wow...YOU GUYS ARE MISLEADING PEOPLE

[Aspenor]

In DDO? They followed the PnP rules.

In PnP? I'm not familiar enough with the class to know why they would want to tone it down.

Because FvS get other benefits that would make a single casting stat too powerful. Weapon spec, wings, and the highest save possible save progression in all three stats like a monk.

It would be like giving a cleric, or wizard, all of the above, it would be stupid.

[bandyman1]

12 base + 3 tome + 6 enhancements = 21 ??
(yeah that's human, but it doesn't matter)

How're you getting 6 AD???

Adaptability gives you 1, and I assume FvS can get 3, so; Where are you getting the other 2?

Note; I haven't messed with FvS at all. I'm seriously asking.

[Weylan]

How're you getting 6 AD???

Adaptability gives you 1, and I assume FvS can get 3, so; Where are you getting the other 2?

Note; I haven't messed with FvS at all. I'm seriously asking.

Maybe he meant a +6 item? Otherwise I don't see it either - you're right about the +1 Adaptability and +3 FvS Cha.

[Vibomatic]

I started with a 10 CHA for a caster, does that make me gimp?

[nbhs275]

Maybe he meant a +6 item? Otherwise I don't see it either - you're right about the +1 Adaptability and +3 FvS Cha.

capstone is +2 cha. Which means a 20 human FvS is perfectly safe with a 10 base.

[BlackRage]

That is just retarted.

There is something ******** about this thread... like starting with a CHA that high

[Vibomatic]

There is something ******** about this thread... like starting with a CHA that high

That is the truth, I'm going 18 FvS/2 monk and started with 18 WIS and 10 CHA, level 1 would be hard if I didnt have a +1 CHA item, but after I popped a +2 CHA tome its smooth sailing.

[Letrii]

<looks at her 21 cha at level 3>

[cm2_supernova]

That is the truth, I'm going 18 FvS/2 monk and started with 18 WIS and 10 CHA, level 1 would be hard if I didnt have a +1 CHA item, but after I popped a +2 CHA tome its smooth sailing.

You can actually get +1 Cha ML 1 items...and if all else fails level 2 brings the +1 Cha enhancment.

Personally however, I think 12 Cha is the way to go for a FvS. With the enhancements and a +1 tome you can get to a 16 which will still leave you with level 6 spells (MCLW, MCMW, Heal, BB) so even if you get disjunctioned it doesnt impair your character that much.

[bandyman1]

capstone is +2 cha.

Thanks for the clarification. I haven't messed with FvS at all. Like I said, I haven't even taken a look at the class.

[cypan41]

Just fyi. I created a min/max casting FS for the fun of it.
He will have 232 more spell points come 20 as compared to a FS who has a 20 cha.

That is not that many points if you are creating a fighting/casting FS. I wouldn't suggest it at all for those types. But an extra 232 sp for a caster is always nice.

[nbhs275]

Just fyi. I created a min/max casting FS for the fun of it.
He will have 232 more spell points come 20 as compared to a FS who has a 20 cha.

That is not that many points if you are creating a fighting/casting FS. I wouldn't suggest it at all for those types. But an extra 232 sp for a caster is always nice.

and how much did you miss out on, for those 200 sp?

[esoitl]

The difference 18 base Cha and 12 base Cha is 87 SPs by level 20. It's not worth the additional creations points.

I didn't believe statements like this until I made a few test builds and then played around with the character generator.
I don't know exactly how the FvS SP pool is calculated but CHA is of little relevance, plus all the items giving boosts makes the pool still more than ample.


My build put into the character generator still put out over 2k SP at level 20. That is with a base of 12 CHA and only enhancements and a +3 tome(no level ups). Considering that still leaves a +6 CHA item, a Green Steel SP item, a SP item on top of that(Wiz VI is relatively common and I'm sure there will be better to come) and the option of taking an additional +2 ex CHA on a Green Steel item....

I'd say a 12 CHA is safe and if you don't believe it, put it into the CG and see for yourself.

[cypan41]

Nbhs asked what I missed out on for the 200 + spell points.
Well as a caster build, I'd say not much.

With the high hp *8 per lvl* and toughness. My caster will end up with 380 hps. Which is fine for a caster build. More than my Sorcs for sure. And since I'm playing him like a sorc, I really don't forsee any problems.

[adamyarbough]

All of this item and tome talk for getting Charisma higher is fine for those of you in servers where you already have your 32 builds unlocked and shared bank accounts. But for those of us that started on Cannith I think getting +6 cha from items isnt all that plausible for a long while.

[DemonMage]

+6s are not impossible at level 13 to get as a drop. Or you could take a +5 and use a +1 tome (buy it from the DDStore if you care that much).

12 + 2 enhance = 14 + 1 tome = 15 + 4 item = 19, the minimum you need at 18 to cast your 9th level spell. That's not hard on any server.

[Rrend]

Wisdom is the real question.
And IMO you have to decide right away to either max it out or not worry about it and just go with spells that don't have save DCs to worry about.

This is the only real decision that has to be made at creation... the rest is <yawn> not so interesting.

[Rrend]

Nbhs asked what I missed out on for the 200 + spell points.
Well as a caster build, I'd say not much.

With the high hp *8 per lvl* and toughness. My caster will end up with 380 hps. Which is fine for a caster build. More than my Sorcs for sure. And since I'm playing him like a sorc, I really don't forsee any problems.

Amen brother. This toon may actually replace my 28pt sorc main that I've had since Beta in February of 2005.

[Weylan]

Personally however, I think 12 Cha is the way to go for a FvS. With the enhancements and a +1 tome you can get to a 16 which will still leave you with level 6 spells (MCLW, MCMW, Heal, BB) so even if you get disjunctioned it doesnt impair your character that much.

12 Cha Base + 1 Level* + 3 Enhancement + 2 Tome + 2 Capstone = 20

*If making a casting-focused FvS, you probably want your Wisdom at 18. FvS only get 2 points of Wisdom in enhancements, so there's little point in putting all 5 points from levels into it. 4 points and 2 enhancement still gets you 24 base Wis, leaving 1 point to level out Charisma.

Disregard this for Humans and their Adaptability.

[Uska]

12 Cha Base + 1 Level* + 3 Enhancement + 2 Tome + 2 Capstone = 20

*If making a casting-focused FvS, you probably want your Wisdom at 18. FvS only get 2 points of Wisdom in enhancements, so there's little point in putting all 5 points from levels into it. 4 points and 2 enhancement still gets you 24 base Wis, leaving 1 point to level out Charisma.

Disregard this for Humans and their Adaptability.

Umm you can get exceptional wis on items so having an odd number from leveling up isnt a bad thing and just a note enhanments dont count towards base on stats they do boost it but arent considered base