Looking For A 28pt Warforged Monk Build

[Braumiller]

Hi all,

I am looking to create a WF Monk build and cannot find any full builds posted anywhere. Does anyone have a link or possibly be able to post a build / template I could follow?

What are the main do's and don't's for WF monks?

TIA

[Xionanx]

I'm gonna be completely honest with you here; WF are VERY hard to build with just 28pts. There should be a warning sign next to them that states: This is an ADVANCED race only recommended for those with access to 32PT builds and stat tomes.

Your best bet would be to use a Drow until you unlock 32PT builds.

[Uska]

I'm gonna be completely honest with you here; WF are VERY hard to build with just 28pts. There should be a warning sign next to them that states: This is an ADVANCED race only recommended for those with access to 32PT builds and stat tomes.

Your best bet would be to use a Drow until you unlock 32PT builds.

Umm my new 28pt wf paladin is doing very fine on the new server thank you. That being said your right about drow proably being a better choice for non32pt monk.

[Aerendil]

I'd argue that it has nothing to do with the point build. You can build 28 pt Human or Halfling monks just fine.

It's just that the -2 wisdom penalty with Warforged hurts. So even with a 32 point build, you'll be struggling to have an impressive stunning fist/QP DC, when compared to the other races.
They're better off with a Str/Dex build, IMO, using weapons such as kamas or quarterstaff.

Just my 2cp.

[WolfSpirit]

The Warforged AND the Monk are both for Advanced. Not to say that you are NOT advanced, but they both are and do NOT compliment each other very well at all. The WF struggles often due to low heal effectivness and other advanced issues. The Monk Struggles just to be a competivtive period. Mixing the two is making a difficult class to compete all together. To try this without 32pt build is very hard because:
1. You need those extra points for certain.
2. The actual game experience you get for grinding out 32pt builds will ensure you a deeper understanding of the class/race/player base.
Which is why you are having a hard time finding a build.

[mutantbee]

STR 14
DEX 16
CON 12
INT 8
WIS 14
CHA 6

All that 32 point would give you is a CON of 16, or STR of 16. Nice, yes, but not earth shattering.

I have this build and am having fun. Personally I am going level ups into DEX and the Finesse route. I know everyone says STR for our gimp DPS, but here's the trick. WF get up to a 3 point bump via enahncements to PA. So, if you go wind stance and level ups into DEX, you get an amazing AC and a very high TOHIT score. This allows you to keep PA ON almost all the time. And that's where you get your DPS from, plus 8 DMG per hit at Wind stance speed. That plus 4 DEX at tier 4 really helps put your TOHIT over the top.

Or you could go STR route, but I really think the DEX and WF PA combo is more powerful.

You could also pump WIS for the DC's but I think you gotta pick one and stay with it.

Seriously, dont go for a balanced build with a 28 pt WF. I think the above will give you a very nice AC and DPS (heh) build. And it's fun. The 12 CON can be made up for with Toughness and enh. Plus you dont get hit that much anyway. Stay Pure, for sure.

Feats the usual, TWF chain, PA, Toughness, Finesse, Dodge. Stunning fist and/or blow.

WF also get an enh line to improve DC on stunning blow, rumor has it that it might improve Stunning Fist as well. Having tested that yet though.

Have FUN!
WF are the coolest looking Monks around. Don't let a -1 Stat modifier (those 4 build points) stop you. It's just not that bad.

[Xionanx]

STR 14
DEX 16
CON 12
INT 8
WIS 14
CHA 6

All that 32 point would give you is a CON of 16, or STR of 16. Nice, yes, but not earth shattering.

I have this build and am having fun. Personally I am going level ups into DEX and the Finesse route. I know everyone says STR for our gimp DPS, but here's the trick. WF get up to a 3 point bump via enahncements to PA. So, if you go wind stance and level ups into DEX, you get an amazing AC and a very high TOHIT score. This allows you to keep PA ON almost all the time. And that's where you get your DPS from, plus 8 DMG per hit at Wind stance speed. That plus 4 DEX at tier 4 really helps put your TOHIT over the top.

Or you could go STR route, but I really think the DEX and WF PA combo is more powerful.

You could also pump WIS for the DC's but I think you gotta pick one and stay with it.

Seriously, dont go for a balanced build with a 28 pt WF. I think the above will give you a very nice AC and DPS (heh) build. And it's fun. The 12 CON can be made up for with Toughness and enh. Plus you dont get hit that much anyway. Stay Pure, for sure.

Feats the usual, TWF chain, PA, Toughness, Finesse, Dodge. Stunning fist and/or blow.

WF also get an enh line to improve DC on stunning blow, rumor has it that it might improve Stunning Fist as well. Having tested that yet though.

Have FUN!
WF are the coolest looking Monks around. Don't let a -1 Stat modifier (those 4 build points) stop you. It's just not that bad.

Not to **** in your cornflakes or anything but....

Your End Game stats DEX Based:

STR 22 (14 Base +6 item +2 Tome)
DEX 29 (16 Base +6 item +2 Tome +5 Levels)
CON 22 (12 Base +6 item +2 Tome +2 Warforged)
INT 8
WIS 25 (14 Base +6 item +2 Tome +3 Monk)
CHA 6

Same toon STR Based:

STR 30 (17 Base +6 item +2 Tome +5 Levels)
DEX 23 (15 Base +6 item +2 Tome)
CON 23 (13 Base +6 item +2 Tome +2 Warforged)
INT 8
WIS 24 (13 Base +6 item +2 Tome +3 Monk)
CHA 6

DEX Based Gets a +9 To Hit Bonus using Weapon Finesse.
Subtract 8 For power attack, for a total of +1 To Hit and +14 to damage counting STR

STR Based Get a +10 To Hit Bonus with out using Weapon Finesse (saves a feat)
Subtract 8 for power attack, for a total of +2 To Hit and +18 to damage counting STR

DEX Based has +3 AC and +3 Reflex over STR Based

Results of a DPS Comparison Between the two

Basically by going DEX based and using PA as your damage source you will be doing less DPS then a STR based no matter how hard you try. Not to mention that a STR based gets more benefit from things like RAGE and BULL STR. By increasing a STR based toons STR more, BOTH the To HIT and the DAMAGE will go up, while by increasing the STR of a DEX based weapon finesse toon, only your damage will go up, not your to hit.

Still, if the additional AC and Reflex saves are worth the hit to DPS to you, then thats your choice. I myself have a STR based WF Monk who started with the exact stats I posted above. I have a standing unbuffed AC of 51 at level 20, which is a "decent" AC to have. With Barks, Haste, Shield Clicky, Bard Song, Paladin Aura, etc.. it easily hits the high 60's.

However like I told the original poster, it REQUIRES the 32PT build and stat tomes. The toon would be pretty weak if it was a 28PT build and didn't make heavy use of tomes from level 1.

[Aerendil]

^^ Actually, I'd argue that Warforged are the only Monks that can get away with Finesse builds and still do decent damage, due to having such a great Power Attack (-8 / +8). That's the equivalent of +16 STR.
In other words, that extra +3 dmg from PA means a Warforged will be the equivalent of any other race with the same starting Str that put their level up points into Str. And the Warforged can instead put those points into something else, such as Dex, for a +3 AC/reflex save, or Wis for +3 AC/will save/finishers, SF, and QP DC.

But let's break the damage down for the base WF Monk damage:

+8 dmg from PA;
+5 dmg from weapon enchantment;
+7 dmg from strength, assuming a starting Str of 14 with no level up points (+6 item + 2 tome + 2 exceptional = 24 STR at endgame);
==
+20 dmg from just that. Not bad at all.

Throw in buffs such as Good Hope, Inspire Courage, and so on, and you're at over +30 dmg per fist, at grandmaster wind haste speed. Having an 18 Con at endgame base (16 + 2 tome) also ensures you can throw out an extra +12 dmg from Strike of the Enduring IV as often as you can, which is another huge boost to dps.

So in the end - the extra +2 or 3 dmg from level ups into Str shouldn't make or break the build.
What will, however, is a low AC from a low Dex/Wis and no stunning fist/quivering palm DC of note. That's the only thing that's held me back from making a WF Monk thus far, actually.

[Xionanx]

^^ Actually, I'd argue that Warforged are the only Monks that can get away with Finesse builds and still do decent damage, due to having such a great Power Attack (-8 / +8). That's the equivalent of +16 STR.
In other words, that extra +3 dmg from PA means a Warforged will be the equivalent of any other race with the same starting Str that put their level up points into Str. And the Warforged can instead put those points into something else, such as Dex, for a +3 AC/reflex save, or Wis for +3 AC/will save/finishers, SF, and QP DC.

But let's break the damage down for the base WF Monk damage:

+8 dmg from PA;
+5 dmg from weapon enchantment;
+7 dmg from strength, assuming a starting Str of 14 with no level up points (+6 item + 2 tome + 2 exceptional = 24 STR at endgame);
==
+20 dmg from just that. Not bad at all.

Throw in buffs such as Good Hope, Inspire Courage, and so on, and you're at over +30 dmg per fist, at grandmaster wind haste speed. Having an 18 Con at endgame base (16 + 2 tome) also ensures you can throw out an extra +12 dmg from Strike of the Enduring IV as often as you can, which is another huge boost to dps.

So in the end - the extra +2 or 3 dmg from level ups into Str shouldn't make or break the build.
What will, however, is a low AC from a low Dex/Wis and no stunning fist/quivering palm DC of note. That's the only thing that's held me back from making a WF Monk thus far, actually.

As I stated in my example above, a WF monk would be better off STR based and you only loose out on 3 AC buy going STR.

When it comes to special attack DC's your trading off of one stat to raise another. There aren't a lot of stats to trade off of on a monk as ALL except INT and CHA are usefull.

Taking the WF stats for a STR based I posted above, you could lower your STR to 15 and increase your WIS to 15. So your loosing +1 To Hit and +1 To Damage for +1 To AC +1 to Will Saves and +1 To the DC of your stunning fist/quivering palm.

Ultimately the HIGHEST any race can start with in Wisdom is 18

18 +3 Monk +6 Item +3 Tome = 30 or +10 DC
13 +3 Monk +6 Item +3 Tome = 25 or +7 DC

That means that no matter what race I choose, I could only ever get my Quivering Palm/Stunning Fist DC to be 3 higher then a WF who started with a 13 Wisdom. Do those 3 PT's make a huge difference? What did you sacrifice to get that 18 Wisdom to start with?

A halfling who decided to MAX out both DEX and WIS using a 32PT buy would have the following stats:

STR 6
DEX 20
CON 8
INT 8
WIS 18
CHA 8

Compared to the STR based WF

STR 17
DEX 15
CON 13
INT 8
WIS 13
CHA 8

Assuming all gear and tomes are equal, the Halfling would only have 7 More AC over the WF at level 20. But at what cost? Much lower damage? Laughable HP's? No Earth or Fire Stances?

Personally I'll reiterate what I've said before in other threads and what I've been preaching for a while now. STR based Monk is currently the BEST option for monks. I also believe that a LOT of the Monk hate we see in game is directly related to the number of WIS/DEX based monks out there who simply cant deliver in the DPS department and dont have any REAL advantage to show for it.

There are 2 types of Monsters in this game, Trash and Bosses. Anyone can kill trash effectively with a Vorpal/Banisher/Disrupter/WoP/etc. But when it comes time to kill Bossess we NEED maximum DPS. This is where stunning fist and quivering palm ceases being usefull and suddenly its apparent you aren't pulling your wieght in the DPS department.

I know this to be true because even WITH my STR based WF Monk using +8 Power Attack and +5 Holy Handwraps i'm only doing 24-44 a hit +2d6 Holy against end game bossess. Once you factor in thier DR my DPS is pitifull against them compared to the rest of the party wielding Greensteel. I would hate to see even less damage due to being a WIS or DEX based.

Here's hoping I'll get some Monk rings so I can add Good Burst and Shocking Burst to them for 24-44 +2d6 Holy +1D6 Good +1D6 Shock on every hit. That will help some.

[Aerendil]

Xio - a couple of quick comments:

1) you're min-maxing with your extreme examples, which is neither possible, nor plausible. Monks should, and often do, NEVER min-max. It's common knowledge that's a bad move. But my point is that, let's say we have a 16 starting WIS on a Human Monk (not unreasonable) that focuses level-ups in WIS instead of STR. +6 item + 3 monk levels + 5 level ups + 1 human versatility + 3 tome = 34 WIS. This build will also qualify for grandmaster water stance whereas you would not, granting a further +4 Wis if they use the stance. So that's 38 WIS. Throw in +2 exceptional WIS on gear, and he/she is now at 40 WIS. And that's without min/maxing starting stats.
That's about +16 WIS, or +8DC, higher than your build. That's HUGE.
It's also +8 AC, which is significant. That could mean the difference between getting hit and not getting hit. Easily.

2) I agree wholeheartedly that we're lacking in the dps department, and a big part of that is the 10-12 STR finesse monks running around. I won't argue that at all. In fact, I'm generally against anything under a 14 starting STR for Monks.
However, I think 99.99% of our problems stem from the fact that (a) we have no greensteel, making other classes jump ahead in the dps parses compared to us with their superweapons; (b) our centering weapons all have very poor crit ranges / multipliers, meaning on an average parse, most other classes will pull ahead; and (c) transmuting handwraps are VERY hard to come by, so on raid bosses that means other classes can easily bypass DR, whereas we have to punch through it, negating anywhere from 50% to 75+% of our dps. Again, a HUGE problem. And neither (a), (b) nor (c) are a direct result of low strength. They're simply problems inherent in the Monk class, and Monk weaponry.
The Mod 9 rings seem to have helped things somewhat, and Monks across the game are eagerly searching for these transmuting handwraps... so we'll see how that goes I guess.
My guess is that with these rings and transmuting handwraps, our dps will increase exponentially on raid mobs.

3) 99% of the game *is* trash mobs, in which case Stunning Fist / Quivering Palm are amazing tools to have. They're generally considered the best Monk tools we have. Also, a stunned mob = auto-crits, so you have to factor that in too with your parses. Even a 12 Str Monk who's laying down a flurry of auto-crits on a mob is going to have impressive dps, possibly even higher than your 30 Str Monk who can't stun that monster. Additionally, a stunned monster doesn't fight back, so the WIS monk will also take far less damage overall. And it helps the team overall as well, as they can very quickly assist in dispatching the stunned monster with bane weaponry.


*edit* - one further dps increase to Monks may be the eventual fix to Weighted weaponry.
If/when that eventually adds to our Stunning Fist DC, you may see a lot more Monks going Str-based and/or putting level ups into Str.
Another change may be the weapon ki: longsword feat implementation, in which case Monks will focus on Str/Dex/Con.
But for fists? I still stand by my level ups -> Wis route. You need a good DC for it to land, as like most spell DCs in the game, it's an all-or-nothing scenerio.

[Xionanx]

1. I Min-Maxed my halfling example to the extreme to make a point, lets take your example of dumping all level up points into Wisdom with an exceptional wisdom item ect. Like I stated before, assuming ALL GEAR is equal, it will still only be 7AC better then the WF and your still sacrificing on your other stats to achieve it.

Human WIS Based:
STR 23 (14 Base +6 Item +3 Tome)
DEX 26 (16 Base +6 Item +3 Tome +1 Human)
CON 23 (14 Base +6 Item +3 Tome)
INT 10 (8 Base +2 Tome)
WIS 37 (16 Base +6 Item +5 Levels +3 Exceptional +3 Tome +1 Human +3 Monk)
CHA 10 (8 Base +2 Tome)
=====================
8 AC from DEX
13 AC from Wisdom
21 Total AC Bonus

Warforged STR Based:
STR 34 (17 Base +6 item +3 Tome +5 Levels +3 Exceptional)
DEX 24 (15 Base +6 item +3 Tome)
CON 24 (13 Base +6 item +3 Tome +2 Warforged)
INT 10 (8 Base +2 Tome)
WIS 25 (13 Base +6 item +3 Tome +3 Monk)
CHA 8 (6 Base +2 Tome)
======================
7 AC from DEX
7 AC From Wisdom
14 Total AC Bonus

Thats only a difference of 7 AC . Yes your stunning fist and quivering palm DC's will be better, buy your overall +To Hit and Damage will be lower. I can Weaken and Enfeeble now for Auto Crits, I can use Wieghter Handwraps for Auto-Crits, and I bust out WoP Kama's for Auto Crits.. Making stunning fist less usefull all around. And when I DO crit my crits will be doing a lot more damage as the STR based does a minimum of +6 more damage per swing over the wisdom based monk. Thats +12 on a crit.

2. Yes, monks get boned hardcore becuase of lack of greensteel. Rings IMO are a joke compared to what can be aquired on Greensteel weapons, and turbine needs to fix this disparity soon. Monk struggle for every little DPS gain they can get and its a **** shame turbine refuses to even attempt to acknowledge that this is directly related to the lack of greensteel and has made no attempt to even speculate if monks will EVER have access to greensteel.

3. See what I stated above about other means to get the mob to auto crit status! Stunning fist is not that usefull IMO.

Edited to fix my oversight of +3 Monk wisdom OH:

[Trillea]

I bust out WoP Kama's for Auto Crits..

HAhahahahahahaha!

I will give you all the plat and larges I have if you have 2 of these...

[Xionanx]

TWO WoP's no, TWO wounders yes. It was just an example of how it can be done, not a statement of gear I actually own

[Hirosue]

interesting debate from xionanx and aerendil. both paths have their good/bad points. im after a 28 pt wf build also and now i really cannt decide lol.