What to do with intimitank once mod 9 hits

[sephiroth1084]

As the title suggests, I'm trying to decide what to do with Ferrumrym for levels 17-20. He is currently a dwarven intimitank Pal 12/Fighter 4. Originally I had just figured that I'd go another 2 paladin (lvl 4 spells), and 2 more fighter (extra feat, Str +1 and accept to a PrE) with the intention of taking Defender of Siberys 1 and 2, and probably Kensai 1, but that's going to be really rough AP-wise. Now I thought that perhaps I should take Stalwart Defender 1, and Kensai 1 and 2--that'd give me a boost to my DPS, and some of the defender-y abilities.

Currently:
Pal 12/Ftr 4
Str 30
Dex 20
Con 24
Int 13
Wis 17
Cha 24

Feats: Power Attack, Skill Focus: Intimidate, Dodge, Combat Expertise, Improved Crit: Slashing, Extend, Toughness, Weapon Focus: Slashing and Improved Trip.

Most necessary tomes, greensteel and raid gear for AC, intimidate, HP, and melee.

[AP costs are taking into account only enhancements that I wouldn't already have]
Kensia AP cost = 11: 4 (base) + 3 (attack boost II) + 3 (Crit Accuracy II) + 1 (weapon mastery I)
Stalwart Defender AP cost = 5: 4 (base) + 1 (AC boost I)
Defender of Siberys II AP cost = 9: 6 (base) + 1 (AC boost I) +1 (focus of good I) + 1 (courage of good I)
Knight of the Chalice II AP cost = 12 : 6 (base) + 3 (energy of the templar II) + 3 (courage of good II)

So, Kensai + DoS = 20 AP, while SD + KotC = 17 AP.

The first set-up nets me: +1 attack, +2 damage, +4 to confirm crits, +1 intimidate, +1 trip, +1 saves vs. magic, +2 turns, +1 LoH/rest, bonus blocking AC, max Dex w/ towers by 2, increased Dex w/ heavy armor by 1, +25% hate, defensive stance II (+3 Str/Con, +2 saves, +3 AC, +100% hate, move at 1/3 speed)

The second set-up nets me: +1 AC, +2 intimidate, max Dex w/ towers increases by 1, bonus AC and DR when blocking, DR 2/- w/ shields, defensive stance (+2 Str/Con, +1 saves, +2 AC, +50 % hate, 1/4 speed), +2 attack vs. evil outsides, +2d6 damage vs. evil outsiders, +3 bonus on saves vs. evil outsiders, censure demons (DC 31ish)

That looks like a tough call to me.

On the one hand I'm looking at consistent attack and damage vs. everything, as well the minor boost to trip, a better stance, extra turns (Divine Might/Righteousness), LoH, and more AC out of heavy armor, while on the other I'm getting a little more intimidate, passive DR, and extra attack and damage vs. the most prolific (currently) enemy type in the end game.

Did I miss anything?

Thoughts? Votes?

[BurningDownTheHouse]

I'm afraid that option 2 is unavailable to you bro, without 12 levels of fighter kensai II is not happenning...

Edit: My mistake read kensai at top but you ment KOTC, carry on, nothing to see here

[Borror0]

All these bonus feats and no TWF nor THF? Hmm. Makes me a sad intimitank.

Honestly, if there is a path to salvation, it would probably be HotD II/SD I.

Now, let me explain what I mean. As a Paladin, you have access to Divine Righteousness. That alone means that you got to be at twice less DPS to be unable to grab aggro. If you add to that other source of aggro generation (ie items) and the additional 50% from Stalwart Defender, it might be enough to close the gap.

The HotD/SD part is synergistic because HotD gains you +3 Turn Attempts for your Divine Righteousness, immunity to neg levels and +20% healing amplification.

[MrCow]

Edited and deleted, I misread something prior to posting.

[sephiroth1084]

I'm afraid that option 2 is unavailable to you bro, without 12 levels of fighter kensai II is not happenning...

Edit: My mistake read kensai at top but you ment KOTC, carry on, nothing to see here

Edited and deleted, I misread something prior to posting.

I'll excuse you guys because you were posting early in the AM (my time anyway).

[sephiroth1084]

As much as I like discussing things with Borr, I do also enjoy some debate with others...no further thoughts? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

[sephiroth1084]

All these bonus feats and no TWF nor THF? Hmm. Makes me a sad intimitank.

Honestly, if there is a path to salvation, it would probably be HotD II/SD I.

Now, let me explain what I mean. As a Paladin, you have access to Divine Righteousness. That alone means that you got to be at twice less DPS to be unable to grab aggro. If you add to that other source of aggro generation (ie items) and the additional 50% from Stalwart Defender, it might be enough to close the gap.

The HotD/SD part is synergistic because HotD gains you +3 Turn Attempts for your Divine Righteousness, immunity to neg levels and +20% healing amplification.

I'm pretty underwhelmed with HotD (haven't tried it, but am unimpressed reading it). If it were turns I cared about, DoS would get me those. And at the moment, the only necklace I have worth wearing is the Silver Flame Pendant, so neg levels aren't much of a problem (Wis on goggles, GFL on belt, Con on DT armor, prot on helm...maybe get a resistance necklace).

Yeah, no TWF or THF. I could add that in, maybe replace Dodge and spend one of my 2 remaining feats on the second tier of THF (don't think my Dex is high enough to get ITWF)--was thinking weapon specialization as one of the 2 remaining, but could take the third THF instead I suppose. Probably more DPS that way. Need to get some decent 2-handers though.

If I go that route, then Kensai would make no sense since I'd be swapping between 2 sets of weapons pretty regularly.

[Borror0]

If it were turns I cared about, DoS would get me those.

Dos and SF are mutually exclusive, so you got to pick one of the two and SF is a superior pick, to me, since it's +1 AC.

HotD does represent +4 Turns, +20% Healing Amplification and immunity to neg levels; all which are really nice.

[...] the only necklace I have worth wearing is the Silver Flame Pendant, so neg levels aren't much of a problem [...]

Get a better necklace.

If I go that route, then Kensai would make no sense since I'd be swapping between 2 sets of weapons pretty regularly.

...which is another reason to go SF with KotC or HotD.

[sephiroth1084]

Get a better necklace.

Like? There isn't all that much I want in that slot on my DT armor, so I'm in no rush to throw the dice and see what else I can get besides Con +6 (and I don't run the Refuge that often anyway). What should I stick there?

...which is another reason to go SF with KotC or HotD.

Yeah--probably looking at a lot more DPS from THF than I am from Kesnai. Would THF be more DPS than Kensai I + Weapon Specialization? I'm thinking it would, but I have little experience with THF... Then again, WS would also be adding to my 1-handed damage as well...tough call.

I may just do that--KotC + SD, and leave DoS for my almost pure paladin intimitank I'm bringing up. But where to stick the THF feats...?

I can take THF and ITHF with my lvl 6 fighter bonus feat and my lvl 18 feat, but GTHF would have to replace something. I could drop Weapon Focus.

Okay! So let's say I'm going Knight of the Chalice II and Stalwart Defender I, with a Pal 14/Fighter 6 split. My current feats are listed in the OP, and I have 2 open feats to fill. What do I do with those? Should I drop something?

Figure I'm going to aim for THF. Do I need GTHF? Is THF worth more than Weapon Spec? Especially when considering that I tend to spend close to half the time (currently) in S&B mode?

What's everyone's experience with Trip in the new content? What kind of DC are we looking at to have some reasonable success rate?

[Borror0]

Like? There isn't all that much I want in that slot on my DT armor, so I'm in no rush to throw the dice and see what else I can get besides Con +6 (and I don't run the Refuge that often anyway). What should I stick there?

I would have to see your equipment but, if that's the best necklace you can put in there, you're doing something wrong.

You can put something better in there, for sure. If not now, you'll be able to with M9.

Would THF be more DPS than Kensai I + Weapon Specialization?

Well, assuming your character has Power Attack and a 30 Str, that's an extra +10 damage per hit. That is without factoring the increase to base damage that comes with a two-handed weapon which varies depending on if you'll be using a falchion or a greataxe.

the question is, do you think Kensei will give you more than +10 to damage?

I may just do that--KotC + SD

As I said, it's either KotC or HotD. HotD offers more defensive bonuses and KotC add more DPS.

If you plan to tank, HotD does seem the better choice atm.

I could drop Weapon Focus.

That's a prereq to WS.

What do I do with those? Should I drop something?

If you're looking for a feat to drop the following are possible good choices: Improved Trip, Dodge and Skill Focus: Intimidate.

I would lean toward dropping Improved Trip but that depends on the Intimidate DCs and monster to-hits in M9.

Do I need GTHF?

Need? No. If it's a better pick than the three above feats? Yes, most likely.