Advice needed for Wiz/Rogue

[2noob4u]

I am thinking of starting a Drow Wiz18/Rogue2 build.
Str 10
Dex 15
Con 11
Int 18
Wis 10
Chr 14
Is this a legitimate start to this build or will I gimp myself in the future? Thanks for any advice.

[Sohryu]

The CON is a bit low, I'd recommend taking some out of DEX and putting it in CON. More hit points never hurts on a "squishy" class. Drop the DEX down to 12 and put the remaining points in CON. The higher CHA is nice if you plan on putting ranks in Use Magical Device, which can enable you to equip items and equipment that are race required and can even enable you to use heal scrolls for self healing at higher levels, with the right gear.

Make sure you take a rogue level first so you can take advantage of the extra skill points, and put the points in things like Disable, Search, Open lock, Balance, and UMD. Then when you take your wizard levels you will still be able to put full ranks in these skills, but keep in mind they will cost 2 skill points for 1 rank since they will be considered cross class for a wizard. Also invest in Concentration on your wizard levels.

Consider laying your stats out like so:

STR 10
DEX 12
CON 14
INT 18
WIS 8
CHA 14

Take the rogue level first, then take wizard until at least level 8 then take your second rogue level whenever you want to gain evasion.

[Montrose]

I am thinking of starting a Drow Wiz18/Rogue2 build.
Str 10
Dex 15
Con 11
Int 18
Wis 10
Chr 14
Is this a legitimate start to this build or will I gimp myself in the future? Thanks for any advice.

Unless you are planning on playing a stealth character, drop the DEX down to 10. The only useful rogue skills that rely on DEX are open lock, hide, and move silent. Locks are rarely an issue, and hide/move silent is only useful if you're planning on building around those skills.

Raise your CON. 11 is way too low. You will die. A lot. I wouldn't actually recommend drow for this build, I would recommend WF, especially if you are doing an 18 INT anyway.

[2noob4u]

Thanks for the advice. What would be the best way to start a 28pt WF Wiz/Rog?

[zavozod]

As a 28 pt build I am pushing the limits of good taste. But I did it. I call him Puke, THE LOOTER...

Traps I can do em
Locks I can do em
Spot where are the traps?
Repair myself

1750 fav chaser, with a lil haggle,I can buff,haste lay down a decent fire wall.
My run buddie is goin 3 pally and 17 sorc intimi something.

Starting a new server I wanted a swiss army knife build.
16 wiz
3 rog
1 monk - personal play style ;}

Str 12
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 16
Wis 6 - LoL +4 tome anyone?
Cha 10

I am going TwF with this puppie so I figed my AP 2 to dex +1 dex tome for IMP and GrTr TwF.
melee will be stat dam not DpS.
3 towards int will put me around 28-30 ish.
Skill Pts man I want em but I get just enuff

This is a tuff build to play but for my play style it will be a blast.

[rsgeiger]

Unless you are planning on playing a stealth character, drop the DEX down to 10. The only useful rogue skills that rely on DEX are open lock, hide, and move silent. Locks are rarely an issue, and hide/move silent is only useful if you're planning on building around those skills.

I'm a bit of a newbe, so please educate me. If he is not going to be doing DEX and stealth for his AC, then how is he going to get a high AC while still being able to cast spells?

Thanks

[zavozod]

AC? wiz/rog will have no usefull AC for melee'n.
Displacement and stone skin will your protection.
Stealth? not much use for it in the game actually.
Maybe 2% of available content u could USE stealth, but not needed in anyway.

[Xykal]

Locks are rarely an issue

Does this mean that you can skip the Open Lock skill altogether and simply use Knock instead?

[Montrose]

I'm a bit of a newbe, so please educate me. If he is not going to be doing DEX and stealth for his AC, then how is he going to get a high AC while still being able to cast spells?

Thanks

Past level 5 or so, your AC will never be high enough to matter. You'll use Blur and displace instead, which give a 20% or 50% chance for opponent to miss. (They don't stack, the higher value is used).

In this game, you have to specialize in AC and use some very specific build and gear combinations for your AC to be effective at end-game.

[Montrose]

Does this mean that you can skip the Open Lock skill altogether and simply use Knock instead?

For the most part, yes. Almost any important door can be knocked. I think Von5 and.or tempest spine done at-level may be an exception, but that's 2 quests in the entire game. (And they are both raids, so you can just bring a full rogue in)

[Montrose]

Thanks for the advice. What would be the best way to start a 28pt WF Wiz/Rog?

Put as many points as you can into INT, then put points in CON until it ceases to amuse you. STR, DEX, WIS, and CHR are all dump stats for you.

First level take rogue and allocate your spell points according to your whim. Make sure you max Search and Disable. The rest are pretty fungible.

Take Wizard until you get firewall. After that you can take the 2nd level of rogue pretty much whenever. Taking it earlier gets you evasion but puts new spells off for awhile.

I personally levelled until I got reconstruct, then took the 2nd level of rogue.

[Deusxmachina]

Does this mean that you can skip the Open Lock skill altogether and simply use Knock instead?

I haven't tested it much, but I've read plenty of posts around here that say the two don't compare.

[Club'in]

The thing about Knock, is the highest lock it can open is DC20 (or if it's higher than that, it isn't much higher). I would max Open Lock on your first level (you'll have more skill points than you know what to do with), and then on your wizard levels, just put one point into it (which will raise it a half of a rank each level up) until you get it to 7 - 10. You should be good from there. With 8 ranks in OL, then the roll of the dice to open the lock/chest (you'll eventually roll a 20), plus the thieves tools bonus (I think +5 thieves tools actually account for a +7 bonus to your roll), plus your open lock gloves/ring/googles, you'll easily get your max up over 40. A rogue skill boost, the prayer spell, a bard buff, heroism/greater heroism, Voice of the Master/Head of Good Fortune, etc. will all give you additional bonuses to overcome the lock's difficulty value.

[WolfSpirit]

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page
Warforged Wizard/Rogue
Level 20 Neutral Good Warforged Male
(2 Rogue \ 18 Wizard) 
Hit Points: 206
Spell Points: 1382 
BAB: 10\10\15\20
Fortitude: 10
Reflex: 15
Will: 9
               Starting          Feat/Enhancement
              Base Stats          Modified Stats
Abilities        (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength              8                     8
Dexterity             8                     8
Constitution         18                    18
Intelligence         18                    23
Wisdom                6                     6
Charisma              8                     8
               Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
              Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
Balance               3                  3                    3
Bluff                -1                 -1                   -1
Concentration         6                 27                   27
Diplomacy             3                  3                    3
Disable Device        8                 29                   29
Haggle               -1                 -1                   -1
Heal                 -2                 -2                   -2
Hide                  3                  3                    3
Intimidate           -1                 -1                   -1
Jump                  3                  3                    3
Listen               -2                 -2                   -2
Move Silently         3                  3                    3
Open Lock            n/a               n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a               n/a                   n/a
Repair                8                 10                   10
Search                8                 29                   29
Spot                  2                  8                    8
Swim                 -1                 -1                   -1
Tumble                3                  3                    3
Use Magic Device      3                 22                   22
 
Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Diplomacy (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Hide (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Repair (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Insightful Reflexes
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Composite Plating
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Light Fortification
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding
Feat: (Automatic) Warforged Resistances
 
Level 2 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Extend Spell
Feat: (Automatic) Inscribe Scroll
Feat: (Automatic) Magical Training
Spell (1): Charm Person
Spell (1): Expeditious Retreat
Spell (1): Hypnotism
Spell (1): Jump
Spell (1): Magic Missle
Spell (1): Niac's Cold Ray
Spell (1): Repair Light Damage
Spell (1): Shield
 
Level 3 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Spell (1): Acid Spray
Spell (1): Nightshield
 
Level 4 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (2): Blur
Spell (2): Repair Moderate Damage
 
Level 5 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (2): Web
Spell (2): Resist Energy
 
Level 6 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Heighten Spell
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
Spell (3): Haste
Spell (3): Fireball
 
Level 7 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Spell (3): Repair Serious Damage
Spell (3): Heroism
 
Level 8 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (4): Wall of Fire
Spell (4): Repair Critical Damage
 
Level 9 (Rogue)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+5)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion
 
Level 10 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (4): Stoneskin
Spell (4): Phantasmal Killer
 
Level 11 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (5): Prismatic Ray
Spell (5): Hold Monster
 
Level 12 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Mental Toughness
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Maximize Spell
Spell (5): Cloudkill
Spell (5): Mass Repair Light Damage
 
Level 13 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (6): Acid Fog
Spell (6): Greater Heroism
 
Level 14 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (6): Flesh to Stone
Spell (6): Reconstruct
 
Level 15 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration
Spell (7): Banishment
Spell (7): Otto's Sphere of Dancing
 
Level 16 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (7): Prismatic Spray
Spell (7): Mass Hold Person
 
Level 17 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Wizard Bonus) Enlarge Spell
Spell (8): Polar Ray
Spell (8): Mass Repair Critical Damage
 
Level 18 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Penetration
Spell (8): Trap the Soul
Spell (8): Mass Charm Monster
 
Level 19 (Wizard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (9): Energy Drain
Spell (9): Mass Hold Monster
 
Level 20 (Wizard)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (9): Wail of the Banshee
Spell (9): Mordenkainen’s Disjunction

-
This Character should have no trouble with any traps in the game. Notice lv 9 which the second level of Rogue comes into play, this is also when you max out the UMD and continue with it maxed from that point on. By lv 9 you should notice your survivablility increase do to several factors. The Skills can be played with a bit, I put extras into spot because with a good spot item it can become a valid skill, though a bit on the light side. It would be just as valuable to choose diplo over Spot to get that as high as possible and with a good diplo item have it also become valid. Open Lock is also a very good choice for this one Half skill point per level as pointed out in the post above. (+1 Rep for ya Club!)

[Delt]

The thing about Knock, is the highest lock it can open is DC20 (or if it's higher than that, it isn't much higher). I would max Open Lock on your first level (you'll have more skill points than you know what to do with), and then on your wizard levels, just put one point into it (which will raise it a half of a rank each level up) until you get it to 7 - 10. You should be good from there. With 8 ranks in OL, then the roll of the dice to open the lock/chest (you'll eventually roll a 20), plus the thieves tools bonus (I think +5 thieves tools actually account for a +7 bonus to your roll), plus your open lock gloves/ring/googles, you'll easily get your max up over 40. A rogue skill boost, the prayer spell, a bard buff, heroism/greater heroism, Voice of the Master/Head of Good Fortune, etc. will all give you additional bonuses to overcome the lock's difficulty value.

I have Open Lock on my Wiz/Rog and Knock covers pretty much every worthwhile locked object you'll deal with.

The only reason to really grab Open Lock is if you are lazy or forgetful and forget to swap knock in when you need it.

Also, I am pretty sure you are incorrect on the DC. I vaguely remember knock being capable of getting DC50+ locks. I've never paid much attention to it and am at work right now...so maybe someone else can confirm.

[Deusxmachina]

The thing about Knock, is the highest lock it can open is DC20 (or if it's higher than that, it isn't much higher).

My sorcerer runs around with a level 10 Knock wand. It works about half the time. Roll an 18 +10 wand = 28. Whiff. Then the rogue comes by and *click*. It's been a while since I've carried the actual spell, so can't comment much on that.

[Club'in]

I have Open Lock on my Wiz/Rog and Knock covers pretty much every worthwhile locked object you'll deal with.

The only reason to really grab Open Lock is if you are lazy or forgetful and forget to swap knock in when you need it.

Also, I am pretty sure you are incorrect on the DC. I vaguely remember knock being capable of getting DC50+ locks. I've never paid much attention to it and am at work right now...so maybe someone else can confirm.

The main reason for OL is to get into chests (and a few doors). There are many many chests that Knock is not going to cut it. Even if the OP only dumps his original 4 skill points into OL, he's gonna be able to get way passed Knock's capabilities. And on a multiclass spell caster, you're not going to waste a spell slot on Knock. Better to have an inventory spot taken up by an OL item. And I told him to max it out at between 7 - 10. Not exactly a wasteful amount.

[Delt]

The main reason for OL is to get into chests (and a few doors). There are many many chests that Knock is not going to cut it. Even if the OP only dumps his original 4 skill points into OL, he's gonna be able to get way passed Knock's capabilities. And on a multiclass spell caster, you're not going to waste a spell slot on Knock. Better to have an inventory spot taken up by an OL item. And I told him to max it out at between 7 - 10. Not exactly a wasteful amount.

Meh...silly blank screen posting bug ate my post.

I can't imagine a Wiz with 5x level 2 slots having trouble fitting knock in (maybe swapping out for ooze puppet once in a blue moon) but that aside, what unknockable chests/doors do you believe are clutch or desirable? I honestly can't think of any and am genuinely curious.

Edit: I also check my slacker 15wiz/2rog for the DC (and it could definately be higher):

(Combat): You make a Knock skill check. You roll a 20 (+29): success!

So why bother putting 4 skill points and the items in if you end up near the same DC as the spell? If he wants to include pick lock, might as well try to max it so it actually gets the few chests/doors that might be 50+ DC.

[Club'in]

I'm confused as to why you're confused, Delt. What do you suggest he put the four points into, Swim? With a starting intel of 18, his first level skill point total will be huge.

Do you really want me to list everything that can't be knocked? The mindflayer chest out in Gianthold. The Cabal chest. The chest in Restless Isles as you're running to Ghola Fan. Or how about running Tear of Dhakaan, where all the shrines are behind locked doors? And the first time he blows through a quarter of his spell points throwing knock at a chest that still won't open when he finally rolls a 20, I think he'll agree with me. 7 or 8 ranks into OL is not a huge investment. Also, level 2 has some great spells: Blur, Resist Energy, Scorching Ray, Otto's, Glitterdust, Acid Arrow, Invisibility. You're honestly advocating Knock over those? And he's warforged, so he may even want the moderate Repair over something like Knock.

[Delt]

I'm confused as to why you're confused, Delt. What do you suggest he put the four points into, Swim? With a starting intel of 18, his first level skill point total will be huge.

I didn't suggest swim - are you pretending that balance, haggle, etc don't exist to make an exaggerated point? Either way, I never exactly said I recommend NOT getting pick, I just figure it should be invested beyond the bare minimum to make use of it beyond Knock capabilities (for the few places and times you'd need it).

Do you really want me to list everything that can't be knocked? The mindflayer chest out in Gianthold. The Cabal chest. The chest in Restless Isles as you're running to Ghola Fan. Or how about running Tear of Dhakaan, where all the shrines are behind locked doors?

No, I was genuinely curious what DC50+ locks out there existed that you saw as important enough to allocate skill points towards. I was hoping I'd learn some new cool info, as I don't pay tons of attention to DCs. I also know the DC acts kinda wacky with knock in comparison to pick (for example, the Cabal chest on elite it pickable on a 48, but won't open to a knock 48). The locked first chest in Titan acts similar.

Of the examples you gave me, only the Cabal is accurate (maybe the Restless isles). Both chests are unimportant. The flayer one was where I actually tested that knock DC attempt (chest is ~45ish DC). I was hoping you had some important examples - guess you don't.

Also, level 2 has some great spells: Blur, Resist Energy, Scorching Ray, Otto's, Glitterdust, Acid Arrow, Invisibility. You're honestly advocating Knock over those? And he's warforged, so he may even want the moderate Repair over something like Knock.

Egh, you must be kidding. Resist and SR...that's two. The rest are funny. The other 3 slots would probably be Snowball, Web and the last slot is there for you to screw around with (only Knock and Ooze Puppet have utility late game imo).