Casters Are Dead.

[lexinator]

New tactic = get a bard not a sorc ...

Lol exactly. Oh well, I am rocking hardcore on my melee, and am making a new high Str/Con Dorf to kick some more butt. No point in running with a Sorc now. Bards can haste and fight.... Plus I didn't really like swapping my spells out for buffs/Recon anyway. I will wait this mod out with my caster, hopefully Turbine notices the huge drop in casters and increase in melee.

I play this to have fun, and am not having it with my caster. My melee is still rocking though, and is a blast to play.

[Phidius]

Too many people to quote and rep...

I feel bad for people who play non-WF pure casters. If you're one of those, and are having fun, then this does not apply to you.

[KingOfCheese]

I was worried, heading into the new content, based on the posts here. But I found my sorc (currently 18) very effective. Human sorc, high hp, high UMD, twinked out gear, reasonably high DCs, mixed spells for CC, nuking, buffing. I could crowd control when needed. I could nuke down or finger mobs when needed (especially bosses and sub-bosses in terms of nuking). I found myself very survivable. Granted, its not like Gianthold or the Vale where I could kill everything before the melees got to it. But still a very valuable party member. In assembling a team, I want a caster in the group (and two or more wouldn't be a problem).

[brlftz]

I really havent noticed it being that bad for casters.... obviously the days of soloing everything and leading the kill count are far from over, but casters were never supposed to be that powerful IMO...

Some of the new quests can be horrible for a cleric (at least until people start capping and know the quests better) and for this reason alone, a good CC caster or intimitank has never been more valuable

Im enjoying playing my main caster (only toon ive really played so far besides my cleric) of course, having evasion a min2 greataxe and a good vorpal might have something to do with it

Battle casters ftw... finally its true

exactly. when i went in the battleground for the first time, i was soloing on my drow wiz, and defaulted to my standard outdoor area routine. it was not fun. it became obvious that new tactics were necessary, and soloing may not be in the cards. i'll figure it out eventually.

BUT...I went back in solo on my battle wiz, and ran through it like a hot knife through butter. wiz buffs, self healing, DPS spells, and a min2 great axe made it ridiculously easy. i agree with the posters saying that bards are better at buffs if that's all a party wants, but the value of a battle wiz has gone through the roof imo. esp since saving manna isn't as much of a concern now.

[smatt]

I was worried, heading into the new content, based on the posts here. But I found my sorc (currently 18) very effective. Human sorc, high hp, high UMD, twinked out gear, reasonably high DCs, mixed spells for CC, nuking, buffing. I could crowd control when needed. I could nuke down or finger mobs when needed (especially bosses and sub-bosses in terms of nuking). I found myself very survivable. Granted, its not like Gianthold or the Vale where I could kill everything before the melees got to it. But still a very valuable party member. In assembling a team, I want a caster in the group (and two or more wouldn't be a problem).

No no you can't bo any of that... You have to try and play the old way.. Run finger run finger run finger fast fast fast go go go.... Slaughter everything everywhere all the time with almost no failure ever. Otherwise you're worthless

This is sarcasim.... BTW


Sorcys might be a bit of a disadvantage depending on how they're specced and waht spells they carry. Even with there faster casting times and vast SP pool.
I'm still in the yes, casters won't be as effective in the same ways as they have been in the past, which at tiems was far too effective. But IMO when things settle down a bit, and tactics are worked out... It'll be fine... For most people, some won't like it because their playstyle is unwavering. I'm not critisizing a particular playstyle.... I'm just saying that if you're inflexible in your playstyle, then you are far less likely to have fun as the game changes over time.

[Thriand]

My sorcerer is level 20 now, and I've played through all the new quests normal through elite, I definitely don't feel useless in the new content, but if I were filling a pug I would take a melee over a caster any day.

Mod 4 and 5 may have been biased to casters but mods 1,2,6,7,9 have been completely biased to melees.

3 and 8 have been fairly balanced in my opinion.

[JeffreyGator]

There are lots of places where pugs have wanted nothing to do with one of my casters.

There are 3 levels of paladin and 2 levels of rogue in with the 12 levels of sorc.

In the new area I don't need divine power clickies to hit the mobs with a rapier that spews curses and shattermantle or the silver short sword that paralyzes. Both of these help out the party.

As does permahaste, blur displacement GH etc. I don't need to be the instadeath king.

And I can still drop firewalls on tieflings (5-10 points of resist - wah) Scorching ray even works on them.

And as someone pointed out you can't turn around without bumping into a shrine.

The real knig of this mod isn't melee it's a cleric cause heals are pretty darn important in the new stuff.

[Pyromaniac]

The falloff in Mod 9 for a caster is much much more than any other class.

This wouldn't be that bad, except for the fact that casters have generally been falling for the last 4 mods.

It just gets tiresome.

It doesn't make much nevermind to me. I'll just play a melee. The HP totals out there are so low now that being a melee has never been better. Damage taken is high, so you'll want a caster to throw down CC buffs... but that isn't fun, so I'll let some other caster do it.

QFT - My sorc is now pretty much going to retire. I don't like the sorc as a support class playstyle, I'd rather play a melee bard if I'm going to be a haste bot.

Let someone else play the caster imo, boring class now.

[Pyromaniac]

So how do you reply to all the bards who say:
Boo hoo hoo, I'm helpless, I got nuthin.
I can't Web, Fog, Drain, or Stone. Of course I have no FW or Polar Ray. The module gave me no new spells, and these new mobs are mostly immune to charm even.

I'd say roll a bard who can melee?

[smatt]

QFT - My sorc is now pretty much going to retire. I don't like the sorc as a support class playstyle, I'd rather play a melee bard if I'm going to be a haste bot.

Let someone else play the caster imo, boring class now.

Last night... New content hard/elite sorcy webbed, displaced hasted, enervated (NOT level drain) from scorlls fingered key mobs with no problem occasion acid fog, and firewall depending on mobs.... All very effective... Smoked through new content quests in no time.

Ya, I guess hot keyed finger only sorcys who are too lazy to level drain or enervate/level drain first are in fact worthless now....

In Edit... I'm thinking that the sarcasim might be be missed... Bards have far more of a case IMO. Sure sorcy's may not be the center of teh DDO universe anymore. But as many have said to me in game while discussing this... A few different tactics, a drop of the ego down a few notches and they do just. Non-melee bards on the other hand... Well things could be a bit mroe boring for them......

[Aspenor]

Personally, I can't imagine why a caster that's actually in a party would bother to cast FoD on anything. Group up some monsters and drop an Energy Drain, and ignore them. It's not like they're going to be hurting anything, leave them to the melees.

Sure, arcane spell casters may not have turned into the equal of the PnP counterparts, but did we really expect them to? Having a good caster makes any quest go easier.

Use spells with no save, and spells the monster in question is most susceptible to. Expecting to be able to run around insta-killing or nuking everything to dust is irrational.

[smatt]

Personally, I can't imagine why a caster that's actually in a party would bother to cast FoD on anything. Group up some monsters and drop an Energy Drain, and ignore them. It's not like they're going to be hurting anything, leave them to the melees.

Sure, arcane spell casters may not have turned into the equal of the PnP counterparts, but did we really expect them to? Having a good caster makes any quest go easier.

Use spells with no save, and spells the monster in question is most susceptible to. Expecting to be able to run around insta-killing or nuking everything to dust is irrational.

No sir, some mobs such as bell ringer/cleric/caster tieflings need to be dispossed of quikly.... As well as air ele's... It's just that finger is no longer the super-duper easy button ego stroker it used to be....

But yes, casters are still an integral part of an effective fast moving party... They just aren't the center of the universe that require all to carry thier caps and clip their god-like toenails anymore. (More Sarcasim)

[Aspenor]

No sir, some mobs such as bell ringer/cleric/caster tieflings need to be dispossed of quikly.... As well as air ele's... It's just that finger is no longer the super-duper easy button ego stroker it used to be....

But yes, casters are still an integral part of an effective fast moving party... They just aren't the center of the universe that require all to carry thier caps and clip their god-like toenails anymore. (More Sarcasim)

Those are only circumstantial times, of course some monsters need to be disposed of quickly, but not many. Air elementals are the one monster that a caster of some type is nearly required to kill (note I said nearly).

But yes, gone are the days of Mod 5 where there was no reason to play anything but an arcane spellcaster, and I think the game is better for it.

[Ganidel]

Irresistable dance, wave of exhaustion and Invisibility are your best friends in this new mod, use invis on your self and cleric, makes a world of difference.
Might have to teach the cleric how to stay invis, like no clicking on a chest untell its open, letting others open gates and letting others talk to npcs.

Enlarge it great for irresisable dance also.

[Mindspat]

So how do you reply to all the bards who say:
Boo hoo hoo, I'm helpless, I got nuthin.
I can't Web, Fog, Drain, or Stone. Of course I have no FW or Polar Ray. The module gave me no new spells, and these new mobs are mostly immune to charm even.

Web needs a high DC. Not having the spell just means they won't watch things ignore it.

Fog, Bards can cast displacement. Displacement gives a 50% chance for a hit to miss. Why bother casting a fog that others forget to fight in when a displacement does it better!

Enervate & Energy Drain. Enervate is on scrolls. Clerics get Energy Drain.

Wall of Fire, this has extremely limited use in the new high level content.

Polar Ray, a decent bard who can melee will make up for it in overall DPS. If you're playing the Bard as something that never melee's it might be beneficial to see what options there are to do dmg. Just 'cs it might not be a DPS build does not mean you can't melee - just need proper gear.

what's wrong with your songs? If you're playing a Bard why aren't you playing your lute? Lock the **** down and have the party pick it off 1 by 1.

Enervate and FtS are on scrolls, no? (bard + haggle + scrolls = unlimited pool of spells to use)

[Mindspat]

Too many people to quote and rep...

I feel bad for people who play non-WF pure casters. If you're one of those, and are having fun, then this does not apply to you.

BS.

Warforged Casters are equally problematic. Too many of them are NOT friendly to Clerics and don't know how to keep themselves repaired. Half of the time there's an issue with a Caster these days I happen to notice they are also a Warforged. Being that "my other main is a Cleric" (that should be a t-shirt!) I'm noticing it to be more and more common.

The worst of them all is the melee non-healer friendly Warforged who insist on tanking but don't bother bringing Reconstruct Scrolls for the Bards or Arcane. It's almost as bad as a Paly with 2 layonhands, no dps, that dies 10 times without consuming a single spell point.

[bandyman1]

I can't really imagine part II of the raid without max/empowered FW, DBFs, and SRays.
In an effort to avoid spoiling for those who haven't ran it, that's about all I'm gonna say.

Please note; I'm not saying it can't be done, just not sure why you'd want to do it .

[Pyromaniac]

I can't really imagine part II of the raid without max/empowered FW, DBFs, and SRays.

Please note; I'm not saying it can't be done, just not sure why you'd want to do it .

Because hardly anybody in your raid group wants to play their sorc or wizard? You don't really need those spells in the end raid part 2...DPS away!

[Pyromaniac]

But yes, casters are still an integral part of an effective fast moving party... They just aren't the center of the universe that require all to carry thier caps and clip their god-like toenails anymore. (More Sarcasim)

Hey for those who like to play their casters primarily as support toons, more power to them, I'll be meleeing. I already see comments like 'Ok, who's bringing a haster?....then silence...."

I've moved on from the concern about 'casters are dead', and am now thinking about just deleting my sorc once and for all. I don't have fun in a support toon role, and will leave it to others to do so.

[Riggs]

Points on both sides.

However fort saves are still too high. it should not take 6 spells to kill something that 2 levels lower it only took 1 spell. 3? ok.

Fort saves also make the monk abilities utterly useless like quivering palm and stunning fist. Landing stuff 50% of the time at level 16 vs say 5% (rolling a 1 only) at level 18 is not balanced at all.

Like I said in other posts about ac and to hit - players got 4 levels to play with - monsters got 15 levels.

Everyone was excited about the new spells for months - and basically only energy drain is useful...in new content. But really who cares that wail of the banshee is awesome in lower level areas you hadnt planned on running anymore? (but have to anyway because the xp sucks in mod 9).

Going up 4 levels monsters should have gotten 4, maybe a bit more in their saves, but they have gotten way more than a 4 level increase in everything (tieflings are trash and dont count, devils are the main enemy).

Sad.