Fix my paladin's AC

[spoot]

Hi folks. I came back to the game now that it's free. My paladin was pretty diesel when 10 and 12 were the cap and he was serviceable in gianthold. Now I keep reading that if your AC is under 50, it's not worth trying. I'm at 42. However, I don't have great gear. No raid loot at all. I was wondering if I could get some help getting his AC up to respectable numbers. This is my first character and he's only 28 pt buy. I don't expect him to be optimal, just playable.

Here's what I've got:
Str 18 + 2 (tome) + 6 (gear) = 26
Dex 11 + 1 (tome) = 12
Con 14 + 1 (tome) + 6 (gear) = 21
Int 8
Wis 12 + 1 (tome) + 1 (enh) + 6 (gear) = 20
Cha 14 + 1 (tome) +4 (enh) + 5(gear) = 24

Feats: Extend Spell, Power Attack, Focus Slashing, Imp Crit Slashing, MT, Imp MT, Toughness.

HP: 322
SP: 467
AC: 42
Fort: 27
Ref: 21
Will: 23

At level 15, AC is the only thing that I think needs work. I have more SP than I know what to do with (well that's not true, but it's certainly more than I need) and could definitely afford to swap a feat out. Combat Expertise would be great, except that I'm 5 points of int too short and I cast a lot of spells, so CE would get turned off all the time anyway. Is Dodge worth a feat?

As I said, I'm undergeared. Here is where my AC comes from:
10 base
1 dex (this could obviously be improved with some MFP)
13 armor (+5 FP)
7 Shield (Just a +5 heavy)
2 Natural Armor (Invader ring)
3 Deflection (Spectacular Optics)
2 Dodge (Chaosgarde)
4 Misc (Paladin Bulwark)

So yeah, no protection bonus and my armor has room for more dex. I'm sure there's better deflection available. The Titan ring would probably help, but those are pretty rare as far as I know. What other gear should I aim for?

Monk seems really popular but I'd rather avoid it if possible. My wisdom is high, but I don't think I'll be able to get the dex high enough for monk to pay off. As this is my first character, I'd kinda like to keep him pure pally. However if you think monk is the only way to make this guy playable (I hear evasion is necessary) I'm willing to listen.

[Visty]

some tweaks you can do:
get the dragontouched fullplate, has 2 more ac then a +5fp
get a lvl18 cleric cast sof on you or get a +5 protection item for another +2 over you goggles
drink a bark+3 pot for +1ac over your ring or get a ranger for +3 over your ring
get some insight bonus, either +4 on your souvereign rune on your dt armor or on shroud tier3
get the leviks shield, is a +5 mithral towershield with best blocking DR(15) in game (if you dont want to spend a feat on prof or get a fighter lvl, the lorriks shield is ok too, basicly a +5 mithral steelshield but also with DR15; i would consider levik though esp as you can drop improved mental toughness for the towershield prof)

just some thoughts

[Nahual]

Daggertooth's belt (crucible) that gives you armour mastery or whatever so it reduces the max dex bonus on the Dt armour.

[Nyvn]

Dragontouched Armor from Reaver's Refuge. It has +2 ac over Regular Fullplate, and you can put 3 different effects on it for 15 Armor 1 Dex bonus. You can get +3 Dodge, or +4 Insight on the final slot.

You could also use a +5 protection item.

If you opted for, or were lucky enough, to get +3 dodge on your Armor, you can also get +4 Insight on weapons crafted in the shroud.

If you want to use a feat for AC Tower Shield proficiency would give you more than dodge. Speaking of Tower Shields...
Leviks Defender from The Hound will give you 9ac for a gain of +2.

[spoot]

TY. I was worried you guys would tell me to reroll. I'll start with a tower shield, try auctioning for +5 prot, and try to get in groups for DT material.

[bobbryan2]

Or... alternatively. You could grab a greataxe and do a lot more damage. Incidentally needing the ac less.

[spoot]

Or... alternatively. You could grab a greataxe and do a lot more damage. Incidentally needing the ac less.

Well yeah. I plan on doing that until I get proper AC gear. I already have power attack, so all I'd need is the axe and a stack of rage pots.

[Ralmeth]

Welcome back!

Another thought to go one step further. Since you've been gone DPS has really become king: You could really go the THF route for when you want DPS (i.e. most of the time) and break out the shield when things get too hot. To do this, I would recommend swapping out Weapon Focus, MT and IMT for THF, ITHF and GTHF. If you need more SP, you could craft a shroud item that will add to your SP. Just something to think about.

[spoot]

I like it, but I don't think I have the dex. TWF takes 15 dex.

[Twerpp]

I would go Two Handed Fighting on that guy as suggested above. 20 Pally for the capstone and devill killer PrE. The AC you need to hit is gonna be a lot of work and you cant get CE. You can get nice DPS though.

[spoot]

D'oh, sorry I misread your post Ral. Are there any numbers for how those feats affect THF?

[Ganak]

Drop improved mt and pick up tower shield.

Dragontouched armor will be your best armor bet.

Hound tower shield.

Run titan, chattering ring.

[Hirosue]

you dont have enough dex to max that side of Ac i.e dex bonus as additional AC . to give you some idea my level 16 Ac build is sitting at 62 Ac unbuffed . with another 10-12 or so ac possible with raid gear and GS ac weapon .

on some gianthold elite quests he still gets hit sometimes. i think yoiur 42 ac wont help you very much at all. On the plus side your chars str dex con stats do mean that you can be a very decent traditional melee damager. But your lack of dex is reducing the total AC potential of the build.

[jmonty]

if you get some good armor, like the +5 mithral full plate from Vision of Destruction or a set of Dragon Touched full plate, do the Alchemical Armor Eldritch Ritual (+1 ac)

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...+Armor+Effects

and when you get a heavy shield you like do the Alchemical Shield Eldritch Ritual (+1 ac). if you are a pure pally you might not want the tower shield from the hound in that case i would recommend either the madstone shield from the reaver (which gives tower shield proficiency) or a +5 heavy shield with spell resistance on it. or if you can get the other shield from the hound, it has 2 clickies of panacea and the same blocking dr as the defender.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...ht=armor+bonus

whatever you do, i would agree with getting rid of MT, and IMT.

[Ralmeth]

D'oh, sorry I misread your post Ral. Are there any numbers for how those feats affect THF?

No problem The reason I mention this is that I've heard that the capstone bonus damage procs on glancing blows. Though I haven't tested this myself, perhaps someone else here on the forums can fill us in.

From the DDO Wiki: http://ddowiki.com/page/Feats
* Two-Handed Fighting (requires Strength 15+):decreases the to-hit penalty on glancing blows from -5 to -2, and increases their damage from (normal weapon damage)*modifier to (normal weapon damage + 10) * modifier. This feat also works with quarterstaves.

o Improved Two-Handed Fighting (requires Strength 17+, Two-Handed Fighting, base attack bonus of +6 or higher): increases the damage from glancing blows when fighting with a two-handed weapon by 10%. This feat also works with quarterstaves.

+ Greater Two-Handed Fighting (requires Strength 17+, Base attack bonus of +11 or higher and Improved two-handed fighting): when fighting with a two-handed weapon, you will get glancing blows on the 4th attack in your combo chain while standing still. You will also get glancing blows while moving in your second attack, if you have spring attack. These benefits also apply to quarterstaves.

[eonfreon]

I echo Ral's suggestion to worry less about AC and worry more about dps.
I have a Paladin who can hit 70 AC with all the right buffs. 60-62 AC self-buffed.
But most of the time I don't bother much with AC and run around with a 30's - 40's AC. Sure I get hurt but I'm a TWF Pally, so my dps more then compensates.
Keep your shield for it's DR bonuses when you need to shieldblock but don't worry about it too much. Just use a Falchion or Great Axe for the dps most of the time and don't completely ignore the AC grind, but just let the items come at their own pace.
With your Dex and no CE, you're unlikely to add too much more very quickly until the Devs add more items to the game.
AS far as the THF Feats are concerned, I don't know if they are worth the investment yet. They could be good though, siince if they are really underwhelming I figure the Devs will buff it some day.
BTW I was looking at your stats.
What Stat did you put your level ups into?

[spoot]

BTW I was looking at your stats.
What Stat did you put your level ups into?

I was wondering about that too. I think I meant to do all strength, but might have done a dex by accident at some point. I have no idea why I would have done that, except that they're next to each other and I sometimes use my mouse in my clumsy-ass left hand to keep the carpal tunnel in my right from getting worse.

I also screwed up when I listed my feats. I only had one mental toughness. The other should have been khopesh proficiency. I swapped out MT and grabbed tower shields.

My plan for now is to try AC and two handers and see which works better. If I grab the tower shield from the reaver raid, I can swap out that feat and use my level 18 feat to pick up 2 of the THF feats. If I like playing that way I can give up khopesh to get the other one. My khopesh collection is probably junk by mod 9's standards anyway.

[jmonty]

Sure I get hurt but I'm a TWF Pally, so my dps more then compensates.

so are you helpless without a cleric or is the damage small enough to self heal in-between fights?

[eonfreon]

so are you helpless without a cleric or is the damage small enough to self heal in-between fights?

Actually, I can do with or without Clerics, or any dedicated type of healer when it comes to melee combat. I like Clerics for other reasons. I like their BB and other offensive spells. I'm a self-healer.

The damage has always been manageable, except those times when it isn't and I get killed . But in all seriousness, I've played this Paladin differently as he progressed in levels. He started out S&B and THF, because the first TWF Feat doesn't do much at early levels. After about 8th level I never picked up a THF weapon again, it became S&B for defense, TWF for dps.

As my collection of TWF combo weapons got better there became less and less reasons to go S&B. Once I got a paralyzer, that became my defense and offense. Wielding a dps weapon and a paralyzer became optimum when fighting MOBS who can be paralyzed all the way through Gianthold, Vale, and Refuge. Eventually I picked up a Vorp and a bunch of stat damages and banes and bursts (dual wielding Holy Sword Raper and short sword combo and PA gets me some awesome numbers against Harry- I never counted all the damage but I know I've doubled Exalted Smite him for ~800 (500 + 300). But thats just a burst.

I can actually get up to 55-60 self-buffed TWF AC (70 w/Raid Buffs) and I still barely bother. I even dropped two Feats- Dodge and TWD. Of course I'm taking some steady damage, but it seldom becomes too troublesome. When I can I control the battlefield and that helps a lot. Movement is my primary defense. Generally I like fighting back to back with a fellow melee, but some times it's me against 4+ MoBS. I use their bodies against them. I try to prevent more then 2 to reach me at once. And if all else fails and I'm low on hp from some constant or substantial damage, I either go through the hop-run-heal method or the shield block and heal. I quickly click a cure wand, spell, and pots, one after the order in quick succession (unless I have a LOH then that'll give me near 200 hp back- but I usually save LOH for the other party members or for a desperate moment.

So even though I could run around with a standing 50-60 AC, I don't bother. Of course I did care a little bit more about AC before I got my favorite DT vestment made with Radiance Guard. As I came to appreciate the value of blinded MOBS I lowered my AC more and more. I prefer Levik's Braces to ChaosGuards or my +6 Armor Braces. I prefer my Dt Radiance Vestment to my Icy Raiments, etc.

That's why I think they really need to buff up S&B offense now that they've weakened S&B defense. It's just unfair that a S&B strength build does much less dps then my TWF Dex build and really takes the same amount of damage. Before a S&B who could get AC to the level that MOBs needed a 20 to hit was at least someone the rest of us knew we didn't have to keep much of an eye on. Now that he gets Grazed on a 13-19 on Elite, means he's suddenly a regular draw on our resources, something he seldom dealt with before. Now he might as well chuck that shield and swing his Falchion. Sure he'll take twice the damage on a 13-19 but he'll kill more than twice as fast. Luckily my friend also has a lot of hp, he wasn't one of those that S&B who thought he could trade avoidance for absorption.

S&B AC has it's place, as long as you can pull the agro to benefit from MOBS wasting their time beating themselves against your AC (either Intimidate or working with a group that lets the melees lead and grab the agro). Basically it's awesome until 8th level and falls down and has bumps up once in awhile. But overall until he get sent in to distract the Hound and shieldblock, there's less reason to use the shield or even augment AC.

Since I can UMD shield wands I can actually achieve a higher AC TWF, but against the hound I'd drop down the 2 points for the extra DR of the shield, because in that case he's gonna hit me a lot, his 3 flanking Kiddies are also gonna hit regularly, and in this scenario every Tank needs a Cleric stapled to their ass . But thanks to my defense in this case, i can deflect and lessen incoming damage enough that my 500 hp >= 900 hp of a Barbarian who has less AC for instance.

AC has it's place, but it's a grind and you have to rally build it in preparation (at the very least enough int for CE or plan on the needed Tomes to achieve that). As an example I can reach 70 AC with Raid Buffs, but I'm missing quite a lot of needed items, because my projections look like I can achieve 80 AC when the Heaven's Align . Just need Chattering Ring (+3) another Wis Tome (+1) raise my dex (potentially +2) pick Dodge back up (+1) Level 15 Pally Aura (+1) and +8 Armor Bracers (+2).

For now my AC of 60 when I need AC works. Rest of the time I'm pretty sure I let it drop down to 30-35 AC. If it's a Raid I can usually count on buffs getting me to 70 AC if I need. But I seldom need.

[William_the_Bat]

I have an S&B pally that I really enjoy, he also lacks the dex for TWF, and yes, I rolled a TWF pally, but I have too many other projects to really level him up.

To break it down (most of these have been said already, but I'll add a couple at the end)

+5 prot item gives you +2 over the optic nerve

barkskin potion gives you +1 over the ring.. you may find after rearranging your gear that you really would like to use that ring slot for something else and chug barks.

Mithral or DT armor are great, but Mithral is very expensive unless you are super lucky and DT armor is not going to happen until you are relatively high level.

Tower shield +2

Alchemical ritual on both armor and shield +1 and +1.

That's 7 points right there (9 if you get mithral and a dex item), which puts you in the "useful" range for normal, "semi-useful" for hard, and "ouch" on elite.

One more AC bonus nobody mentioned: defender of siberys. If you are level 12 and have tower shield, it's not too tough to re-adjust your enhancements a bit and get DoS. You'll get +1 standing AC assuming a dex item, and I think 3 more dodge bonus in defensive stance (along with extra STR and CON) So now we're talking about an 8 to 13 point turn around, which is more than just a little bit useful.

Two things nobody has mentioned:

Heavy Fortification!

The reason you are getting beat up in gianthold is because almost everything has improved critical, and it hurts! Get yourself a heavy fort item, the most common one is the minos legens helm you get in the necropolis by obtaining 20 tapestry pieces. The helm is extra nice because it also gives +20 HP that stack with everything.

Damage reduction!

On the cheap, use the angelskin spell. If you are wealthy or lucky, Golden Greaves are boots that have some striding and DR 3/-. For a long time I was using fullplate of spearblock and a shield of axeblock, and that helped a lot against non-blunt damage. These days I mostly use extended angelskin, and again, it helps a lot. (extend is my friend, I cast extended angelskin, zeal, and divine favor, and have a bit more than 4 minutes of buttkicking power! Punctuated by recasting divine might 3 every minute, bleah.)

Good luck! I will tell you that with a little work even an S&B pally can be useful and fun. In some groups, depending on who I'm playing with, I'll outkill the TWF ranger and the THF barb. This is usually because I play aggressively and take advantage of the paladin's strengths (burst DPS and nigh-invulnerability) and have the right weapons for the job (usually holy sword). Mind you, the guys on this thread telling you to reroll and laughing at me now I probably would not win the kill count against, as they also play aggressively, take advantage of their strengths, and have the right equipment for the job.