unnerfable?

[shenthing]

K, so here is a take on intimitanking, I'm looking to build my first tank and any advice given would be much appreciated.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.08
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Dwarf Male
(8 Fighter \ 6 Paladin \ 6 Ranger) 
Hit Points: 350
Spell Points: 100 
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 21
Reflex: 16
Will: 8

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             15                    20
Dexterity            16                    20
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence         12                    13
Wisdom               10                    10
Charisma             10                    12

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               5                    14
Bluff                 0                     1
Concentration         2                     3
Diplomacy             2                     4
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                0                     1
Heal                  0                     2
Hide                  5                     7
Intimidate            2                    21.5
Jump                  6                    17
Listen                0                     0
Move Silently         5                     7
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                     1
Search                1                     3
Spot                  0                     0
Swim                  2                     5
Tumble                5                    14
Use Magic Device      2                    12

Level 1 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Diplomacy (+2)
Skill: Hide (+2)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Move Silently (+2)
Skill: Tumble (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider


Level 2 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 3 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Mobility
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Stunning Blow


Level 4 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Combat Expertise


Level 5 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 6 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 7 (Paladin)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 8 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 9 (Ranger)
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Tumble (+1.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Ranger)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 11 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Aberration


Level 12 (Ranger)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack


Level 13 (Fighter)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Trip


Level 15 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 16 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 17 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Whirlwind Attack


Level 19 (Paladin)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Skill: Intimidate (+0.5)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Dwarven Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack II
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II
Enhancement: Dwarven Faith I
Enhancement: Dwarven Faith II
Enhancement: Dwarven Tactics I
Enhancement: Dwarven Tactics II
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) II
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Trip) I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Trip) II
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion I
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion II
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III

[Cairo]

Im just wondering, if youre building him to intimitank, why go Tempest at all?

Grab a Tower Shield, forgo the ranger, go 6 more levels in fighter, and grab the Defender PrE. With Defender II at Fighter 12, You gain:
+3 Str
+3 Con
+2 Saves
+3 Dodge to AC
+100% aggro
5 Feats (2 Feats -You wont need Mobility or Spring Attack + 3 Class Bonus Feats.)
More HPs
Higher BAB.


The only things you get from 6 levels of ranger are:
+3 extra damage vs 2 enemies
Ram's Might/Resist Energy spells
Diehard
10% attack speed.
+2 AC while TWF.


Going 14 Fighter will also open up Fighter Haste/Armor Class Boost IV, +1 to Stunning Blow/Sunder/Trip DCs, Str III, Toughness IV, Intimidate IV.

But if you're set on the 8/6/6, Go for it, it'll still work.

I ask this: Skills are whacked. Why are you putting points into Jump and Balance? 14 Balance isnt gonna save you from Air Eles or let you tank Hound like an Acrobat. Why are you putting your first level's skill points how you are?

Level 1 (Ranger)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Diplomacy (+2)
Skill: Hide (+2)
Skill: Intimidate (+2)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Move Silently (+2)
Skill: Tumble (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)

Drop the Diplo. Diplomacy is useless to a tank. In fact, no tank should ever even think about wasting points in Diplo. Diplomacy is the complete opposite effect an intimitank wants to employ. Put them in Haggle instead - you'll get more use from it. Drop the Hide, drop the MS, you're never going to use em anyway. If youre just spending points to spent points, put them into Heal/Swim, or Listen/Spot. You wont get much use from these either, but youll get more use from them than Hide and MS.

Don't put any points into Hide, MS, Diplomacy.. Tumble and Jump are nice, but once you get a positive Tumble with your armor, you wont use it a whole lot.. Feather Falling will prevent fall damage.

I see levels 5, 6, 7, 9, 13, 19, you're not boosting Intimidate. You're an intimitank who's missing out on 3.5 points of intimidate. You take a fighter level at 13 and take Tumble over Intimidate.

Just my thoughts

[Dexxaan]

Hate telling you this but if you are planning on Intimi-Tanking.... you`ve nerfed him yourself.... no need for Turbine`s help.

[sephiroth1084]

Why bother with ranger at all? If you want the speed boost of tempest, you could go pure fighter (capstone), or paladin 14 (zeal). You can always pick up TWF in addition to your tanking feats.

I've got a 13 Pal/4 fighter I'm trying to get to cap right now. I didn't even bother with Defender of Siberys on him right now, and took Knight of the Chalice instead, since his AC and intimidate are sufficient for the time being. When I start running the content on hard and elite I may switch. My plan at the moment is to finish at 14/6 and pick up the first level of Stalwart Defender.

[Cairo]

Check this out, OP, what do you think? Bought the +1 tomes from the DDO store at level 1, theyre cheap and easily accessible, especially to VIPs.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Intimitank 
Level 20 Lawful Good Dwarf Male
(14 Fighter \ 6 Paladin) 
Hit Points: 402
Spell Points: 25 
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 20
Reflex: 8
Will: 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             17                    24
Dexterity            12                    13
Constitution         16                    20
Intelligence         11                    13
Wisdom               10                    10
Charisma             10                    10

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 1
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 1
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               1                     5
Bluff                 0                     0
Concentration         3                     5
Diplomacy             0                     0
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                1                     5.5
Heal                  0                     0
Hide                  1                     1
Intimidate            4                    29
Jump                  4                    18.5
Listen                0                     0
Move Silently         1                     1
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                     1
Search                1                     3
Spot                  0                     0
Swim                  4                     7
Tumble                2                     6
Use Magic Device      n/a                   n/a

Notable Equipment
Armor: Demonic Breastplate
Ring: Charismatic Ring
Ring: Dextrous Ring
Goggles: Spectacular Optics
Necklace: Health Necklace
Trinket: Bloodstone
Cloak: Cloak of Resistance 
Belt: Belt of Greater False Life 
Bracers: Ogre Power Bracers

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Slicing Blow
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Stunning Blow


Level 2 (Paladin)


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge


Level 4 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 5 (Paladin)


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 7 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 8 (Paladin)


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Sunder


Level 11 (Paladin)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise


Level 13 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 14 (Paladin)


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Trip


Level 16 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Cleave


Level 17 (Fighter)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 19 (Fighter)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Attack I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II
Enhancement: Dwarven Tactics I
Enhancement: Dwarven Tactics II
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender I
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender II
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) II
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Sunder) I
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Sunder) II
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Trip) I
Enhancement: Fighter Dwarven Waraxe Specialization I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate I
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III

That's 492 hp + 20 from Minos = 512 HP with no casted buffs.

Saves will be (around)
Fort: 26
Ref: 14
Will: 16

+4 to Sunder and Stunning Blow, +3 to Trip DCs.

Divine Righteousness to build aggro quickly.. +200% aggro isnt bad, eh.. and Divine Sacrifice to help with some extra damage.

[Phidius]

The best way to build an un-nerfable character is to gimp it as much as possible, so that no one in their right mind would want to play it.


Turbine only screws with the successful builds...

[Jay203]

The best way to build an un-nerfable character is to gimp it as much as possible, so that no one in their right mind would want to play it.


Turbine only screws with the successful builds...

bingo~

[krud]

You won't always be intimitanking. There are times when you'll want to dish out the dps. If you can switch to TWF (or even THF) to pump up dps it really helps. I'm going to spec my intimitank for TWF in a couple of levels. He'll still mainly be an intimitank, but whenever I'm paired with another intimitank, or whenever it's not needed, I'd like to be able to switch modes. Just remember not to hit the inimidate key whenever in twf mode (unless you still got the AC to back it up).

[shenthing]

Thanks for the input guys, as I said, this is my first tank build. Doesn't the 6 levels of ranger also help my reflex saves without hurting the fort and give me the dex II enhancement. This build isn't meant to be the number one fighter, just pretty survivable and usefull DPS... Dex is used for ranged attacks with bow and used the enhancements to negate Dex cap on plate.
The skills are WAAAY messed up, kinda got a better idea of what I was looking for in the build once I got 10 the higher levels. Don't think I would waste the skills on haggle, but maybe focus a little more on jump and balance(got a main that is WIS/CHA).
Still open to suggestions/corrections.

[Cairo]

Thanks for the input guys, as I said, this is my first tank build. Doesn't the 6 levels of ranger also help my reflex saves without hurting the fort and give me the dex II enhancement. This build isn't meant to be the number one fighter, just pretty survivable and usefull DPS... Dex is used for ranged attacks with bow and used the enhancements to negate Dex cap on plate.
The skills are WAAAY messed up, kinda got a better idea of what I was looking for in the build once I got 10 the higher levels. Don't think I would waste the skills on haggle, but maybe focus a little more on jump and balance(got a main that is WIS/CHA).
Still open to suggestions/corrections.

True, you do get a bit higher reflex save, 1 point higher, but taking 6 ranger levels for the dex II enhancement doesnt make sense. As your OP has it, you'll end up with a 26 Dex with a dex item. That's a +8 dex bonus. You'll most likely be wearing Plate (tho not always, you could go with the Icy), so that's a max dex bonus of 1.. with your enhancements, its max bonus of 3.. so the dex enhancements give you a whopping +1 reflex save.. which is nice, but youd be better off spending those APs elsewhere.. 1 reflex point isnt game-breaking, esp when you have 500+ hp.

I honestly think that going 6 Ranger JUST to get a few points of AC and a 10% melee attack speed while TWF isnt worth it for an intimitank. It's nice, hell yeah, but when you're NOT tanking (and how often will that ACTUALLY be, in all honesty?) you can STILL dual wield, just not as effectively.

Still not sure why you even brought up ranged attacks.. you'll never use it. If you're tanking, you're not gonna pull out a bow and Manyshot, and if youre not tanking, you'd even be better off just meleeing, since you have axe damage enhancements available but no bow damage enhances.

In your build, you take Axe Attack II but no Axe Damage.. you wont have much trouble hitting, but you WILL be competing for threat with TWF hasted backstab lightningII/RadII rogues and Tempest III 30+ Str TWF Dwarven Axe or Khopesh rangers - and you have no threat modifiers in your build. No PrE to help with tanking, you're just gonna rely 100% on your own low damage and Intimidate.

Your build is definately viable, but in all honesty, if I had to choose which build I'd rather play as a tank in end-game content, I'd go with the one who's built 100% for tanking, with 512 hp over 370 hp (at minimum), and the higher AC/Combat DCs/Threat mods.

[krud]

I honestly think that going 6 Ranger JUST to get a few points of AC and a 10% melee attack speed while TWF isnt worth it for an intimitank. It's nice, hell yeah, but when you're NOT tanking (and how often will that ACTUALLY be, in all honesty?) you can STILL dual wield, just not as effectively.
.
.
Your build is definately viable, but in all honesty, if I had to choose which build I'd rather play as a tank in end-game content, I'd go with the one who's built 100% for tanking, with 512 hp over 370 hp (at minimum), and the higher AC/Combat DCs/Threat mods.

There is a huge difference between simply picking up two weapons, and being specced all the way up to Greater TWF. On my intimitank I find enough occasions when only dps is needed, and one handed fighting just doesn't quite cut it. There is no reason that he couldn't do both on his original build, he's got plenty of feats that could be specced for intimitanking, while still keeping the entire TFW line.