a tribute to kind people

[Aspenor]

did you uninstall old client?

nope, didn't have to.

[ArkoHighStar]

nope, didn't have to.

did you do tdm or the full client?

[Atenhotep]

oooohhh I got my siggy to work!! I'm not totally returdeded afterall.

(Although anyone who has seen me trapped in a Shroud 4x4 could still argue otherwise)

Today is the longest I've ever spent on this drama ... I mean these forums.

Please get the game going again so I can leave this place!!!!

[SableShadow]

(Although anyone who has seen me trapped in a Shroud 4x4 could still argue otherwise)

Go forth and sin no more.

[Aspenor]

did you do tdm or the full client?

full hi res

[ArkoHighStar]

full hi res

excellent good to know

[Samadhi]

<insert talk about pre-patching>

I'm not figuring out how you did this then either ><

[TheJusticar]

Ok, so why would you use spells that cant hurt a Devil, just to prove a point? I could argue that a Tank using his Korthos Ember mace wouldn't have good DPS either. But that would be ridiculous, right? So why would somebody argue a ridiculous point?

I would agree this kind of argument is vacuous -- even if technically true.

And I too have a capped wizard and have played D&D since 1980 .. so can we please just throw out the "ridiculous arguments just to make a point" and try to take about reality?

It's D&D, it's DDO ... there's nothing real about it

Can a wizard throw out as much DPS as a tank?

Gary Gygax seemed to think so since he always called the wizard the most powerful class in the game. But what we he know right?

And in PnP Wizzies/Sorcs are unbeatable and at lvl20 are as close as a demi-god as it gets. Not just in terms of sheer destructive power, but to have the power to stop time, and shape reality ... I seriously doubt we'll ever see casters have that much power in DDO.

Godspeed.

[Atenhotep]

Go forth and sin no more.

Thank you thank you, however I was just ahead on this today. I decided this morning that since DDO was getting a retooling so would I and found a solver that's idiot proof which even I can understand.

http://www.ddoer.com/solver/5x5

The next time I'm in a puzzle room I'm getting out on my own

[Aspenor]

I'm not figuring out how you did this then either ><

I went here and downloaded the client I wanted to use. Executed the download, and it downloaded the update for me. I then ran the downloaded setup program, and chose "repair." The update then installed, and I was ready to rock and roll.

[Atenhotep]

Blah blah blah blah ...

Kewl ... a lot of quibbling, a lot of ridiculous positions but still no legitimate answers.

You rock!

Therefore you win. Therefore you are absolutely right.

Wizards from now on will just cast spells which they know Devils are immune to, just to prove you right.

PS: And the 2 Warforged who ran Shroud with nobody else .. - that poor barbarian had to carry that darn sandbagging sorc all the way through that raid.

PSS: If all your wizard does is stand around and cast buffs maybe you aren't playing your wizard right?

/just sayin.

[Korvek]

Can a wizard throw out as much DPS as a tank?

Gary Gygax seemed to think so since he always called the wizard the most powerful class in the game. But what we he know right?

No, a wizard cannot have a sustainable (read: Not spamming mana pots) damage output even remotely close to an equally geared tank.

The strength of casters Gygax referred to probably has little to do with damage output, and his statement is irrelevant to DDO.

[SableShadow]

found a solver that's idiot proof

Ain't no such animal.

[Gol]

I went here and downloaded the client I wanted to use. Executed the download, and it downloaded the update for me. I then ran the downloaded setup program, and chose "repair." The update then installed, and I was ready to rock and roll.

Downloaded it 3 times in the last hour. Always stalls at 4055k and never progresses.

[toughguyjoe]

This just In. Our reporters in the field have dug up a file on an incident labled: Opall and the Chattering ring.

In this file we see that it seems to mirror the incidents that started this thread.

There was Whining, Griefing and a Backhanded Smurf who didn't get his Ring.

I would LOVE to hear from the included peoples as I wasn't able to be there for this lovely occasion.

[Atenhotep]

No, a wizard cannot have a sustainable (read: Not spamming mana pots) damage output even remotely close to an equally geared tank.

The strength of casters Gygax referred to probably has little to do with damage output, and his statement is irrelevant to DDO.

Ok, so again from what I'm reading here, you seem to be somebody looking to be right at the expense of altering the rules by which the two participants are competing.

You say the Tank is equally geared but what that really seems to mean is you are denying the wizard what he requires to be "equally geared."

Ok, so you win.

You're completly right.

A naked wizard with no mana and no spell components is no match for a fully outfitted tank with greensteel and SOS armor.

I concede to the superiority of the "deny the wizard what he needs to make your point" argument.

All wizards must not use mana pots and must cast spells they know are ineffective or else some tanks will get their feelings hurt.

Thanks for setting me straight.

PS: I looking forward to tomorrow.

[TheJusticar]

/just sayin.

Chill, man. I wasn't making that argument. I simply answered your question with the only possible rationale Asp might've had.

The fact that I have more than 2 sorcs should tell you that I thoroughly enjoy playing that class. They simply rule in GH and Necro (this includes sor'jek) quests. Heck even at lvl 11 you can solo several GH quests with very little problem. Several quests in Vale can be easily soloed with a sorc. So, in non-raid situations, sorcs (and wizzies) are an amazing power to contend with. In end-game raid environments, even with Glacial Assault set maximized and empowered, you can get a crazy 1000+pt crit on Arri (normal about 3-400 or so?). So you can dish out when you have plenty of mana and he's at 10% or less, but I find it more useful to keep melees hasted, myself with fireshielded cold protecting the clerics and killing the gnolls as fast as possible. Throwing webs and solid fog in between rounds and debuffing Arri/Suulo waves if fatigue and exhaustion.

Godspeed.

[Gum]

From what i have read I cannot see how the rest of the party was injured by the actions of Player B. The only person injured was player A and he seems to be rather immature. I think player B is quite capable of handling criticism. Perhaps Gum is trying to use faulty logic in order to present an opinion that seems neutral. I would like to thank the Gum for his attempt at reading the situation but encourage the Gum to think more carefully about the real issue. Person A can obviously be a negative infuence on the whole party by behaving like an a$$hat but I guess that is ok if everyone squelched him. Person B is not shy in expressing his opinion and will take action in a humorous and retributive fashion.

Players in general are already very pizzed off and perhaps the year long wait for new Mod will alleviate the problem. Some of the new changes however will not relieve the frustration until people get used to it.

My post was focusing more on player A and B, with the rest of the party included to show the whole scene. From this thread, I'm not seeing where player A was being immature about the whole thing, quite the opposite. With that said, I wasn't there and don't know fine details. I'm going strictly off of what I've read in this thread. I don't know if player B can handle criticism or not, and I think it may be irrelevant in the final outcome. You think I'm using faulty logic, and I respect your opinion. As far as me presenting my opinion as neutral, I thought my post clearly showed my stance and take on it. I'm speaking for myself when I say player A has never behaved like an A$$hat in my adventures with them. Whether player B is shy or not again is irrelevant, and what exactly is player B taking action for? So player A had some opinions that came over voice chat player B didn't agree with, that gives player B the right to as you put it *take action* in a humorous and retributive way? Wow..........yeah.

[Atenhotep]

Chill, man. I wasn't making that argument. I simply answered your question with the only possible rationale Asp might've had.

The fact that I have more than 2 sorcs should tell you that I thoroughly enjoy playing that class. They simply rule in GH and Necro (this includes sor'jek) quests. Heck even at lvl 11 you can solo several GH quests with very little problem. Several quests in Vale can be easily soloed with a sorc. So, in non-raid situations, sorcs (and wizzies) are an amazing power to contend with. In end-game raid environments, even with Glacial Assault set maximized and empowered, you can get a crazy 1000+pt crit on Arri (normal about 3-400 or so?). So you can dish out when you have plenty of mana and he's at 10% or less, but I find it more useful to keep melees hasted, myself with fireshielded cold protecting the clerics and killing the gnolls as fast as possible. Throwing webs and solid fog in between rounds and debuffing Arri/Suulo waves if fatigue and exhaustion.

Godspeed.

Thanks for posting again. I agree with everything you just posted and would even ad that my capped clerics and wizard can stroll through the vale and GH while my DPS Min 2 Tank has a pretty rough time.

What your later post says is true, that it's a matter of knowing your role. (I recently had to burn 70 heal scrolls in one battle on one squishy bard who thought he was a 60 AC, 400 HP Paladin - tanking directly in from of the SOS Endboss. And I had to do this, since he wasn't using his resources properly my options were to let him die and lose even his small contribution, or to just put another name on my blacklist. I wanted to just finish and move on so ..)

Clearly his resources where not being used effectively and as a result neither were mine.

This subject of DPS plays directly in to my thoughts of DDO Battleclerics.

Coming from pen and paper it was a turn around to adopt a cleric to DDO. A pen and paper cleric is not a DDO cleric. (In fact I would argue that DDO is not Dungeons & Dragons. It is a game "based on" Dungeons & Dragons, but that's a different topic). A Dungeons and Dragons cleric swings a weapon and is often a front line combatant. In DDO it's just not a wise use of party resources to have the monsters killing the person RESPONSIBLE for keeping everyone else alive.

If somebody really wants to play a battle cleric they should roll up a paladin (maybe they too can hope to one day grow up to be the very bestestest pally on the server) because when I'm running Shroud, or Hound, or Abbot, or VoD , or .. etc .. a battlecleric is pretty much useless to me. If I looking for DPS, I'll find a Fighter or Fighter sub-class and if I'm looking for caster firepower I'll take a wizzy or a sorc (I have a wait and see approach to the Favoured Soul).

This is because all that mana the BC is burning just keeping himself alive is mana wasted which could have been spent on a different character who knows their role in a DDO game.

There is some wiggle room here but generally speaking, if a raid calls for multiple clerics you aren't going to find me grouping with a battlecleric and picking up their slack.

What it all comes down to is a question of the most effective use of resources.

So in that respect, absolutely. Tanks are tanks for a reason. Because they can sustain massive amounts of damage.

But its not because wizards can't dish it out. (which is what people are incorrectly arguing and using sandmen to prop up).

The fact is Wizards dish out more. And that's why they are so squishy.

Game balance.

[OpallNotten]

This just In. Our reporters in the field have dug up a file on an incident labled: Opall and the Chattering ring.

In this file we see that it seems to mirror the incidents that started this thread.

There was Whining, Griefing and a Backhanded Smurf who didn't get his Ring.

I would LOVE to hear from the included peoples as I wasn't able to be there for this lovely occasion.

Dont bark up my tree B*tch
Is That Dramatic enough for you?

Besides...me and the smurf have hugged recently.....I dont think we have hate for eachother.


Opall