And the Biggest Problem with PvP Is...

[ragazzomorto]

To me, it's the queuing system and UI. The ability to queue anywhere is one of the best things Champions Online does with their PvP system, and Turbine, you guys need to rip it off wholesale. It allows players to get in and get out, and quickly get back to what they were doing. Taverns are nice, but as much as they should be, they're not social areas, and people aren't going to wait around to queue for a match when they could be out actually doing something. In my opinion, that is what kills PvP in this game.

If the accessibility were there, more people would do it. I'm not a programmer, but it seems like setting up a worldwide queue system should be a relatively simple thing to do. PvP in DDO sounds fun in theory, but I have yet to actually try it because of a simple problem, and I really feel like I'm missing out on something fun.

It's sad that there are less than ten threads in the PvP board. EU is a big opportunity and I don't want a lack of PvP options to turn players away from this really cool game.

This is just my observation. Does anyone else have any ideas about how to make PvP better/more popular?

[Freeman]

The biggest problem with PvP is that they tried to fit it into a game that was not designed with it in mind. Given the huge imbalances between the classes, I don't think PvP will ever be more than a small sideline to this game.

[ragazzomorto]

I don't think that's really the best excuse, though. Each class has it's advantages, and just like in any MMO, there are some classes that are better played in PvE than PvP, but any class could be leveraged in PvP to some extent, especially if you include multiclasses, and even moreso if Turbine builds areas with each class in mind. If players wanted to PvP, they could easily come up with PvP builds for this game. It's just a matter of Turbine supporting the idea and making the content more accessible.

[Goldeneye]

PvP is really just for testing out your cool new equipment on friends!

In practicality, serious PvP matches are often frustrating because of how differently different classes can perform vs. their usefulness in quests.... though organizing small groups can be very very entertaining.

[ragazzomorto]

The idea that fighting players is frustrating or impractical shouldn't be used as an excuse. PvP is already in the game, obviously Turbine spent time putting it there, so why not do it right?

Fighting players is tougher and you have to think differently, but that doesn't mean PvP should be abandoned. PvP can and has been designed to work with all classes in mind in plenty of other MMOs, and there's no reason DDO couldn't work the same way. DDO has so much potential for variety in character builds, there's no reason players couldn't come up with plenty of effective PvP builds to fill any role.

I have fun with the PvE game as much as anyone, but isn't it at least a little frustrating to anyone else that Turbine created a PvP feature that isn't being utilized because of a simple functionality issue that could be fixed relatively easily? In Champions Online, they had worldwide queuing as soon as PvP was introduced in the closed beta, and it was a godsend. It was so great to be able to just jump in and play a couple of matches when I was bored of doing missions without having to travel to some terminal to initiate PvP content. I really think that if it was done the same way in DDO people would participate much, much more.

Not only would it be nice to have, it would be a draw for more new players, and that's what Turbine wants right now.

[Angelus_dead]

The idea that fighting players is frustrating or impractical shouldn't be used as an excuse. PvP is already in the game, obviously Turbine spent time putting it there, so why not do it right?

Look, you clearly need to investigate PVP a little more before coming up with suggestions for it.

It's already been mentioned that the game design doesn't support PVP,but maybe you don't know what that means. Pop quiz: How many level 20 rogues can my level 20 cleric defeat at once?

PvP can and has been designed to work with all classes in mind in plenty of other MMOs, and there's no reason DDO couldn't work the same way. DDO has so much potential for variety in character builds, there's no reason players couldn't come up with plenty of effective PvP builds to fill any role.

That is a theoretical possibility, but it would be a significant effort.. quite a bit more than adding a new raid, for example. And that kind of effort would form the essential core of an improved PVP experience. World queing or whatever is just a minor convenience on top of that.

Allowing faster access to matches isn't valuable if the matches aren't fun.

[Missing_Minds]

The idea that fighting players is frustrating or impractical shouldn't be used as an excuse. PvP is already in the game, obviously Turbine spent time putting it there, so why not do it right?

Turbine would have to rewrite 3.x rules to make it right aka Balanced. Fact of the matter is that the classes are not balanced. We already have people complaining that one class can do X which they can't defend against, and.. yeah. Casters are nerfed on some of their more fun spells already for PvP, then you have the tickets for griefing...

No, PvP was put in a while back because of enough complaints. This game was NEVER designed for PvP, so be greatful for what you do have currently. For now, ask for things that are within scope of the system.

1. Make them finally give you a leadership board. This was supposed to be given to you PvPers back with Mod 3. I hate PvP, but Turbine stated it back then, so I'll /sign with you guys to get it in.

2. Other styles of PvP arenas. Aka an anything goes area with no nerfs on spells, or anything would be one idea. Let the mage have their full power back at their finger tips. A spell battle areana where casters can compete, a gladiator arena where after X time mobs are thrown into the phray, or even an arena where the environment effects change around such as the ground turns to ice, fog covers the area, rocks drop from the sky, etc.

If there are glitches in the queing and such... Well, honestly, I guess the best thing to do is file bug reports on why you think the system isn't working correctly. And if you find a bug, continue after it. I mean it took months, but we were able to get them to make changes to ranged attacks 1.5 years back or so. Still trying to get more made to them. But the idea is stick with it. Why do I say stick with it? There isn't going to be budget either for a rewrite of the system (at least in the near future. The rest of the PrEs need to be finished at a minimum), but you know.. in about a year or so if you've garnered enough support, I bet it will become a lot more feasible.

[Hendrik]

The idea that fighting players is frustrating or impractical shouldn't be used as an excuse. PvP is already in the game, obviously Turbine spent time putting it there, so why not do it right?

Fighting players is tougher and you have to think differently, but that doesn't mean PvP should be abandoned. PvP can and has been designed to work with all classes in mind in plenty of other MMOs, and there's no reason DDO couldn't work the same way. DDO has so much potential for variety in character builds, there's no reason players couldn't come up with plenty of effective PvP builds to fill any role.

I have fun with the PvE game as much as anyone, but isn't it at least a little frustrating to anyone else that Turbine created a PvP feature that isn't being utilized because of a simple functionality issue that could be fixed relatively easily? In Champions Online, they had worldwide queuing as soon as PvP was introduced in the closed beta, and it was a godsend. It was so great to be able to just jump in and play a couple of matches when I was bored of doing missions without having to travel to some terminal to initiate PvP content. I really think that if it was done the same way in DDO people would participate much, much more.

Not only would it be nice to have, it would be a draw for more new players, and that's what Turbine wants right now.

Not in the least. What's hard about: Tab + Fts or FoD?

TBH, PvP is NOT the 'feature' that needs to be sold to bring in more players. DDO is better then that and does not need to scrape the bottom of the player barrel to get more froobs.

[croger1520033]

The idea that fighting players is frustrating or impractical shouldn't be used as an excuse. PvP is already in the game, obviously Turbine spent time putting it there, so why not do it right?

Fighting players is tougher and you have to think differently, but that doesn't mean PvP should be abandoned. PvP can and has been designed to work with all classes in mind in plenty of other MMOs, and there's no reason DDO couldn't work the same way. DDO has so much potential for variety in character builds, there's no reason players couldn't come up with plenty of effective PvP builds to fill any role.

I have fun with the PvE game as much as anyone, but isn't it at least a little frustrating to anyone else that Turbine created a PvP feature that isn't being utilized because of a simple functionality issue that could be fixed relatively easily? In Champions Online, they had worldwide queuing as soon as PvP was introduced in the closed beta, and it was a godsend. It was so great to be able to just jump in and play a couple of matches when I was bored of doing missions without having to travel to some terminal to initiate PvP content. I really think that if it was done the same way in DDO people would participate much, much more.

Not only would it be nice to have, it would be a draw for more new players, and that's what Turbine wants right now.

You will never win this argument If you like champions online PvP go PvP there, not here. When this game was first developed the original programmers and dev team said PvP would never be in this game for the reasons that you have refused to accept. The other thing that was also said when PvP was announced by the new team was that they would never change things to make PvP more balanced.

PvP will never be great in this game, the reason it was never supposed to be here in the first place. It was an afterthought and it is fun if you stop comparing it to Champions online PvP.

It boggles my mind why people who want to play a certain game like champions online, why they come here and try it out and like everything else better but they want one feature of the game to be exactly like the game they just left. It's like I didn't like champions online but I like DDO, but could you make DDO more like champions online?? It's like ***, why did you even bother posting.

[Velexia]

PvP is really just for testing out your cool new equipment on friends!

In practicality, serious PvP matches are often frustrating because of how differently different classes can perform vs. their usefulness in quests.... though organizing small groups can be very very entertaining.

( Like Laelyth Ka [14 Sorc 2 Pal at the time] vs everyone else.... score Laelyth 17, everyone else 0 )

[Zippo]

Plain and simple DDO wasn't built with PvP in mind nor was DnD for that matter. PvP was a mere after thought which in my opinion doesn't belong in the first place.

[Pwesiela]

PvP is really just for testing out your cool new equipment on friends!

/QFT

The biggest problem with PvP is that it's in the game in the first place.

[Velexia]

To me, it's the queuing system and UI. The ability to queue anywhere is one of the best things Champions Online does with their PvP system, and Turbine, you guys need to rip it off wholesale. It allows players to get in and get out, and quickly get back to what they were doing. Taverns are nice, but as much as they should be, they're not social areas, and people aren't going to wait around to queue for a match when they could be out actually doing something. In my opinion, that is what kills PvP in this game.

If the accessibility were there, more people would do it. I'm not a programmer, but it seems like setting up a worldwide queue system should be a relatively simple thing to do. PvP in DDO sounds fun in theory, but I have yet to actually try it because of a simple problem, and I really feel like I'm missing out on something fun.

It's sad that there are less than ten threads in the PvP board. EU is a big opportunity and I don't want a lack of PvP options to turn players away from this really cool game.

This is just my observation. Does anyone else have any ideas about how to make PvP better/more popular?

Actually, you can "queue" PVP from anywhere... That doesn't change the fact that D&D isn't well suited for it, nor does it correlate to effectiveness in quests. Just try PVP as a Rogue =)

[RomaFilth]

My persongagem stuck in the arena, someone has a solution to help me?

[Angelus_dead]

My persongagem stuck in the arena, someone has a solution to help me?

You will be out if you log out for 5 minutes and wait.

[skarwolf]

It isn't a problem but it could become one.

People don't pvp because they don't get any rewards. Plain and simple. If there was a benefit people would be pvp'n more.

Then you'd get a million rants about X class being overpowered and to nerf it. Then all these classes end up getting hit with the nerf bat to balance pvp, while people who never actually pvp are thinking *** why did I get nerfed?

[SgtSplacker]

I dont even understand why theres even an argument on wether PVP should be in game or not. The most fun I have ever had in any game has been in large scale combat. Thats keep seiges, huge battles, etc. Everyone loves this stuff, so why not put it in game? I mean haw many directions can the game go? We should have a combined queing system (combined as in all servers) and a couple capture the flag (or keep) style battlegrounds. If you dont like this then just dont que.

I'm having alot of fun with the game, and i'm really worried whats going to happen when I reach 20. I know that in WOW I really liked to take a break from instancing to run some BGs.

[sephiroth1084]

I dont even understand why theres even an argument on wether PVP should be in game or not. The most fun I have ever had in any game has been in large scale combat. Thats keep seiges, huge battles, etc. Everyone loves this stuff, so why not put it in game? I mean haw many directions can the game go? We should have a combined queing system (combined as in all servers) and a couple capture the flag (or keep) style battlegrounds. If you dont like this then just dont que.

I'm having alot of fun with the game, and i'm really worried whats going to happen when I reach 20. I know that in WOW I really liked to take a break from instancing to run some BGs.

The following is basically the reason.

It isn't a problem but it could become one.

People don't pvp because they don't get any rewards. Plain and simple. If there was a benefit people would be pvp'n more.

Then you'd get a million rants about X class being overpowered and to nerf it. Then all these classes end up getting hit with the nerf bat to balance pvp, while people who never actually pvp are thinking *** why did I get nerfed?

As I understand it, WoW made some efforts to balance classes for PvP. Whether that was just in PvP, or whether that balancing carried over into PvE, I don't know, but the risk is here is that balancing in one would lead to adjustments in the other, which really should not happen.

The problem with not making attempts to balance classes for PvP is that, currently, the classes are not even close to being balanced fairly for PvP; most melees just cannot compete with a caster (divine or arcane), and there really isn't a very good way around that. In WoW, the developers were working from a cleaner slate in terms of what each character could and should be doing, while in DDO, there is a fairly clear picture of what each character should be able to do.

How does one alter a wizard to be comparable to a fighter without dramatically altering the system?

[Angelus_dead]

As I understand it, WoW made some efforts to balance classes for PvP. Whether that was just in PvP, or whether that balancing carried over into PvE, I don't know

Oh it was far more than "some effort", and that balancing absolutely applied to all modes of the game.

[Linenoise2]

To be totally honest, I did not even know a PvP sub-forum existed. While people are debating the merits/needs of a PVP system, I am debating the merits/need of a PVP subforum. I guess that says where I stand on the whole PVP thing.

ETA: 406 total posts in this subforum and 1/3rd of those posts are in this thread. I think that says it all right there, no? :P