set bonus's are not finished until the PrC's up to tier 3 are added.

For example, PrC's that have 3 tiers--Kensei, Assassin, KotC, Defender, etc--have a tier 3 specific bonus.

PrC's without a tier 3 currently, or no PrC at all in game like sorc, do not have a tier 3 only ability on their ToD sets.

However, when the tier 3 of each PrC is added, the set bonus on the tod combo will be added. This was confirmed by a dev post some time back.

For example, when PaleMaster was released, the set bonus upgraded and a tier 3 bonus was added to the set.



As such, it is too early to judge until these PrC's are added up to tier 3.

As it stands now, there is a sizeable value difference in the equipment.

I know this is a common claim, but these items have been out over a year (if you include beta) and there has never been a response to complaints associated with their lameness or reliable comments suggesting that something good is on the way. Here we are on the verge of Mod 5 now and Junts original complaint

Why, why add caster sets inferior to and nonstacking with basic lore items?

is still valid and unanswered.