Discouraged.. but hopeful.

[RebelWolfe]

I've seen all the great builds listed in these pages, but there are a few problems for me.

1. I don't have access to any starting tomes.
2. I'm not likely to get access to +2 or better tomes (except the 1750 favor tome) for quite some time.
3. It's highly unlikely that I will ever have any raid loot. (that comes from my disgust with impatient pugs)

That being said, are there any suggestions for a viable build for me? I'm mostly interested in the melee side, tho I am also somewhat interested in offensive spells (namely, BB and such), with the ability to self-heal and self-buff.

Edit: I do have 32-point build available.

[wolfy42]

The warforged/greatsword route is pretty easy to play even with a 28 point build (which sounds like what you have).

It doesn't require great equipment, it is strong right from the start and you don't need any tomes etc at all.

Starting stats with an 28 point build are something like this:

Str 18 (16)
Dex 12 (04)
Con 12 (02)
Int 08 (00)
wis 06 (00)
Cha 12 (06)

All stat points into strength.

Cha is fine without tomes until much later..and by then you'll get them naturally.

You get +1 to cha at lvl 2...+2 to cha at lvl 6 and +3 to cha at lvl 10 from enhancements. That brings you all the way up to lvl 12 without needing any tomes or cha items. Even at that point if you can't get a +1 tome you can just wear a +cha trinket, cloak, helm or ring. By lvl 12 you can already get a Cha item that will max out your cha for lvl 9 spells. So no tomes needed at all.

Long term you'll want a +2 tome though so you can skip the cha item all together. With 12 base + 3 enhancement + 2 tome and +2 capstone enhancement you have a 19 cha which lets you cast all your spells with no equipment at all.

Meanwhile your feats are also pretty easy. Snag adamantium armor at 1.....at 3 I suggest toughness. At 6 THF at 9 snag ITHF (or quicken) at 12 grab the other (quicken or ITHF). At 15 you have choices....empower....improved crit slashing...power attack....lots of choices. I'll talk more about that later. At 18 you snag GTHF (you can skip this as it's not a huge advantage unlike GTWF...it mainly gives you glancing blows while moving more then anything else).

Hp are still quite decent even with the lower con...you get +2 from enhancements and snag full toughness bonuses from fvs and racial.

Saving throws are decent but not incredible...but you have WF immunities which helps as well.

Damage will be decent all the way as you level up...higher then a TWF favored soul pretty much till lvl 18 when they can get GTWF. At that point the TWF build can do more damage...but it's not a huge difference (and THF hits through DR better).

As a WF Favored soul you also get access to unlimited shield spells (not that it really helps at all with so many shield clickies out there. I have like 21 charges of shield per rest if I wanted to have em all on 1 character hehe). Ac is actually not that horrible when buffed out but your DR is better then the rest with the enhancements (maxes at 15/mithril vs 10/everything else for favored souls).

For pure melee madness I would ditch empower and grab power attack....you'll have the AB to run with power attack going...and it adds 10 damage per swing before crits...so it's worth it in my opinion. Not having empower puts a damper on your healing abilitity (and reduces your BB damage etc as well) but I think the constant extra melee damage is worth the sacrifice.

Anyway this build can easily go through the game with a fresh character on Cannith...no problem.

[cyadra]

For a melee FvS, WF sounds good in theory but really isnt. Actually a WF healer/buffer is better (especially if you have a tome) since it is built to survive.

For melee 2WF is out because of the number of feats and the high dex score you need. I went for 2HF on a human build with max str, 14 con, 10 wiz and 12 Cha and it works great. Especially if you go 2fight/18FvS which will allow for heavy armour. Make it a human for the bonus feat and go 2HF and toughness to start, then around level 7-8 go another fighter for the better 2HF and strength bonus. Melee FvS shouldn't go pure to 20 and should have lower wiz scores since you wont cast offensive spells. What you will find out is that in groups you will either be the 2nd best damage dealer that never draws aggro, the 2nd best tank in heavy armor that can heal themself, or the best healer in the group. I find myself outlasting everyone else in groups, and outdamaging everything but tempest rangers, especially when I buff myself. It only gets sweeter if I can throw down an effective BB. And oh yeah I out heal the clerics since I usually have 1.5 times the spell points they have

[wolfy42]

For a melee FvS, WF sounds good in theory but really isnt. Actually a WF healer/buffer is better (especially if you have a tome) since it is built to survive.

For melee 2WF is out because of the number of feats and the high dex score you need. I went for 2HF on a human build with max str, 14 con, 10 wiz and 12 Cha and it works great. Especially if you go 2fight/18FvS which will allow for heavy armour. Make it a human for the bonus feat and go 2HF and toughness to start, then around level 7-8 go another fighter for the better 2HF and strength bonus. Melee FvS shouldn't go pure to 20 and should have lower wiz scores since you wont cast offensive spells. What you will find out is that in groups you will either be the 2nd best damage dealer that never draws aggro, the 2nd best tank in heavy armor that can heal themself, or the best healer in the group. I find myself outlasting everyone else in groups, and outdamaging everything but tempest rangers, especially when I buff myself. It only gets sweeter if I can throw down an effective BB. And oh yeah I out heal the clerics since I usually have 1.5 times the spell points they have

Um warforged have quite a large number of bonuses for melee FvS.

You get 5 additional DR eventually.....and natural full plate (no need for the mithril stuff like all other favored souls) which is really useful for new players like the OP. Having 3-4 DR at early levels all the time without any special equipment is going to stop a ton of grazing damage when your in melee.

You have all the WF immunities...which is huge if he plans on soloing at all. Later it's not as important...but especially early on it will make a huge difference.

Also due to the lack of feats as you mentioned 2hf is a good way to go for a FvS. Warforged get enhancements for 2hf AND get the ability to use greatswords as a pure favored soul.

There are quite a few bonuses to going pure. The capstone bonus is fairly large giving 10 DR (which stacks with a warforged natural DR for 15/adamantium DR total) and +2 cha as well. Add in the nice ability to cast a spell at will (shield for WF isn't huge..but it saves on clickies you have to use which is nice)

The largest.....disadvantage....of the WF is the lack of feats. A WF Favored soul has 2 less feats then a human favored soul. That is of course if the WF is snagging adamantium armor. You could always ditch it later I guess if your AC does not stay decent....but it's probably worth it even late game for the extra DR and AC boost.

A human melee FvS can work...but you don't get greatsword as your FvS weapon...which means you almost might as well go with TWF at that point...which is better....but means you lose those extra feats in the bargain pretty much.

Anyway for simple.....jump into the game....fun....I think WF melee FvS is the best over all solo and group useful character. You don't need much equipment at all to make your character work...you can kill by yourself quite well and heal very well...you have excellent AC and DR especially early game...you have WF immunities so no paralization to ruin your day etc.

[cyadra]

A 2WF build on a FvS is really impractical since your not a DPS machine. You would actually be better of going with a shield, you will live longer.

[wolfy42]

A 2WF build on a FvS is really impractical since your not a DPS machine. You would actually be better of going with a shield, you will live longer.

Elven TWF scimitar builds are pretty decent DPS actually. You still run with shield spell going all the time (clickies are so common it's silly)...so it's not a huge loss to AC...and if your pure you still get 10/silver (think it's silver) DR at 20.

Elf Flavored souls get +4 damage and +3 to hit easy with scimitars all the time (works on both hands for full bonus). They get divine favor as well that boosts both hands and makes OTWF unneccesary. The damage of a dual scimitar wielding FvS is quite comparable to other damage builds.

Stats something like this:

Str 18 (16)
Dex 16 (06) need +1 tome for ITWF/GTWF
Con 12 (06)
Int 08 (00)
Wis 08 (00)
Cha 12 (04)


All stat points into strength.

Feats:

Toughness/TWF/ITWF/GTWF/Quicken/Maximize/Power attack

Net result is some pretty decent damage while buffed....huge healing pool....decent AC ....10/silver dr all the time...backup nuke spells etc.

Without 32 point builds you could drop strength to 16 I guess and pump dex 1 more point to 17 so you can skip the +1 tome all together for ITWF *shrug*. It's not a huge loss.

Damage long term would be far superior to a THF favored soul....and you really don't lose much in the process. You lose 5 dr (10/silver instead of 15/adamantium), but you gain a feat (no need for adamantium armor). Your AC is actually higher (due to higher base dex with mithril full plate) although that can be compensated for with a +dex item or cats grace I guess. Still your reflex save is higher for sure. You do lose out on some hp though...but it's not a huge loss.

Main difference is it's a long term build...not really peaking till lvl 15 when you can get GTWF (think thats the first time you can get it).

From lvl 15 + though the two weapon fighting favored soul is better at melee combat then the two handed fighting favored soul.

Thing is for new characters lvl 15 is pretty far away. And to really take advantage of TWF you need to get the better equipment out there. It's the good weapons etc that push TWF over the edge so much.

For simplicity a greatsword slices through your enemies just fine...doesn't require excellent knowledge of the game to use...and does not need a high dex...allowing 28 point builds to go with 18 strength and a higher con for more survivability. You do less damage...but are harder to kill. It's a good trade off for a new player who does not have 32 point builds yet.

[WaffleSauce]

Curious, what spells and skills do you select along the way? Also for skills.

Talking to Greatsword build guy by the way, thanks for that!

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

I made a gs wf fvs build and I'm happy with it so far - I'm at level 17 now and still going strong - I've main tanked sally in vod and people didn't take aggro from me (not an ideal test, but a test nonetheless), and was self-healing myself thru the end fight in kobold fine.

I made a mineral II greatsword so I didn't have to take imp crit, took quicken, maximize (for BB) and toughness instead. I'm looking forward to the dr 15/adamantine at level 20.

Garth

[RavenStormclaw]

Yea warforged FvS is a really good way to go. Now tomes required. Below is my starting build which is slighlty different from previous posted.

Str 16
Con 18
Dex 10
Intel 8
Wis 10
Chr 12

All level ups into strength.
18 con since I didn't plan on taking tougness as feats are a bit starved here.

Survivability is excellant. I solo'd Sharn syndicate on hard at level 4 with no deaths, no mana pots, just rest shrines, and my own mana.

Having only 1 skill point I dumped everything into concentration...even though I plan to have quicken...it helps early on. If you have two skill points I would go concnetration adn diplomacy (but that is just me)

feat wise: admantine body, THF, extend, iTHF, icSlash, maximize, GTHF. Extend and icSlash to be switched out for quicken and empower once mineral II is made and spell durations are long enough without extend on.