Casters Are Dead.

[sephiroth1084]

I don't think there is one ounce of truth to this reply. You don't even seem to know that your intel can reach 44 and 46 with the use of easily obtained and long lasting stat potions from an in game vendor. Please speak for yourself when commenting what casters can and cannot do. Just because you don't understand what you're doing and your caster performs poorly does not mean that all caster stink in the new content. You have obviously gimped yourself in some way, since a 42 is plenty high to land spells regularly without energy drain. You just need to use your head.

The fact that you have yet to stumble on the best spell for a caster in the battlefield really highlights your poor understanding of what it takes to perform out there.

I mentioned the stat potions in my post, which you clearly didn't read.

What spell are you alluding to then? What are you landing frequently? Check your attitude. I'm not alone in lamenting the emasculating of casters in Mod 9.

I've tried a fairly wide variety of my spells so far. Decided to try Trap the Soul next time I'm on.

If you're referring to Sleet Storm, I tried it, but am not too thrilled: if someone in the party dies, they end up slipping around blind when they get raised. And devils teleport around a lot. But maybe I just haven't tried it enough to really enjoy it.

[Hendrik]

Casters did get nerfed. And HARD! Dance? Stone? Charm?

*snip*

I tried denying it. I tried playing through it. But having reached level 20, and picked up 4 more Int, I can safely say that casters got hit something fierce with the nerf bat.

But you do understand we are on that Plane? And by 'nerfed' you mean not as effective as we were while on own own home Plane, yes.

So, un-nerf yourself and don't do any Planar travel. Stick to Stormreach and surrounding area's where you are not 'nerfed' by planar effects. Or you can wait for the big un-nerf of Dreaming Dark where hopefully we will not be Outsiders and have natural environmental effects to worry about.

[Thriand]

I don't think there is one ounce of truth to this reply. You don't even seem to know that your intel can reach 44 and 46 with the use of easily obtained and long lasting stat potions from an in game vendor. Please speak for yourself when commenting what casters can and cannot do. Just because you don't understand what you're doing and your caster performs poorly does not mean that all caster stink in the new content. You have obviously gimped yourself in some way, since a 42 is plenty high to land spells regularly without energy drain. You just need to use your head.

The fact that you have yet to stumble on the best spell for a caster in the battlefield really highlights your poor understanding of what it takes to perform out there.

If the end game vendor you are referring to is the paranoid alchemist you get to use for yugaloth favor then you should know that the +2 int pot comes with the heavy risk of -50% fortification, with as hard as the mobs in the new content hit I don't think it would be worth giving them the chance to 1 shot you.

However if you where referring to the DDO store as the "in game vendor" then so far I can tell no penalty with those pots, but running around with those on would surely get expensive.

[Samadhi]

I mentioned the stat potions in my post, which you clearly didn't read.

What spell are you alluding to then? What are you landing frequently? Check your attitude.

Good questions Seph - there are some folks it is just better not to argue with, though. It is a condition sometimes caused by an inability to distinguish between level of abstraction. You want a concrete example; and instead are given "Just because you don't understand what you're doing and your caster performs poorly does not mean that all caster stink in the new content. You have obviously gimped yourself in some way, since a 42 is plenty high to land spells regularly without energy drain. You just need to use your head."

This phrase is obviously meaningless to most readers, since it still does not give any concrete examples. It is likely that the writer of statements like this cannot grasp what is going wrong - this individual lives in a world where concrete examples and higher levels of abstraction are equal and the same. (This is most often represented to intro psych students through the racism example:>one person of said group acted like ____ and it just goes to show you how all persons of said group are; there is no differentiation between the individual and higher groups they belong with). To the person thus afflicted, he really believes he is answering your question. Please note, this is not meant to be a diagnosis of any specific peoples, but merely an example of why some of our threads turn much longer than they really need to be It is just as possible that people are deliberately avoiding a rationale discussion.

More point on to your question:
On page 7 I listed a couple specifics about what I found to be using, without having to resort to the enervate everything 9 times mentality. This was done for both a conjuration and enchantment spec'd sorc. Straight up nuking isn't working horribly bad either, assuming the rest of the group is contributing enough to get to shrines quickly. If not, not. There was another poster that stated he could even get some usefulness out of Wail provided enough mobs to warrant casting it and all the foci in the world; this I have not tried personally though. If you don't' have a maxed out DC - you may want to stick with Otto's or the like - since without pretty maxed out DC's you might as well be using a vorpal (c'mon 5% auto win!!)

[Samadhi]

If the end game vendor you are referring to is the paranoid alchemist you get to use for yugaloth favor then you should know that the +2 int pot comes with the heavy risk of -50% fortification, with as hard as the mobs in the new content hit I don't think it would be worth giving them the chance to 1 shot you.

However if you where referring to the DDO store as the "in game vendor" then so far I can tell no penalty with those pots, but running around with those on would surely get expensive.

Good catch. I will be deleting all if it ever comes down to needing to spend real money to make my toon competitive through the store.

[ron_wanderer1]

Bah....just keep us hasted and zip it

[ron_wanderer1]

on a serious note i do agree casters are becoming a dying breed at endgame

[sephiroth1084]

But you do understand we are on that Plane? And by 'nerfed' you mean not as effective as we were while on own own home Plane, yes.

So, un-nerf yourself and don't do any Planar travel. Stick to Stormreach and surrounding area's where you are not 'nerfed' by planar effects. Or you can wait for the big un-nerf of Dreaming Dark where hopefully we will not be Outsiders and have natural environmental effects to worry about.

Dreaming Dark is going to be on another plane isn't it?

Whether the saves are inflated because of an environmental effect, or because of programming, the result is just as frustrating. Immunities are not a part of that effect, or shouldn't be, yet they are there nonetheless. Where does that figure into your argument?

A fight here or there that is difficult, or unfriendly to a particular class that's alright by me, but nearly all of the new content is like this (oddly, the saves in the two small quest seem much lower, as I'm landing Mass Hold with much higher frequency).

[tinyelvis]

The caster, or the sorc? The sorc, with double specialization and otherwise pimped to the nines, only using 2 or 3 spells along the lines of their specialization, can still be highly effective. The important thing to remember here - is that versatility is what doesn't work anymore - unless you consider spamming enervation variety.

Now, whether this is fun to play for you or not is much more highly subjective. Now that I got it down, I have pretty much only been playing my sorc at high level. On the other hand, I could see how many caster's might not like only throwing three spells out of their spellbook - and this a huge disadvantage to wizards particularly.

The mob saves are too high, enough so that I will not PUG out a caster spot, since only specified builds are going to be effective at other than a manasponge. The high mob saves is particularly detrimental to wizards, that can no longer rely on versatility to keep them inline with sorcs.

You definitely are a riot. You start the thread whining like your doll carriage was stolen claiming in the title of this very thread "Casters are Dead". Then go on to snivel that

at the moment, casters seem to be absolutely useless in the majority of the new content.

Over time with advice and prodding from knowledgable folks like myself which include,

its all about learning what to attack when and with which spell.

You are not going to land spells unless you bump up your DC's

If you really want to be an aggressive sorc, then you need to cut the fat out of your build. Eliminate things that don't directly improve your combat spell casting ability

you gain some experience and come to realize maybe your hysteria was a little misplaced. Maybe the sky is not gonna fall and crush your little caster doll house. Your highness then makes a grand pronouncement for the masses.

Casters are not dead, despite my initial supposition. Just wizards are

Now, after roughly 7000 folks have viewed and 170 commented over 9 pages of this thread you come out again as the expert and make the further grand pronouncements,

The important thing to remember here - is that versatility is what doesn't work anymore - unless you consider spamming enervation variety.

Samantha, I have news for you, your initial premise was wrong, your comment all thru the thread leading up to your slight change of heart are wrong. Your false statements above are....wait for it.......wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong, ... if you have been wrong so much in the past and people are still telling you that you are wrong, should you really be listening to that voice in your head that seems to impel you to add more comments to this thread? You're certainly have every right to, but look at what you are producing here. Do you think any knowledgeable person is actually taking what you say seriously. You run the risk of making a complete and utter fool of yourself.

You really have no business making these negative comments. Get some experience under your belt. I can see your frustrated. Learn how to play your toon better. Then come back with constructive accurate comments. But the important things is, don't panic. Take some time to actually read the advise that is given. We will guide you. It will be ok. Casters will be ok. In fact, they are far better off than ever before. And there is much more room for variation and versatility than before. This is just the beginning. You will see, the picture is very rosy for casters since Mod 9 came out. Now **** it, pretty please with sugar fix the capstone.

[Kalundan]

Just for reference my caster as solo'd all of the new quests in reasonable time, with little to no resources used excluding Genesis point, which I don't think a hireling can manage pulling the switches.(I have not yet attempted it)

Sins takes the longest due to having to kill so much trash. A New Invasion might be the easiest to solo, with Bastion a close second. This doesn't even take into account Weapon Shipment (which anyone can solo). Granted I carry Stealth on my Sorcerer so it's so very easy to stealth through everything and only kill when necessary. I'm sure the brute force method works, but if your using that tactic you should perhaps log in your melee toons.

[Samadhi]

You are becoming almost as fun as Leslie; thanks; I'm pretty sick and can use the cheering up

Over time with advice and prodding from knowledgable folks like myself which include

I actually kind of agree with this statement. I took and used advice from Sohryu that was useful. I don't agree that you should be included, because you never gave advice, you just berated myself and others for not knowing the game well enough without ever giving a concrete example of how to improve.... I do like to hear differing opinions, though, that's why this thread was started to be challenging. I was hoping to be proved wrong; because I have loved my casters since day 1 and didn't want to shelf them. I covered all this on page 7 I believe

<several paragraphs of insults deleted>
In fact, they are far better off than ever before. And there is much more room for variation and versatility than before.

I don't think they are far better off than before, but as "better" and "far" are grey words in terms of definition and would pretty much require their own thread, I'm happy to leave this as a matter of opinion and move on.
Variation and versatility - as far as how I build my toon, this would be correct. Whether to go conjuration, enchantment, necro focused etc. etc. are not more meaningful decisions than they used to be.
Where variation and versatility really fail, though, is in regards to in the field playing a single toon. Yes, my conjuration spec'd toon, spamming web and trapping souls as needed, is very effective. However, since those foci make such a difference, these are really the only way she can CC. Non-focused spells are better off just being avoided. This is what I meant by a loss of versatility.

Now **** it, pretty please with sugar fix the capstone.

Hard not to agree with that Peace dude.

[tinyelvis]

Just for reference my caster as solo'd all of the new quests in reasonable time, with little to no resources used excluding Genesis point, which I don't think a hireling can manage pulling the switches.(I have not yet attempted it)

Sins takes the longest due to having to kill so much trash. A New Invasion might be the easiest to solo, with Bastion a close second. This doesn't even take into account Weapon Shipment (which anyone can solo). Granted I carry Stealth on my Sorcerer so it's so very easy to stealth through everything and only kill when necessary. I'm sure the brute force method works, but if your using that tactic you should perhaps log in your melee toons.

I did not want to mention this since it seems when the designers find out that people are using ingenious methods to quickly run quests, they usually act to shut it down. But since the cat is out of the bag and without mentioning too many details,....

I have not used stealth in a long time end game. However, recently I did group with a caster who stealths a lot. We quickly stealthed thru all levels of New invasion with no alert in record time. The two of us then proceeded to pound the living **** out of the end boss. I love Mod 9. The room for and level of versatility is stellar.

Samadhi, I can be a harsh sarcastic critic. That is a character flaw. But honestly, its all in fun. If you read between the arrogant jibes, there is often useful info. All of the tips I quoted in the previous reply were my quotes from this thread.

[Kalundan]

I did not want to mention this since it seems when the designers find out that people are using ingenious methods to quickly run quests, they usually act to shut it down. But since the cat is out of the bag and without mentioning too many details,....

I have not used stealth in a long time end game. However, recently I did group with a caster who stealths a lot. We quickly stealthed thru all levels of New invasion with no alert in record time. The two of us then proceeded to pound the living **** out of the end boss. I love Mod 9. The room for and level of versatility is stellar.

I suppose that gets my goat more than anything else, how Turbine seems intent on marginalizing the usefulness of so many skills/tactics. The current state of the game reinforces the narrowing or funneling they seem intend on creating(e.g. BAB changes, DA, Scaling bugs). I wouldn't dare rate it up there with the NGE/CE (not gonna delve into these here), but it remains on the fringe of these hasty changes that stifle diversity and creativity.

I can only hope they have the foresight to not prevent their players from legitimately completing quests and objectives by using normal game mechanics. I'm glad to see the barriers in Monastery for instance are only up when you agro mobs; however foolish that seems. I'm sure all of the new quests are soon in store for new doors/barriers or prevention methods that fix "lag" .

[ddoer]

If the end game vendor you are referring to is the paranoid alchemist you get to use for yugaloth favor then you should know that the +2 int pot comes with the heavy risk of -50% fortification, ...

is there any reference or how do i know about the -50% fortification? I drink a pot and my fortification remains in 100%. if there is a "chance" of losing fortification, how heavy is the risk?

[Visty]

is there any reference or how do i know about the -50% fortification? I drink a pot and my fortification remains in 100%. if there is a "chance" of losing fortification, how heavy is the risk?

it depends on which pot you drink

the cha+2 i think is the one with -50% fort

theres a thread about it in the user guide section which i wont search for you now :P

[Kalundan]

it depends on which pot you drink

the cha+2 i think is the one with -50% fort

theres a thread about it in the user guide section which i wont search for you now :P

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=198744

CHA +2 was a drop in fort save.

___________________________

Essence of Betrayal:

+2 stacking dexterity
-2 to hit

Essence of Cunning:

+2 stacking intelligence
-50% fortification

Essence of Desire:

+2 stacking constitution
+20 stacking hp (total +40 with con bracket)
No negative yet discovered

Essence of Despair:

+2 stacking wisdom
+4 natural armor
-4 reflex save

Essence of Fury:

+2 stacking strength
-4 will save

Essence of Seduction:

+2 stacking charisma
-4 fortitude save

[ddoer]

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=198744

CHA +2 was a drop in fort save.

___________________________

Essence of Betrayal:

+2 stacking dexterity
-2 to hit

Essence of Cunning:

+2 stacking intelligence
-50% fortification

Essence of Desire:

+2 stacking constitution
+20 stacking hp (total +40 with con bracket)
No negative yet discovered

Essence of Despair:

+2 stacking wisdom
+4 natural armor
-4 reflex save

Essence of Fury:

+2 stacking strength
-4 will save

Essence of Seduction:

+2 stacking charisma
-4 fortitude save

nice. my sorc has no fortitude save anyway. Thx Devs for making the side effect in this way.

Wiz does suffer. 50% fort save is a big deal. but not critically harmful. You are suppose to be able to avoid attack by other means.

Many of the side effects are neglectable

[Raegoul]

You're not surprised, right? It looks like a fairly predictable progression:
Shroud: Keep up the haste and fogs, plus maybe some heightened web. Oh and kill those gnolls.
VOD: Keep up the haste and fogs, plus maybe some heightened web. Oh and kill those bats.

The times when a mage could contribute DPS against devils in Shroud or later were uncommon, and depended upon a ring of melees already clobbering the boss. As a melee in these quests, I can contribute simply by moving in a clump with the other melees and swinging around at whatever gets close... but if there's a mage with us, too often it doesn't make sense for him to even bother trying. With effort and luck he can steal some kills, but that's not a true contribution to the party.

The devs will have to try and find a way to fix the problems you experienced, and I tell you, I don't envy them the job. Part of the solution could come automatically when you move on to mobs who don't have so many fire-immune teleporters. Part of their attempt will be adding non-spellpoint spells to casters, so they can join in DPSing trash without burning points needed for a boss. But it'll take a lot more than that, and some of the changes would definitely have to upset one category of players or another. It'll be tough!

(A few other things that could help would be Dimensional Anchor as a self-buff aura, and something like Energy Substitution or Searing Spell. Aggro scaling by distance threshold could help as well, as could a Intim and Diplo skills that integrate with Hate points. But those topics get very complex very fast. And hey, Mass Enervate!)

I feel dirty... /agree

I would also like to add that Casters should be able to do stuff on a bigger scale. So i would like to things like walls of force and stone to affect the environment and control the battle field. I would like the fun of the Caster doing something that respects the true power in PnP not just adding DPS. Though Searing spell would be nice it just makes firewall and DelayFB the only spells to be used. There needs to be more real options out there that bend the world to a mage's will.