Casters Are Dead.

[Zippo]

Seriously. I hope I am wrong, really really wrong, and am missing something key. But, at the moment, casters seem to be absolutely useless in the majority of the new content.

A spell with a DC? Even on normal it is landing less than 50% of the time. No, I'm not capped yet, but nor am I seeing anything in the loot tables to significantly change this the way the Napkin did either. Maybe +1 from a better tome and +1 from a leveling point to bump up 1 DC? That is not going to make a difference when on normal nothing is sticking. Please note, I'm not talking about trailing to Wail everything by any means. I'm specifically referring to the most likely spells to stick (hold, web, etc). The only CC spell we have found to really make a noticeable difference is actually sleet storm.

So what does that leave - nuking? Mildly beneficial - but another well equipped melee is going to be more reliable DPS most of the times it counts. Buffing? I'll run my bards - theirs are better - and they can DPS/heal as well.

Please tell me how I am wrong so that I can adjust my strategies accordingly. Thanks.

How long have you been around?

You know that's how it goes one mods end game melees are king and the next end game casters rule. That's pretty much the way its been since the beginning. Its just the nature of the game.

[Aesop]

What Angelus_dead said.

It gets bad when you resort to that

Though I do concur

Casters need to be able to contribute in a FUN meaningful way and just casting buffs doesn't cover it. Spamming is fun all of the five minutes (or seconds depending) that it lasts... but again that doesn't cover it

Aesop

[Borror0]

How long have you been around?

You know that's how it goes one mods end game melees are king and the next end game casters rule. That's pretty much the way its been since the beginning. Its just the nature of the game.

Good, then why are melee "king" for four modules in a row?

It gets bad when you resort to that

He wrote everything that I meant to say with the tone I meant to use, why type it twice?

[Kraldor]

He wrote everything that I meant to say with the tone I meant to use, why type it twice?

Test your paraphrasing skills?

[Zippo]

Good, then why are melee "king" for four modules in a row?

Well casters had it good for four mods now its four for the melees. Its just the idea that they jump it back and forth. I know you've seen it everyone has. They love on the melees for awhile then they love on the casters. Meant nothing bad by it, was just pointing out what others have seen but might of forgotten.

Well now look at the time off to work

[Arkat]

Change Tactics.

Improve Teamwork.

Energy Drain.

[Spookyaction]

New tactic = get a bard not a sorc ...

[geoffhanna]

If you are level 17 you are -5 on your DC from where you will be a in a couple of weeks (assuming +2 for capstone).

-5 is a lot. And that is a minumum, I noted Greater school items that add +2 to your DC.

Lets talk again at the end of the month.

[tinyelvis]

I would have to say I disagree with just about everything I was patient enough to read in this thread. I have pugged many quest and also ran with elite companions. I am here to say that well made casters rock in mod 9. Every party I am in, I either am a major contributor or the major guy who is tasked with killing the end boss. I have seen that this is the same with other well made casters and clerics.

I can do many things as the party member. I land my spells just fine rarely resorting to energy drain. I DPS better than any party member. No one comes close. This means I can really lay into some critter if needed (and I dont even use empower anymore so I know potentially someone can do better than me). I can also incapacitate some or all mobs or drop appropriate CC if I desire so the fighters easily rip thru them. All of this is done with one bar of mana between shrines.

I have run all of the new content and some up to elite with good performance at all levels. A number of times I have been tasked with solo'n the end boss(es) in many quests while the fighters intimidated or otherwise dealt with the re-spawning trash. Other times, I have dealt with the trash while melee'rs faught the boss.

As usual, its all about learning what to attack when and with which spell. The only thing dead are poorly made or played casters. The right spell and great saves are the key. Here is a hint ( I use very few flashy but ineffective new spells ). If you are a high hitpoint build with poor saves....too bad for you.

If the game designers make things easier for casters, I guarantee you that others will learn how to better play their toons and totally dominate all (as it stands now that still may happen). Stop whinning and relying on fire wall and make your caster the high powered death machines that they have the potential to be. (I have seen well played clerics dominate too).

[Spookyaction]

I would have to say I disagree with just about everything I was patient enough to read in this thread. I have pugged many quest and also ran with elite companions. I am here to say that well made casters rock in mod 9. Every party I am in, I either am a major contributor or the major guy who is tasked with killing the end boss. I have seen that this is the same with other well made casters and clerics.

I can do many things as the party member. I land my spells just fine rarely resorting to energy drain. I DPS better than any party member. No one comes close. This means I can really lay into some critter if needed (and I dont even use empower anymore so I know potentially someone can do better than me). I can also incapacitate some or all mobs or drop appropriate CC if I desire so the fighters easily rip thru them. All of this is done with one bar of mana between shrines.

I have run all of the new content and some up to elite with good performance at all levels. A number of times I have been tasked with solo'n the end boss(es) in many quests while the fighters intimidated or otherwise dealt with the re-spawning trash. Other times, I have dealt with the trash while melee'rs faught the boss.

As usual, its all about learning what to attack when and with which spell. The only thing dead are poorly made or played casters. The right spell and great saves are the key. Here is a hint ( I use very few flashy but ineffective new spells ). If you are a high hitpoint build with poor saves....too bad for you.

If the game designers make things easier for casters, I guarantee you that others will learn how to better play their toons and totally dominate all (as it stands now that still may happen). Stop whinning and relying on fire wall and make your caster the high powered death machines that they have the potential to be. (I have seen well played clerics dominate too).

Well thats the answer i'm a gimpy 28 point build and a sucky player too. Now can you just be more specific on how to be uber like you ?

[Hafeal]

Yep, it's likely that the days of total sorcy domination 6 minute zerg-fests are over.... Thank god, they're learnign yet again to mix it up, to give more classes a role..... Theyr'e getting away from the stupidity of 1 class rules them all, zergs them all boring BS, I'm so uber look at me go game play....

My first impressions are to agree with you. Add in the DA system to DS and try a zerg run through Wiz King, for example, much more difficult, especially with full group and/or on hard and elite (sure a wiz/sorc can still solo it on norm).

[bobbryan2]

Well casters had it good for four mods now its four for the melees. Its just the idea that they jump it back and forth. I know you've seen it everyone has. They love on the melees for awhile then they love on the casters. Meant nothing bad by it, was just pointing out what others have seen but might of forgotten.

Well now look at the time off to work

Um... you're missing the point. Because casters didn't 'have it good for four mods.'

Casters had mod 5. Mod 5 was the insane tipping of the scale to make casters the insane powerhouses.

Mod 6 upped melee.
Mod 7 upped melee.
Mod 8 upped melee.
Mod 9 upped melee.

They just went a little too far overboard. I'm hoping some of the issues will be band-aided when Savants come out. Being able to use a wall of lightning on devils will improve some of the DPS issues.

But make no mistake... It's a band-aid at best. They need to figure out better ways for casters to contribute meaningful DPS away from that one damned spell.

[Hafeal]

Good, then why are melee "king" for four modules in a row?

Because they [the devs] perceived casters as still being too unbalanced to the other classes?

[bobbryan2]

My first impressions are to agree with you. Add in the DA system to DS and try a zerg run through Wiz King, for example, much more difficult, especially with full group and/or on hard and elite (sure a wiz/sorc can still solo it on norm).

Um... if you want to be technical. DA is Much much much much much more worse for melees than it is for casters.

DA doesn't really slow casters down at all. It's the infinite saves and immunity to fire that slow them down.

[bobbryan2]

Because they [the devs] perceived casters as still being too unbalanced to the other classes?

Wrongly...

I might add.

[Hendrik]

Change Tactics.

Improve Teamwork.

Energy Drain.

Forgot to add, try again at the right level. No wonder spells are not landing well with the Environment Effects we face, Dungeons 2-4 levels higher then we are, MOBs 2-11 Levels(CR) higher then we are.

I mean really, what did people think would happen?!?!? Really think you are going to run around and PK, FoD everything in sight?

[Yurtrus]

I think my cc, buffing sorc did just fine last night.. first impression though was not good. Glad I don't have to quest with many of you tossing sorcs to the wind. You have no idea what any one sorc can accomplish.. Pretty arrogant of ya to assume we all sux.

Big thing to remember is that there is more to this game then MOD 9. Unfortunately the mentality is that " oh I am going to be running only the new content now" so sad for you. This is the reason there is so much whining about lack of content. I don't care how many times you have run a shroud or vod or abbot. Us sorcs are here to stay and when you need a guide through any of those or the vale or orchard give me a call.

[bobbryan2]

Forgot to add, try again at the right level. No wonder spells are not landing well with the Environment Effects we face, Dungeons 2-4 levels higher then we are, MOBs 2-11 Levels(CR) higher then we are.

I mean really, what did people think would happen?!?!? Really think you are going to run around and PK, FoD everything in sight?

Yeah!!! No kidding!

Especially since when you gain two levels the DC will remain the same!

Why did you guys think that it would work as well as when you had the exact same DC 2 levels ago?

You're all crazy!

[bobbryan2]

I think my cc, buffing sorc did just fine last night.. first impression though was not good. Glad I don't have to quest with many of you tossing sorcs to the wind. You have no idea what any one sorc can accomplish.. Pretty arrogant of ya to assume we all sux.

Big thing to remember is that there is more to this game then MOD 9. Unfortunately the mentality is that " oh I am going to be running only the new content now" so sad for you. This is the reason there is so much whining about lack of content. I don't care how many times you have run a shroud or vod or abbot. Us sorcs are here to stay and when you need a guide through the vale or orchard give me a call.

Wow...

So your point is: Yeah, maybe you suck in old content. But I can go run content from a year or more ago back when casters were great, and I still rock!

Wow.

[Yurtrus]

if I have to explain my point to someone like you who is so off on your thinking. Then my point was made.