Monk splash value?

[chezen]

I'm a returning player and the last time I played was before Monks were available as a class. I've been looking through the different builds to figure out what char I should create.

My question is, I see a lot of monk splash builds. What I don't understand is, what are the benefits of 1 monk splash? I get the wis modifier to AC but that only applies if you are centered. Most of these builds wear armor or dual wield large weapons.

Someone help me understand please?

Thanks.

[Unknownperson]

Wisdom bonus to AC applies even when not centered.

[chezen]

One followup question. Does Unarmed Strike bonus to BaB apply to all levels or just the monk levels?

[chezen]

Wisdom bonus to AC applies even when not centered.

Thank you.

[binnsr]

One followup question. Does Unarmed Strike bonus to BaB apply to all levels or just the monk levels?

Just the monk levels. So, if you had a lvl2 character with 1 level of monk and 1 of cleric, you'd have a BAB of 1 when centered , but a BAB of 0 when using non-monk weapons.

[Phidius]

Splash a monk level to get a free feat, boost to saves, and Wis bonus to AC.
Splash a second to get evasion, more to saves, and a 2nd free feat.

It's a tasty splash, indeed.

[soubal]

Splash a monk level to get a free feat, boost to saves, and Wis bonus to AC.
Splash a second to get evasion, more to saves, and a 2nd free feat.

It's a tasty splash, indeed.

it's a game breaking splash, indeed, and the devs need to kill it off.

Make it so it's only available when centered or (better yet) make it apply on a sliding scale so you get a portion of it. If you're a level 20 character with 1 level of monk, you get 1/20 of the 'monk' bonus to AC. 15Rng/2Mnk? only getting 2/17 of that wis AC.

[Dimicron]

it's a game breaking splash, indeed, and the devs need to kill it off.

Make it so it's only available when centered or (better yet) make it apply on a sliding scale so you get a portion of it. If you're a level 20 character with 1 level of monk, you get 1/20 of the 'monk' bonus to AC. 15Rng/2Mnk? only getting 2/17 of that wis AC.

Until a full respec mechanism is implemented I do not believe that the devs should be in the business of killing off any character builds. For the most part if it's doable in PnP it should be doable in DDO.

And it should never be the policy of the devs to nerf classes. If you must have equality(which is not available in PnP) then find ways to lift up other classes rather than wholesale swinging of the nerf bat.

[bobbryan2]

it's a game breaking splash, indeed, and the devs need to kill it off.

Make it so it's only available when centered or (better yet) make it apply on a sliding scale so you get a portion of it. If you're a level 20 character with 1 level of monk, you get 1/20 of the 'monk' bonus to AC. 15Rng/2Mnk? only getting 2/17 of that wis AC.

I don't think the devs want to destroy the best thing monks offer.

[xyber_matrix]

Hi guys,

Just took a lvl of monk today. Don't seem to be getting the Wisdom AC bonus when wearing armor, any idea why?

[Vivanto]

For the most part if it's doable in PnP it should be doable in DDO.

For the most part, 0 con means death in PnP... shall I continue to other deviations, starting with 'there is no such thing as centered in PnP' ?

I agree, give class and/or stat level respec, but kill it off and make center-only.

[Vivanto]

Hi guys,

Just took a lvl of monk today. Don't seem to be getting the Wisdom AC bonus when wearing armor, any idea why?

You are not supposed to get it when wearing armor or shield.

[Depravity]

Hi guys,

Just took a lvl of monk today. Don't seem to be getting the Wisdom AC bonus when wearing armor, any idea why?

That's vbecause it doesn't work in armor or with a shield. Only with robes/vestments/docent/armor bracers. Works just dandy with cloth and dual wield. Evasion will still work if it's light armor.

Until a full respec mechanism is implemented I do not believe that the devs should be in the business of killing off any character builds. For the most part if it's doable in PnP it should be doable in DDO.

That's just it, it's not doable in (base) PnP. If you read the player's handbook, you'll see that both monks and paladins lose all their abilities if they ever gain a level in another class. Later expansions brought in feats that would let you mix one other class with monk, but that was about it. Much of that was done due to how nice a splash they were, just like the 3.0 to 3.5 ranger nerf (hit die dropped from 10 to 8, twf went from first level to second).

***EDIT*** Checked my 3.0 PHB, cause it was handy, just to make sure - they didn't lose abilities but lost the right to ever take another monk/paladin level. Would have been a constant source of player complaints on here.

[weedf16]

I don't think the devs want to destroy the best thing monks offer.

I say nerf it! You should only get the AC bonus if you are centered. This would not be a nerf of the Monk class in any way. This would only be a nerf of 'builds' that are taking advantage of what imo is an exploit in the first place.

[Lymnus]

...imo is an exploit in the first place.

How is in an exploit when it's a PnP staple? Characters in PnP dip into monk, ninja, and swordsage constantly for wisdom bonus to AC. I don't see how it's an exploit.

[xyber_matrix]

Also, its not like the bonus AC is given regardless, like Vivanto and Depravity pointed out, there are restrictions.

@Vivanto and especially Depravity, thanks for answering my question and clearing things up for me. Cheers.

[hermespan]

it's a game breaking splash, indeed, and the devs need to kill it off.

Make it so it's only available when centered or (better yet) make it apply on a sliding scale so you get a portion of it. If you're a level 20 character with 1 level of monk, you get 1/20 of the 'monk' bonus to AC. 15Rng/2Mnk? only getting 2/17 of that wis AC.

It's not game breaking, there's an inherent cost to any splash. No capstone... Since the ranger capstone is range based you aren't losing anything as a melee build. Make a worthwhile melee capstone for ranger and the monk splash rangers will go away. Of course then everyone will say Tempest is game breaking.

D&D 3.5e pnp rules (which is what the game is based on) allow any splash as long as the alignment restrictions are compatible.

That's why it's allowed. You can do the same splash in PnP and get the same benefits if you so desire. It is not an "exploit" despite the name. This is a common misconception. Now evasion builds with heavy armor? That was an exploit because the game was broken and didn't enforce the evasion restrictions.

That's why it was "nerfed" (fixed is a better term).

With monk/rogue splash rangers, nothing is broken, so they aren't going to change it. Will they add a worthwhile melee capstone, to make up for the TWF speed nerf? Maybe.

That would be a nerf to the exploiter build, in a way, but at least melee rangers would have a real reason to go for the capstone.

[hermespan]

I say nerf it! You should only get the AC bonus if you are centered. This would not be a nerf of the Monk class in any way. This would only be a nerf of 'builds' that are taking advantage of what imo is an exploit in the first place.

I'm not sure why you care about this. In any quests above level 15 and epic, that extra AC is absolutely _useless_. It's debatable above level 12. Below that the bonus scales with the levels you can wear wisdom items.

If you don't have an AC over 75 it's not doing you any good in high level raids.

I think I can crack 48 raid buffed. Utterly meaningless AC... The mobs need to roll a 1 to miss me. I splashed monk for the extra feat and save bonus. AC is the last thing on my mind as a twf dps. Wis bonus to ac is simply irrelevant. They could completely remove it and I'd still build an "exploiter". Without a viable ranger melee capstone there's no reason to stay pure and absolutely every reason to splash monk.

Even at level 15 devils slice you up like butter unless you can kill them very fast (banishers 4tw).