Mod9 Max DPS THF Build (WF Frenzied Berserker)

[Logic]

Nice stuning blow DC, wow

[BlackSteel]

I'm lvl 12 on my 2nd TR and it's finally getting a little fun with an increased crit multiplier and some decent GS gear. Lastly, would you resort to using GS Earthgrab weapons on epic or a weighted 5% maul or just rely on your dps item and hope to stun without any earthgrab/weighted?

earthgrab seems effective on SOME mobs; but with the str scores and feat, you're much better off using the weighted weapon. The only time you might want to use DPS weapons on the trash is if you're grouped with a great caster and another person dedicated to do nothing but stun. Alot of the mobs can be held for autocrits, and it doesnt take 3 melee to stun the one mob that made his save.

If the caster doesnt have a great DC tho, you might want to use the weighted weapon anyway. But it is pretty pointless when every group of mobs you walk up to gets held. Altho a sprint boost and a quick jump + stunning blow to a beholder is great, use the weighted weapon to get a 95% stun chance on epic beholders. Depending on the quest, some mobs save agaisnt hold better than others (or are flat out immune b/c of race) and in those cases you'll want to use weighted.

[Shade]

Yea an earthgrab greataxe certainly has it's use. Just depends on the situation.

It's best used versus monsters with:
A low reflex save
A high fort save so there otherwise difficult to stun with a maul
No acid resistance so the weapon does superior DPS to the maul (The earth axe should be acid/acidburst/acidblast, while an upgraded maul tends to be at least Icy Burst)

Thats kind of a rare situation tho, since like I said a maxxed Barbarian can stun nearly everything quite effectively.. But I did find 1 place where it was superior effective:
VoN4/5 Epic..
Warforged - Super high fort saves, low reflex (except ranger types who have ok reflex)
25% fort, so even stunned a weighted maul often doesn;t kill them in the 6 second limit
No acid resistance

Earthgrab also last 8 seconds vs 6 on stun.. So for the warforged, 1 earthgrab was generally enough to kill 1. But 1 stun/weighted proc with maul out was not..

In von5 we had several people use the weapons and guards, everthing got earthgrabbed fast, it was very effective in a raidgroup.

Also in VoN5 it worked great on the undead and golems, which are just immune to stun.

So yea I like to carry both around, they each have a purpose.

[Ybbald]

Wait. Khopesh is single handed which means you need to dual wield it, right? So the TWF line costs 17 dex which lowers your starting str and con and therefore DPS. And then you don't get glancing blows

[BlackSteel]

Puff the magic dragon, lived by the sea

[Ybbald]

What? X_X

[lolwatboomer]

Puff the magic dragon, lived by the sea

disregard the naysayers, that song is totally about getting high

[Logic]

Yea an earthgrab greataxe certainly has it's use. Just depends on the situation.

It's best used versus monsters with:
A low reflex save
A high fort save so there otherwise difficult to stun with a maul
No acid resistance so the weapon does superior DPS to the maul (The earth axe should be acid/acidburst/acidblast, while an upgraded maul tends to be at least Icy Burst)

Thats kind of a rare situation tho, since like I said a maxxed Barbarian can stun nearly everything quite effectively.. But I did find 1 place where it was superior effective:
VoN4/5 Epic..
Warforged - Super high fort saves, low reflex (except ranger types who have ok reflex)
25% fort, so even stunned a weighted maul often doesn;t kill them in the 6 second limit
No acid resistance

Earthgrab also last 8 seconds vs 6 on stun.. So for the warforged, 1 earthgrab was generally enough to kill 1. But 1 stun/weighted proc with maul out was not..

In von5 we had several people use the weapons and guards, everthing got earthgrabbed fast, it was very effective in a raidgroup.

Also in VoN5 it worked great on the undead and golems, which are just immune to stun.

So yea I like to carry both around, they each have a purpose.

Ah I see. So GS freezing ice weps completely useless then with their DC 35 fort save?

[lolwatboomer]

Ah I see. So GS freezing ice weps completely useless then with their DC 35 fort save?

I wouldn't say "completely useless", but in terms of something like elite Amrath or epic quests they definitely wouldn't be viable. DC 35 forty save would work on trash mobs in not so tough quests though.

[Shade]

Ah I see. So GS freezing ice weps completely useless then with their DC 35 fort save?

Not entirely.

If you used it on something weak to ice, it could be slightly better then earthgrab. Perhaps say fire elementals, they don't have particularly high fort saves I dont think (hard to say for sure for the epic ones.. I can't stun them anyways, tho my sorc has no trouble insta-killing elite versions)

Also gianthold tor will have lots of fire giants weak to ice, so they may work nice for them... Ofcourse an icy burst weighted maul will generally work better.. But if someone else is already handling the stuns, may not be a bad idea.

If it was cheaper to make i'd probalby have one. But a rarely useful double shard weapon, meh. Triple Ice is much cheaper and also a good choice for fire monsters (crushing wave guard, doesn't do much dmg, but does proc often and works vs nearly everything)

[Crann]

Recently got to 12th level with this build, and was pretty shocked with the damage increase. Thanks for the build, its becoming my favorite to play.

I have 3 questions concerning it, and general barbarian playstyle:

1. What is the twitch method discussed earlier in this thread? I read through the posts, but didn't come out if it with a clear picture of the twitch method of attack, and its current usefullness.

2. Is the WF Greater Weapon Aptitude feat still broken, as previously discussed? I had LR'ed my barb into this build at lev 11, and added the THF feat. Then with level 12, I took ITHF. I also have the WF Enhancement, being of the understanding that along with frenzied beserker...they all stack together to increase glancing blows/procs. I have noticed a huge increased to the damage being done to the non-targetted enemies, and really don't know if any of that increase is due to the WF enhancement. Short of resetting my enhancements and testing this myself, I would rely on your experience with WF and non-WF barbaians.

3. Now that I am doing alot of damage to multiple enemies at a time, the overhead damage numbers keep rolling until well after the battle is over. When I do the rares in the Vale, I gather alot of spiders together, then swing on them all at once. After the battle is over......for about ten seconds, I still have the damage numbers flying overhead. Is there some UI selection I can make...short of turning the overhead numbers off...that will eliminate this delay?

[lolwatboomer]

Recently got to 12th level with this build, and was pretty shocked with the damage increase. Thanks for the build, its becoming my favorite to play.

I have 3 questions concerning it, and general barbarian playstyle:

1. What is the twitch method discussed earlier in this thread? I read through the posts, but didn't come out if it with a clear picture of the twitch method of attack, and its current usefullness.

2. Is the WF Greater Weapon Aptitude feat still broken, as previously discussed? I had LR'ed my barb into this build at lev 11, and added the THF feat. Then with level 12, I took ITHF. I also have the WF Enhancement, being of the understanding that along with frenzied beserker...they all stack together to increase glancing blows/procs. I have noticed a huge increased to the damage being done to the non-targetted enemies, and really don't know if any of that increase is due to the WF enhancement. Short of resetting my enhancements and testing this myself, I would rely on your experience with WF and non-WF barbaians.

3. Now that I am doing alot of damage to multiple enemies at a time, the overhead damage numbers keep rolling until well after the battle is over. When I do the rares in the Vale, I gather alot of spiders together, then swing on them all at once. After the battle is over......for about ten seconds, I still have the damage numbers flying overhead. Is there some UI selection I can make...short of turning the overhead numbers off...that will eliminate this delay?

1. It's a method of interrupting your attack animations to dramatically increase your number of swings, and the implication is that you get a decrease in glancing blows. Here's a video by Shade: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JXpNOfWXDU

2. WF Great Weapon Aptitude is still broken. If you are dead-set on taking it, don't take any more than two of the enhancements... but really you're better off just ditching it entirely.

3. That's DPS lag for ya... no way of dealing with it.

[Ybbald]

So twitching is
click
step
repeat

instead of
click
hold

The stepping ending the animation so you start a new attack sooner?

[lolwatboomer]

So twitching is
click
step
repeat

instead of
click
hold

The stepping ending the animation so you start a new attack sooner?

you can click and hold, but yes the stepping should end the animation

[Logic]

2. WF Great Weapon Aptitude is still broken. If you are dead-set on taking it, don't take any more than two of the enhancements... but really you're better off just ditching it entirely.

What do you mean broken? Like not working at all or just not worth the enhancement points?

[BlackSteel]

What do you mean broken? Like not working at all or just not worth the enhancement points?

both

How much is each action point worth to you in damage?

consider how many elemental dice you usually get to apply to your hits. ~3d6 give or take a 1d4 or a 1 damage force addition. (thats greensteel min 2 holy/acid with force ritual) so ~12 damage IF they dont have acid resist.

if you care about damage you'll b twitching, so only 50% glancing. so that 12 is now a 6. The 3 feats seem to give around 10% each. So we can be generous and say the aptitude line does the same. 0.6 additional damage for an action point. 0.3 dam/AP for the next rank, half that again for the final tier.

They'd have to give an outlandish % to even come close to being worth the APs (for the full line anyway) Sure you wont be completely specced for damage, but theres just too many things to take where you can fit in those AP's for better value. More health, healers friend rank 2, combat dc's.

[Logic]

both

How much is each action point worth to you in damage?

consider how many elemental dice you usually get to apply to your hits. ~3d6 give or take a 1d4 or a 1 damage force addition. (thats greensteel min 2 holy/acid with force ritual) so ~12 damage IF they dont have acid resist.

if you care about damage you'll b twitching, so only 50% glancing. so that 12 is now a 6. The 3 feats seem to give around 10% each. So we can be generous and say the aptitude line does the same. 0.6 additional damage for an action point. 0.3 dam/AP for the next rank, half that again for the final tier.

They'd have to give an outlandish % to even come close to being worth the APs (for the full line anyway) Sure you wont be completely specced for damage, but theres just too many things to take where you can fit in those AP's for better value. More health, healers friend rank 2, combat dc's.

Gotcha. Yeah I had taken all 3 tiers on my WF FvS for a brief while then dropped them because how much extra damage was it really adding?

I guess the 3 questions I have are
1: How much does each tier increase glancing blow proc %?
2: What can proc on glancing blows?
Elemental/holy/pure good (yes)
Elemental/holy/pure good bursts/blasts (?)
Force ritual (yes)
weakening (yes)
enfeebling (?)
Vorpal (?)
Smiting (?)
Weighted (?)
Paralyzing (?)
Banishing (?)
3:If you use stunning blow (or other active ability) and on a glancing blow animation attack can you proc a second stunning blow chance?

I doubt anybody knows the answers to these, but I'm curious.

[BlackSteel]

Gotcha. Yeah I had taken all 3 tiers on my WF FvS for a brief while then dropped them because how much extra damage was it really adding?

I guess the 3 questions I have are
1: How much does each tier increase glancing blow proc %

zero percent. They currently do squat . How much they re supposed to do isn't known

[ratpacker]

zero percent. They currently do squat . How much they re supposed to do isn't known

So since currently the Great weapon Aptitude is broken, what would you suggest to better spend the pts in?

I am quite surprised to see that only the 1st tier of Extra Rage is taken, how about taking 2nd or 3rd tier instead of WF great weapon apt? Or is there a particular reason why only 1st tier of Extra Rage is taken? Thought that having more rage sessions is essential for any barbarian?

BTW, great guide from Shade. I am trying one out now - just started with Veteran level 4 with a 32 pter.

[Shade]

So since currently the Great weapon Aptitude is broken, what would you suggest to better spend the pts in?

I am quite surprised to see that only the 1st tier of Extra Rage is taken, how about taking 2nd or 3rd tier instead of WF great weapon apt? Or is there a particular reason why only 1st tier of Extra Rage is taken? Thought that having more rage sessions is essential for any barbarian?

BTW, great guide from Shade. I am trying one out now - just started with Veteran level 4 with a 32 pter.

The low amount of rages kinda of matchs my endgame setup.. As I have allot of con from tomes and gear, my rages end up at like ~4min, so 4min x 7 or 8 with berserker set is usually tons. But I realise most new players won't have the same gear, so build updated.

Build was made with the assumption taht the WF enhancements would work and be worthwhile.. Updated to removed them until we can confirm they are fixxed, and instead added:
Extend IV (more bang for buck then 1 more rage)
Extra II (8 rages per day, 9 rages with Berserker Set) 9 x4 min (with optimal gear on 32pnt version) = 36 minuits per shrine, should be sufficient for the toughest of epic quests

Kinda added the costs up quickly, so if someone notices i overspent or whatever, let me know and ill check and update again/