A Build by request: Paladin Dwarven Intimidate Defender of Syberis

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

This is a build by request. I have been asked to come up with a (preferably Pure, but 18 Pal might just have to do) Dwarven Paladin with Intimidate and high AC... now, I do not have my usual complement of tools, so I am doing this off my head. I have also been asked to limit to 2 +2 Tomes, and no +3 Tomes, but any Greensteel or existing Raid Loot.


NOTE: This is a placeholder until I have time to really think it through!

NOTE: I have not incorporated the new set items, as I have not seen all of them yet

Dwarven Paladin 18 / ??? 2 (Fighter, Rogue, Monk all are contenders)

STR: 15 + 5 (Levels) + 2 (Tome) + 6 (Item) = 28 (+9)
DEX: 13 + 1 (Tome) + 6 (Item) = 20 (+5)
CON: 13 + 1 (Tome) + 2 (Dwarf) + 6 (Item) = 22 (+6)
INT: 13 + 1 (Tome) = 14 (+2)
WIS: 9 + 1 (Tome) + 6 (Item) = 16 (+3)
CHA: 14 + 2 (Tome) + 2 (Paladin) + 6 (Item) = 24 (+7)

HP:
20 - HD
200 - Pal 20 Base
120 - Con Bonus
22 - Toughness
30 - Dwarven Toughness 3
30 - Paladin Toughness 3
10 - DV
45 - GS Helm
30 - GFL
-----------------------------
507 HP / 547 in DoS Defensive Stance

AC:
10 - Base
15 - DT Full Plate
9 - Levik's Defender
5 - Protection +5
1 - Dodge Feat
3 - Chattering Ring
5 - Paladin Aura
5 - Levik's Tier 3 Set (Insight)
5 - Combat Expertise
1 - DoS Aura
4 - DoS Defensive Stance
2 - Rituals
----------------------------------
70 - BAC
----------------------------------
5 - Ranger's Barkskin
4 - Bard Song
2 - Recitation
1 - Haste
----------------------------------
82 - Raid Buffed AC

Intimidate:
23 - Ranks
15 - Item
2 - Bullheaded
3 - SF: Intimidate
7 - CHA
2 - Head of Good Fortune
4 - GH
6 - GS Item
-------------------------------
62 Intimidate

UMD:
12 - Ranks
7 - CHA
5 - Seven Fingered Gloves
4 - GH
6 - GS Item
2 - Head of Good Fortune
-----------------------------------
36 UMD


Ok, a decent start... I need to work it out better, but I wanted to get my thoughts down on paper...

Suggestions, as always, are welcome.

-Dworkin

[Dexxaan]

Nice Base.

Dwarven Paladins FTW. (And people would laugh at the thought of em a few mods back )

The real brain twister for you is going to be looking at available named loot available, GreenSteel Items to be crafted, Trinkets, and Action Point Expenditures..... that will allow you to claim and maintain those HP, Intimidate, UMD, Skills & Armor Class #`s posted.

BTW: What feats are you planning on?

Just my 2 Cp.

[sephiroth1084]

I'd say drop that point from Wis and add it to Con or Dex--Con for more HP (obviously) or Dex so you can fill out your armor and tower shield a bit more.

Remember, achievable max Dex in DT armor:
1
+2 from Defender
+1-3 from Dwarf
+2 from Fighter Armor Mastery II (belt)
____
6 to 9

And mithral tower:
4
+3 from Defender
___
7

So, hitting a 24 Dex will net you a little more AC if you're bothering with any of that.

Actually, looking at it now, I think you left out some AC: I don't see Dex at all, and doesn't the DT FP grant 18 base AC? 8 for FP, +5 enhancement, +5 DT = 18.

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

Ok, a few tweaks, now that I am home, and have a little more time...

I still have 1 open Feat.. and I am not sure if SM/ISM is the right thing for the 2 Fighter Bonus Feats... but here is pass #2 at the build:

And yes,I have not figured out the AP's yet either.

NOTE: AC, UMD, Intimidate, HP are all assuming one single equipment loadout (listed below). UMD gives base, and then modified to put on 7-Fingered Gloves. But all numbers are assuming default loadout.


Level 20 Dwarf
18 Paladin / 2 Fighter

STR: 15 + 5 (Levels) + 2 (Tome) + 6 (Item) = 28 (+9)
DEX: 14 + 2 (Tome) + 6 (Item) = 22 (+6)
CON: 15 + 1 (Tome) + 2 (Dwarf) + 6 (Item) = 24 (+7)
INT: 11 + 2 (Tome) = 13 (+1)
WIS: 8 + = 1 (Tome) + 6 (Item) = 15 (+2)
CHA: 14 + 2 (Tome) + 2 (Paladin) + 6 (Item) = 24 (+7)


Feats: (in No Particular Order)
-------------------------------------
Toughness
Combat Expertise
Toughness
Improved Critical
Bullheaded
Skill Focus: Intimidate
???

(Fighter 1) Shield Mastery
(Fighter 2) Improved Shield Mastery
-------------------------------------


Saves:
-------------------------------------
11 / 6 / 6 - Pal 18 Base
3 / 0 / 0 / - Fgt 2 Base
7 / 6 / 2 - Stat Mods
7 / 7 / 7 - Divine Grace
5 / 5 / 5 - Resistance +5
1 / 1 / 1 - Alchemical
2 / 2 / 2 - Head of Good Fortune
4 / 4 / 4 - Greater Heroism
-------------------------------------
40 / 31 / 27 - Buffed



Hit Points:
-------------------------------------
20 - Heroic Durability
180 - Paladin 18 Base
20 - Fighter 2 Base
140 - CON Bonus
22 - Toughness
30 - Paladin Toughness III
30 - Dwarven Toughness III
10 - Draconic Vitality
45 - Green Steel
30 - Greater False Life
-------------------------------------
527 HP
-------------------------------------
40 - DoS II Defensive Stance CON Bonus
-------------------------------------
567 Total HP


Intimidate:
-------------------------------------
23 - Ranks
15 - Item
7 - CHA
3 - Skill Focus: Intimidate
2 - Bullheaded
2 - Head of Good Fortune
6 - Green Steel Item
4 - Greater Heroism
-------------------------------------
62 Intimidate


UMD:
-------------------------------------
12 - Ranks
7 - CHA
2 - Head of Good Fortune
6 - Green Steel Item
4 - Greater Heroism
-------------------------------------
31 UMD Standing
-------------------------------------
5 - Seven-Fingered Gloves
-------------------------------------
36 UMD with UMD Items


AC:
-------------------------------------
10 - Base
15 - Dragontouched Full Plate - MDB: 1 (Base) + 2 (DoS III) + 3 (DAM III) = 6
9 - +5 MTS / Levik's Defender
6 - Dexterity
2 - Alchemical
5 - Protection +5
1 - Dodge Feat
3 - Chattering (Ring/DT)
2 - Chaosguarde
4 - Insight (GS/DT)
5 - Combat Expertise
5 - Paladin Aura
1 - DoS III Aura Bonus
-------------------------------------
68 Normal BAC
-------------------------------------
4 - DoS III Defensive Stance
-------------------------------------
72 BAC
-------------------------------------
1 - Haste
5 - Ranger's Barkskin
2 - Recitation
4 - Bard Song
-------------------------------------
84 Raid-Buffed AC




Items:
-------------------------------------
Goggles: Existential Stalemate II - +45 HP, +4 Con/+2 Str Skills, +10 Dip/Haggle, +6 Wis, Concordant Opposition (Pos/Neg/Pos+Neg Escalation Material)
Helm: +15 Intimidate
Necklace: Lightning II Guard - Wizardry VI, +50 SP, +100 SP, +6 Cha Skills, Lightning Strike
Trinket: Head of Good Fortune
Cloak: +6 Charisma
Belt: Belt of the Defenders of Siberys (+6 Con, GFL)
Gloves: +6 DEX
Boots: Kundarak Delving Boots / 30% Striding
Bracers: Chaosguarde
Ring: Chattering Ring
Ring: Defender of Siberys Ring (+6 STR?, Exceptional ??? +1, +2 AC Set Bonus)
Armor: Dragontouched Full Plate (Resistance +5 / Protection +5 / +4 Insight)
Shield: +5 Mithral Tower Shield / Levik's Defender
Weapon: Mineral II Dwarven Axe


Of course, Chattering could go to DT Armor from Ring, +4 Insight to GS Weapon, thus freeing up a Ring slot

[Borror0]

Bullheaded
Skill Focus: Intimidate
???

(Fighter 1) Shield Mastery
(Fighter 2) Improved Shield Mastery

Get GTHF or GTWF before taking any of these.

[Dworkin_of_Amber]

Get GTHF or GTWF before taking any of these.

On an Intimidate DoS build designed for SnB?

[Borror0]

On an Intimidate DoS build designed for SnB?

As you probably know, there are two inherent issues with S&B intmitanks.

First of all, there needs to be a damage input high enough so that the added survivability we offer matters and we need to be able to prevent it. It's quite possible for an intimitank to not be able to successfully mitigate the damage (lots of elemental damage, beholder, insanely high to-hits), unable to grab aggro (Harry, flesh golem) or not have a significant amount of damage to mitigate (portals, easy fights). In those situations, it's preferable to switch to a better DPS mode which Power Attack and GTWF/GTHF provide.

Secondly, we don't stack. That is, there is usually no incentives to have two of us in one party or raid as the main advantage we have (damage mitigation) can usually be provide by one tank - other intimitanks being only in his way while dealing subpar DPS. I have not run all the new content, and it's possible that there are such instances, but, from what I heard, it does not look that way. Since there are very few advantages to have to intimitanks that way, being able to switch to a better DPS mode means that you have an easier time finding groups or that you will contribute more in groups with two intimitanks as you can adapt.

I think that covers the need for GTHF/GTWF.

As to why prioritize them over SM and the Intimidate feats, the reasons are simple. Shield Masteries are fairly weak feats. It's not a huge loss if you drop them. That I don't think you disagree on since you said "I am not sure if SM/ISM is the right thing for the 2 Fighter Bonus Feats". On the other hand, Bullheaded and Skill Focus: Intimidate are good feats but I question whether or not they will really help. I think we both agree that Defensive stance and Divine Righteousness is where it's at for boss aggro, and that the DCs are probably to high for you to reach anyhow. If your Intimidate score is enough to catch all the trash mobs, why bother with the feats?

Note: I have not tested the DCs so this is still mostly theorycrafting.

[Angelus_dead]

As to why prioritize them over SM and the Intimidate feats, the reasons are simple.

An additional way to look at it is to help you level. The offensive feats will kill the mobs at level 1-16 quicker, and get you to the point where they hit hard enough to care about blocking DR and intimidate checks.

[Assio]

As you probably know, there are two inherent issues with S&B intmitanks.

It's quite possible for an intimitank to not be able ... to grab aggro (Harry, flesh golem)

Has anyone considered the possibility of using cleave + Hate generation?

30% Leviks Set
100% Divine Righteousness
25% Defender 2
200% Defender 3 stance
15% Defender Set
----------
???%

It seems as if it would work well in conjunction with Intimidate to hold aggro, especially if cleaving often

[TechNoFear]

+2 from Fighter Armor Mastery II (belt).

If you wear the Daggertooth Belt you will not be able to wear the DoS set item belt (which is better).

[Twerpp]

GTHF or GTWF is too expensive on a pally IMO, unless you get the feats from 2 fighter or 2 monk.

[Borror0]

GTHF or GTWF is too expensive on a pally IMO, unless you get the feats from 2 fighter or 2 monk.

Which is why 18p/2f > 19p/1f > 20p.

Oh, and :

Level 20 Dwarf
18 Paladin / 2 Fighter

[sephiroth1084]

Get GTHF or GTWF before taking any of these.

Decided to take your suggestion, Borr, and dropped weapon focus at 18 to pick up THF and ITHF (GTHF will wait until I hit fighter 6 at level 20). I'm liking the increased DPS when I don't need the AC, though I'm having a lot of difficulty finding a decent two-hander to wield. Hoping to avoid having to craft a mineral II, and I'm not going to get more 4th level spells, so Holy Sword seems out of the quest when compared with Zeal.

Toughness
Combat Expertise
Toughness
Improved Critical
Bullheaded
Skill Focus: Intimidate
???

(Fighter 1) Shield Mastery
(Fighter 2) Improved Shield Mastery/quote]I'd not take 2 Toughness feats--you just don't have enough feats for that nonsense. I'd probably also drop Bullheaded as it won't be necessary really.

On my 16/4 build, I've got Power Attack (GET THIS!), Imp. Crit, Combat Exp., Toughness, Improved Trip (still somewhat useful in the new content w/ a 30 Str and only 1 enhancement beefing up the DC), Extend (really recommend this, though probably not a true necessity), Skill Focus: Intim, and Dodge (every little bit counts).

On an Intimidate DoS build designed for SnB?

Oh ****! I had been figuring that in on the new 18/2 Pal/Fighter human I've been working on... This is where dwarves really shine. Now I'm not sure what to do with that guy; whether I should continue leveling him, since Dex won't come through for AC at all.

Actually, DoS III will bump the DT plate up to a MD of 3, so I'll get some. Means I won't need a good tome for Dex at least.Now I remember why I originally went dwarf for my tank.

[Borror0]

I'm not going to get more 4th level spells, so Holy Sword seems out of the quest when compared with Zeal.

You will have less than 16 paladin levels?

On my 16/4 build, I've got Power Attack (GET THIS!), Imp. Crit, Combat Exp., Toughness, Improved Trip (still somewhat useful in the new content w/ a 30 Str and only 1 enhancement beefing up the DC), Extend (really recommend this, though probably not a true necessity), Skill Focus: Intim, and Dodge (every little bit counts).

On a 18/2 build, I would probably say to grab:
1.Toughness
3. Dodge
6. Combat Expertise
9. Improved Critical
12. Power Attack
15. Extend
18. GTHF/GTWF

fighter: THF/TWF
fighter: ITHF/ITWF

Drop Dodge for SF:Intimidate if +3 Intimidate happens to make a difference for that build (but I doubt it).

Oh, and add khopesh if human.

[sephiroth1084]

You will have less than 16 paladin levels?

Ferrumrym is going to end up at 14/6--took 4 fighter levels before I knew about the lvl 18 PrEs and such. Could have anticipated maybe, but it seemed a good idea at the time. I could go 16/4 at this point, but do you think access to Holy Sword would be better than a bonus feat, +1 Str and Stalwart Defender I?

18. GTHF/GTWF

How big an increase in DPS does GTHF grant? I'll be able to afford it on my guy without dropping anything if I grab the 2 more levels of fighter, but for an 18/2 I might prefer Improved Trip, since taking a caster out of a fight immediately makes a lot of encounters much much easier. Wish we'd be able to craft Vertigo onto our GS stuff... or that it'd appear on shields.

Plus, I prefer having more stuff to do in a fight--oddly, I've come to enjoy hitting a lot of buttons in fights.

[Borror0]

I have an hatred for using Trip, so for me the choice is a no brainer. Honestly, you're a paladin, do you really want another button to push? Ok, well, you do but I don't think others will. There's plenty of buttons to press to keep our fingers busy.

Regarding GTHF, I don't know. I know that it's decent but I'm not sure how good, and how it had changed with M9.

[sephiroth1084]

I have an hatred for using Trip, so for me the choice is a no brainer. Honestly, you're a paladin, do you really want another button to push? Ok, well, you do but I don't think others will. There's plenty of buttons to press to keep our fingers busy.

Regarding GTHF, I don't know. I know that it's decent but I'm not sure how good, and how it had changed with M9.

I probably wouldn't either if I were using a mouse and keyboard, but one of the problems I had with playing a barbarian was that I had nothing to do in fights but stand there and swing, which was dull.

I like cycling smite, divine sacrifice, trip and intimidate, and sort of like the action of divine favor, zeal, CE, divine might, though I really dislike the loss of DPS. -_-

[BlackRage]

14/6 is a fine split.

Pal14 gets you Zeal AND Holy Sword - go to a tavern and swap in HS then run to an instance a craft them. Switch back to Zeal for questing...

THF is worthwhile; even more so now given the increased glancing blows.

[sephiroth1084]

14/6 is a fine split.

Pal14 gets you Zeal AND Holy Sword - go to a tavern and swap in HS then run to an instance a craft them. Switch back to Zeal for questing...

THF is worthwhile; even more so now given the increased glancing blows.

What's the duration on Holy Sword? Is it just for as long as you're in a quest? Also, what is its current functionality? I know that it was changed, but the in-game description hasn't caught up. I know that some people use them in the Shroud...do they act as silver in addition to cold iron, or was there a different component to buy somewhere?

I had been thinking that I might just do as you suggest: prep HS, make one upon entering, then swap to Zeal at the first opportunity.

[Borror0]

What's the duration on Holy Sword?

If I remember right, it's until you log off.

Also, what is its current functionality?

+5 Byeshk, Cold Iron, Silver, Holy Burst.

I had been thinking that I might just do as you suggest: prep HS, make one upon entering, then swap to Zeal at the first opportunity.

If it only lasts for the duration of the quest, you can be smarter than that for pre-M9 raids:

• Vision: Shrine outside, pick up HS, enter, cast HS, shrine and then swap HS for Zeal.
• Shroud: Swap HS in for part 3 and switch back to Zeal for part 4.

No idea if it's possible to do that with ToD.

And, it's an useless discussion if Holy Sword is only destroyed on log off (which I think it is).