do fs have to be like a battle cleric?

[twoton]

I was wondering would it be pointless in making a fs for just healing and buffing like a regular healbot cleric?

[QuantumFX]

I was wondering would it be pointless in making a fs for just healing and buffing like a regular healbot cleric?

No. You will do just fine. Though for the amount of trouble you should go for at least a little bit of offensive casting. (I mean you have access to blade barrier and an enhancement chain for Empower Spell. )

[Uska]

will work great and you will have more sp

[wolfy42]

Why not go with silver flame though and end up with unlimited searing lights?

You don't even need a high wisdom to pull it off (searing light has no save and is not affected by spell resistance either).

Honestly though...if your not going to melee....what else are you going to spend stat points on besides wisdom so you can put out some decent offensive and crowd control spells?

I was just mentioning that a dwarf Favored soul can actually work pretty well going with silver flame and speccing in healing/buffing with a side of offensive spells (no high wisdom though). The build I was talking about actually took martial weapons proficiency to be decent at melee...but if you skip it the dwarf gets the nice con bonus.....dwarven toughness 4 (with con enhancements) additional boosts to saving throws vs spells and by going with silver flame you eventually get pretty decent offensive spells long term as well.

32 point build dwarf build would look something like this:

Str 14 (06)
Dex 12 (04) (with cats grace you hit max dex bonus for mith full plate early on when it matters)
Con 20 (16)
Int 08 (00)
wis 08 (00)
cha 12 (06)

Then add all stat points into con, take toughness as a feat and max dwarven toughness and favored soul toughness enhancements.

Should end up with a serious amount of HP...and still have decent saving throws on top of that...and plenty of spell points to buff/heal with.

Searing light will give you plenty of backup damage as well end game (especially if you nab maximize and empower feats). With enhancements, item boosts, maximize and empower searing light should be doing something like 15d8 damage to normal enemies a pop (for free) and 30d8 vs undead etc.....not bad damage at all for a character that didn't specailize in it at all. Also the Searing light capstone bonus is seperate from the actual spell so you can alternate between them for non-stop casting.

I think it's one of the few characters that can concentrate so much on con and still be very effective in battle.

[wolfy42]

How many hp will he have....hmmmmmm.


8*20 per lvl = 160 base
20 base cone + 5 from lvl + 2 from dwarf enhancement + 3 from tome + 6 from item + 2 from greensteel= 38 base con. That is +14 hp per lvl= 280 con bonus hp
10 draconic hp bonus
22 base toughnes
80 toughness enhancement bonus
20 heroic bonus
=572 base hp (with just con bonus items)

GFL= +30
Minos= +20
Greensteel hp bonus = +40

Total max constant bonus without temp spells like rage = 662

It's not worth taking more then 1 toughness to get a higher max hp....especially once you already have so many. Snag quicken,maximize,empower and you should be able to buff and heal everyone just as well (or better) then a heal specialized cleric. Add in the free searing lights and you have a pretty well rounded character end game who also has a very large hp pool.

[twoton]

yeah I was just looking at maxing out wis and starting with a 16 cha and take only the best clerical spells ie. best healing and buffing spells and offensive spells as well. Then as I lvled swaping out low lvl healing spells that I wouldnt use much for something more worth while of the low lvl spell list.

[cyadra]

If your just going to heal and buff, why bother maxing out wisdom? You would probably want more spell points, and hit points so you can live, so I would bump up CON and CHA.

And I would go WF...you wont need STR or INT, take the adamat body feat and if you level him as a pure 20 FvS he gets all the AC bonuses, not to much the nice resists and immunities he already gets. Take the Wiz to 14 or even 12, CHA to 16 and the rest in CON with STR at 10. He wont kill much, but he will be tough to bring down.

[twoton]

well I am maxing out wis because I will be using the good offensive cleric spells as well.

[cyadra]

Well for a nuking build then yeah you got to max the Wiz and take CHA to 12 or 14 max. Definitely go a dex route, and maybe 2 levels of monk wont be bad at all, but without your guildies you will be weak until you get BB. The thing with the FvS is that you can go one of three routes, nuker..healer...melee and if you dont go all the way with one of them then you will suck at all 3.

[wolfy42]

Well for a nuking build then yeah you got to max the Wiz and take CHA to 12 or 14 max. Definitely go a dex route, and maybe 2 levels of monk wont be bad at all, but without your guildies you will be weak until you get BB. The thing with the FvS is that you can go one of three routes, nuker..healer...melee and if you dont go all the way with one of them then you will suck at all 3.

Well there are some hybrids that will work though..so it's not exactly true.


For instance you can go with the whole silver flame to eventually get unlimited searing lights....and snag maximize/empower/quicken for healing spells....but also use them for no-save (or save for half) spells like nimbus/searing light/blade barrier etc.

You don't ROCK at nuking...but your decent...and you still have everything you need to maximize your healing potential.

Melee is a bit more tricky...but honestly you can still heal pretty freaking well (and even nuke halfway decently) with a melee build...especially 2hf build.

Snag THF/ITHF and maybe GTHF (GTHF is optional though you might want something else) on a WF FvS....and also grab quicken/maximize/empower....and you can both nuke decently (with no save spells) and heal quite well also. That is the build I am playing right now and it works quite well at all 3 jobs. I'm mainly specialized for maximum melee ability and high defense....but I can heal VERY fast and for a long time if need be (my spell point pool is huge and I have quicken going all the time).

Nuking....not so much.....I'm decent at it mind you...but I'm almost ALWAYS better off meleeing if I can. If I can't melee though I can still throw down a decent BB....and I have good no-save ranged spells to use against enemies I can't reach (much better then using a ranged weapon!!).

You mainly need high wisdom for crowd control spells and of course the highest nuking damage...but you can still do decent damage with offensive spells with an 8 wisdom.

[WilbyZ]

Try this on for size...

Dwarf 2 Pally/18 FvS, 32 pointer build.

STR 16
DEX 8
CON 18
INT 8
WIS 16 - Put Points into here on level ups.
CHA 8

16 STR is enough to hit most mobs with +5 Greensteels, you could even dual wield some mobs and still hit them at higher ups (even without TWF feats).

8 DEX, Full Plate is always going to be Full Plate (+1 DEX AC bonus). For Mith FP, you could stick on a DEX Item.

18 CON is only 1 down from 20 CON. 20 HP loss, considering you get 6 Stat points back for not going 20 CON.

8 INT, use a +2 INT Tome if you really need the skills.

16 WIS is only one down from 18 WIS, considering you get 6 Stat points back for not going 18 WIS.

8 CHA (from 6 base as Dwarf), starting 8 CHA will get you to 20 CHA at end game. There is no point going for anything higher than 20 CHA (well, 19 really) as it'll only net you minimal returns on SP - Most quests that needs SP will see you drinking Mana pots vs 250 more SP with a higher CHA. Also to mention, 20 CHA will net you an addition +5 to all your already impressive Dwarf+FvS Saves!

[twoton]

yall arent getting it I am thinking of a fs that doesnt melee.

[wolfy42]

Try this on for size...

Dwarf 2 Pally/18 FvS, 32 pointer build.

STR 16
DEX 8
CON 18
INT 8
WIS 16 - Put Points into here on level ups.
CHA 8

16 STR is enough to hit most mobs with +5 Greensteels, you could even dual wield some mobs and still hit them at higher ups (even without TWF feats).

8 DEX, Full Plate is always going to be Full Plate (+1 DEX AC bonus). For Mith FP, you could stick on a DEX Item.

18 CON is only 1 down from 20 CON. 20 HP loss, considering you get 6 Stat points back for not going 20 CON.

8 INT, use a +2 INT Tome if you really need the skills.

16 WIS is only one down from 18 WIS, considering you get 6 Stat points back for not going 18 WIS.

8 CHA (from 6 base as Dwarf), starting 8 CHA will get you to 20 CHA at end game. There is no point going for anything higher than 20 CHA (well, 19 really) as it'll only net you minimal returns on SP - Most quests that needs SP will see you drinking Mana pots vs 250 more SP with a higher CHA. Also to mention, 20 CHA will net you an addition +5 to all your already impressive Dwarf+FvS Saves!

Few problems with this.

First 8 dex means you need +4 to dex (cats grace or item) just to get the +1 from normal full plate. Sadly you can't wear normal full plate....only mithril full plate (since it counts as medium armor) at least if you plan on meleeing at all (admitingly you can wear it and take the penalty to hit if your never going to melee...but you still need a +4 dex item in that case).

Second dwarves actually can boost the max AC of their armor with enhancements...making an 8 dex hurt even more. Heck mithril full plate with dwarven enhancements would require a 14 base dex and a +6 dex item to cap out your AC!!!

There is really no need for a 20 con......it's just for flavor......an 18 con is just fine as you'll get a ton of hp anyway. Cha though should be at LEAST 11 so you can cast your spells as you level up..and for new characters (like the op) you want at least a 12 so you don't have to worry about tomes along the way.

8 cha is HARSH...but doable...if you have equipment all lines up. Even so you have to wait awhile to cast spells. Remember the OP has to deal with new tome rules as well.

He would not be able to get a 11 cha with an 8 base till level 2 IF he has a +1 tome. Without the tome he would have to wait till level 5 (with a +2 cha item) or level 6 without it.

And thats just to cast lvl 1 spells. To cast lvl 2 spells you would have to have both a +1 tome and a +2 item by lvl 5. He would then be able to cast lvl 3 spells right away at 6 if he has the +1 tome and +2 cha item (not that hard to get for old players..but hard for new ones).

At lvl 8 to cast lvl 4 spells he would need a +3 RR cha item I believe...or a +2 tome (lvl 7 min to use). Which isn't going to happen for a new player. At lvl 10 he would get the last enhancement (although he would have to save up AP for it) and be able to cast lvl 4 spells finally.

After lvl 4 spells though it's all on tomes and equipment and to cast lvl 9 spells before lvl 20 (pure) he would need +3 from enhancements, +6 from item and a +2 tome. It's doable mind you.....but again hard for a new character. Also you'll always have to use a cha item in the future. By putting 4 more points into cha to start (12 base) you skip the need for tomes at all.....or skip the need for a cha item at all. Very nice trade off.

[wolfy42]

yall arent getting it I am thinking of a fs that doesnt melee.

There are tons of ways to make a FS that does not melee.

I still think non-melee FVS's should probably go with searing flame.

Since no race has an advantage with Searing Flame (well I guess elves with longbows a bit but it's not a big enough one to matter)...you can be a dwarf if you want.


Dwarves have some very nice advantages for a FvS.

More AC while wearing mithril full plate (due to dwarven armor enhancement).

Higher saving throws vs spells (always nice)

Higher max hp through con enhancements, +2 con at creation and dwarven toughness.

If your not going to melee at all though.....it might be better to go human. You can still get the higher toughness enhancements and you can get +1 to con and +1 to wisdom. You also get 1 extra feat which can be very nice. You can still take Searing Flame as a human.....and AC isn't that important from the back row. Add in the boost to healing from human bonus....and human versatility (and UMD...since you'll have bonus skill points) and you probably come out ahead.

So in that case I'd suggest human with the following starting stats (I think you said you don't have 32 point builds).

Str 10 (02) only to help with carry capacity
Dex 12 (04) Mith full plate with cats grace max ac..and reflex save
Con 14 (6) +1 con from human adapt, +6 con from item, + 3 from tome= 24 con
Int 08 (00) +1 skill points from human = plenty even if you want UMD
wis 16 (10) +1 human adapt, +2 enhance, +5 from lvl, +6 from item, +4 tome= 34
Cha 12 (04) +3 enhancement,+2 tome, +2 capstone = 19 without an item

A 32 point build could pump wis up another 2 points I guess to 18...and drop cha to 10 (if you don't mind using a cha item slot or know you'll have a +4 tome)...or drop con to 12 (still get plenty of hp from toughness due to +1 human adapt con). Or you can leave wis at 16 and pump con to 16 as well.....whatever.

This build would still heal just fine but concentrate on crowd control and nuking. Remember though you don't have a huge number of spells to choose from. At lvl 20 you get the ability to cast searing light at will as backup damage.

AS far as feats...as a human you get 8 of them.

No need for melee ones...so go with something like:

Toughness,maximize,empower,quicken,hieghten,spell pen,improved spell pen,spell focus evocation.

Should give you great crowd control spells...while still giving you a wicked DC on Implosion later on as well.

[nbhs275]

Try this on for size...

Dwarf 2 Pally/18 FvS, 32 pointer build.

STR 16
DEX 8
CON 18
INT 8
WIS 16 - Put Points into here on level ups.
CHA 8

16 STR is enough to hit most mobs with +5 Greensteels, you could even dual wield some mobs and still hit them at higher ups (even without TWF feats).

8 DEX, Full Plate is always going to be Full Plate (+1 DEX AC bonus). For Mith FP, you could stick on a DEX Item.

18 CON is only 1 down from 20 CON. 20 HP loss, considering you get 6 Stat points back for not going 20 CON.

8 INT, use a +2 INT Tome if you really need the skills.

16 WIS is only one down from 18 WIS, considering you get 6 Stat points back for not going 18 WIS.

8 CHA (from 6 base as Dwarf), starting 8 CHA will get you to 20 CHA at end game. There is no point going for anything higher than 20 CHA (well, 19 really) as it'll only net you minimal returns on SP - Most quests that needs SP will see you drinking Mana pots vs 250 more SP with a higher CHA. Also to mention, 20 CHA will net you an addition +5 to all your already impressive Dwarf+FvS Saves!

Yea, this is making no sense. The only real reason on a FvS to focus on wisdom is if your going to be offensively casting. If your going to be doing that dipping out if a dumb idea. losing 2 spell pen is a giant kick in the nuts with the crazy SR the devils and orthons have.

Also, if your going for healing/buffing, your casting stats become less important. I would say cha would be far more important to this build for the saves boost. Hell, again you could ignore wisdom and stay with a 12 starting cha.

And now if your not spending all those points into cha and wisdom, drop the con to 18 base, and get some loving into your dex and strength. So hmm, now you have good saves, strong AC, and the same buffing/healing ability. Grab an axe and jump in the melee and your now living up to your abilities.

[twoton]

I have been thinking of a this:

human 20 fs silver flame.

stats:

str 8
dex 13
con 14
int 8
wis 17
cha 15

+1 tomes in dex, wis and, cha

(mind you I dont have any +2 tomes to use)

stats after tomes
str 8
dex 14
con 14
int 8
wis 18
cha 16

I am thinking of going silver flame so I can use searing light without having to use mana.

Feats: quicken, toughness, maximize, empower, extend, spell pen, improved spell pen, mental toughness.

Should have enough mana to run max, emp and ext. on all the time so healing and offensive spells should do very well.

[wolfy42]

You seriously don't need mental toughness.

And anything over 14 cha is a total and complete waste. I would not every put anything into cha past 12 in almost any case.

You are going to HATE having an 8 strength btw. Not sure how much you have played but even with bulls strength or a +6 strength item later on it's going to blow not being able to carry much from chests etc. I wouldn't put base strength under 10 unless you have a VERY good reason for it.

Why are you going with a 13 dex btw? If it's just for the AC...don't worry about it...with the build your making it won't really matter anyway.

If your gonna nuke.....I suggest going all out on your wisdom if you can. 18 starting wisdom....10 minimum strength. Dex of 12 is ok although honestly you can sacrifice it if you need. Cha of 12 is all you need the bonus sp you get for a higher cha is tiny (very very small) even at lvl 20.

You don't need mental toughness either. You'll have a huge sp pool.....don't worry.

I'd ditch mental toughness and maybe extend...and grab a spell focus and maybe empower healing if you want to really heal like crazy.

Human rocks because you can boost both wisdom and constitution and open up all your toughness enhancements.

Also you get an extra feat which is always nice.

Wis 18 base + 5 level + 1 human adapt + 4 tome +6 item + 2 fvs enhancement = 36

With spell focus you won't be having much save against your spells.

[Harbinder]

do fvs have to be like a battle cleric?

no, it just seems that way. kinda like how every monk thinks they are a front line tank, and every (almost every, I've seen a few well-played fvs, but not many) fvs thinks they're a battle-caster. Can't wrap their heads around being the second fighter. chalk it up to inexperience.

[Donnald]

FvS get some weapon profs + action points and they go nuts in making melee builds...

Why not a barbarian having a trap handling build? I mean, they get trap sense and uncanny dodge right? RIGHT?
Or maybe a trap FvS build, I mean, they get the find trap spell, right?

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

If you're not planning on going melee - you don't need the fvs capstone so you could splash 2 monk and get +2 wis from water stance - that would improve your DC by 1 and still allow you to heighten your spells to level 9 - it would also grant you evasion which is nice for staying alive.

Garth