Need B4 Greed

[FluffyCalico]

With 70+ ac suulomades need a 20 to hit me so ...

Are you sure? I thought it was 72ac for him to only hit on a 20?

[Aranticus]

Are you sure? I thought it was 72ac for him to only hit on a 20?

The ac fluctuates between 70-77ish depending on my buffs so I just use 70+ :d

[Quikster]

All you need is some time to establish agro before letting the melees come in. With 70+ ac suulomades need a 20 to hit me so I can continue to hit him to maintain agro. This requires a good knowledge of dps agro management

When I got the shield before I could even check my loot the clerics were already discussing who should get you. It's pretty disgusting when others decide your loot for you

A dex toon get more negatives with madstone shield because they lose a huge chunk of dex bonus

I agree, i dont care much for peeps discussing loot in a chest like that.

[croger1520033]

I agree, i dont care much for peeps discussing loot in a chest like that.

Here you go guys.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IU1b...eature=related

As far as what happens when a mod comes out, IIRC the servers will crash repeatedly, bugs will be found, and quests shut down as well as entire servers with no notice. This is a best case scenario though so not sure what is really gonna happen. :P

[Thrudh]

I can see both points of the argument here but what i cannot understand why others would take such umbrage to the way others do things.

I dont think anyone has any right to tell someone what to to with their raid loot and i think its crappy when ppl say " i want to roll on this....." when they havent even asked if the person wanted it. At the same time i think the argument being made here is that we are all in a community, and that if a person doesnt need a piece of raid item, why not give it away to the people that need it if it isnt going to help their own character much. Not cause he has too , but because what comes around often goes around.

I saw a bard take madstone boots tonight and i know most of the tanks in the group would have liked to have them. I figured the bard would use them so i looked in his bio. It went on to say he was an enchantment bard, and i thought about this thread. Either way his loot he can do what he wants with it. if he even uses them at all then it was worth it for him.

However you cannot fault others in this community to not want to play with that kind of person because as most of us know a fully specced enchantment bard with his 10-18 str probably wouldnt use it much, and the barbs or other melee could have beneited a lot more.
Maybe the player was new, who knows, and no one said anything. I dont know his build , and this is a grey area as was mentioned earlier and he had every right to take it.

As that person had the right to loot what they wanted, the community should also have the right to avoid said player, or in this case avoid ppl with like minded views. I dont have anything against most ppl who posted here and are friends with a great many of them. But i should have the right to not include players who have different views to when it comes to raid loot. My names are in my sig, pls feel free to not include me in any raid where ppl would loot a +3 tome, to vendor it, in leiu of putting it up for roll.

At the same time i think blacklist is too strong a word. I think agreeing not to play with others who are not like minded is a better way to look at it. Feel free to post names, or pm me them if its more comfortable for you so i can exclude from any raid i may be running to avoid this type of conflict by merely avoiding each other and not have an angry type of conflict. No sense in getting upset over something that can be solved simply by not running with each other.

I hope no one got offended by this post, we are all entitled to an opinion even if it isnt popular.

+1 rep

[Thrudh]

All you need is some time to establish agro before letting the melees come in. With 70+ ac suulomades need a 20 to hit me so I can continue to hit him to maintain agro. This requires a good knowledge of dps agro management

When I got the shield before I could even check my loot the clerics were already discussing who should get you. It's pretty disgusting when others decide your loot for you

A dex toon get more negatives with madstone shield because they lose a huge chunk of dex bonus

Not to keep stirring the pot... but you know you're getting zero blocking DR from that shield since you're not just standing there blocking... So you might as well just be using a normal +5 shield...

But again, you took the shield back when it wasn't worth that much to anyone, so not as a big a party foul as today...

[Thrudh]

When I got the shield before I could even check my loot the clerics were already discussing who should get you. It's pretty disgusting when others decide your loot for you

Yes, I agree that's ****...

[Aranticus]

Not to keep stirring the pot... but you know you're getting zero blocking DR from that shield since you're not just standing there blocking... So you might as well just be using a normal +5 shield...

But again, you took the shield back when it wasn't worth that much to anyone, so not as a big a party foul as today...

the blocking comes into play when the 2nd waves of orthon is out. i go into shield block mode so i get hit to less (even when i still get hit on a 20) so i need less heals. this way i need less attention so the clerics can focus on the orthon fight

point is not whether you have use for the item or not but rather there will always be someone who feels that their need for the item is greater than yours. to me its very simple. respect that your loot is your loot, my loot is my loot.if someone gets something i dun need, i leave the party immediately. if there is something i need, i will wait for the person to call for roll or whatever. should a player offer loot to others i'll note his/her generosity. if he/she decides to keep it, i respect that decision as well

that said, i will stand up against unfair practices, eg rolling on behalf of another to get an extra advantage, offering to trade for loot but doesnt complete it, subject players to unfair raid practices esp with respect to guild raids who take in pugs, etc

sure, i can understand where the OP is coming from. what i disagree is the need for the OP to come to the forums and start a witch hunt. you or anyone else can disagree but i bet that the name was already sent out to his guildies and friends before he posted this thread. this is not about peer pressure. this is plain bullying

everyone has a part to play in this community. how do i do it? as far as possible, the officers in my guild will try to take a newbie to his 1st ddo raid where raid loot drop. the first is to ensure that the newbie has a chance to step up into raid material and if there is a boo boo, the rest will be able to adequate cover his back. the second reason is that we can also take this opportunity to educate them on what we consider acceptable raid practices or good looting etiquette

i quote an example where leviks defender drops for our new guildie cleric. he was considering taking a level of fighter just so he could use it. we told him the pros and cons of using the shield and allowed him to make an informed choice whether to loot it. in the end he let it up for roll

i digress here but u know what i mean. there are better alternatives than a witch hunt

[Enochroot]

Levik's defender is a fantastic cleric shield (and by that I mean it's a fantastic shield for anyone that blocks). Clerics tend to be blocking when they're shielding anyway, right? Why the hell do you need tower proficiency for that? My cleric wouldn't use anything else, and I use it a lot. I'd rather my cleric be intimming and shield blocking while fighters killed rather than fighters intimming and my cleric trying to kill. Makes much more sense.


You led your guildie astray, imo.

[Dozen_Black_Roses]

Yup. And from the attitudes expressed by those here, its not at all unreasonable to think that the 11 others conspired to NOT offer a fair trade - they assumed that if no one offered a reasonable bid, then the guy would be left with no other choice than to put it up for a roll, and they would get something for nothing. They tried to play a hardball negotiating tactic, and then came here to whine when their tactic failed.

I was in said raid, when the wizard asked the group if there were any offers, I heard one person ask what he wanted. I don't know what happened in pm's, I will assume that's where most things took place. I took my leave at that point, as (1) It didnt even occur to me to buy raid loot as that's not my playstyle (I can see a trade but not right out buying), (2) assuming it is eventually put up for roll, I won't roll against someone who's primary attribute is that tome stat (there were 2 sorcs in the group who asked if it was up for roll, and there were a bunch of folks that were rogues/rogue splashes). To eat a tome just for spite, is not right in my moral playbook, no matter how you look at it. He did not qualify his statements, and say hey I could use this but if someone offers me something good, Ill give it to them. He asked straight out, "any offers?". That's all.

That being said, if that's how your thought patterns go, that a pug conspired against this wizard to not buy his raid loot and then created this monster of a thread, well that surely helps me to understand the "logic" of your posts. Another person many of us would like to avoid running with. And of course, ~mock shock~ no toons listed in your sig.

Most of us play here as part of a community, and our play style, including what we do with our loot reflects that. Now my guild has loot rules if it is a guild run, but when I pug (which is a good portion of the time), I definitely follow a need before greed philosophy.

[Aranticus]

Levik's defender is a fantastic cleric shield (and by that I mean it's a fantastic shield for anyone that blocks). Clerics tend to be blocking when they're shielding anyway, right? Why the hell do you need tower proficiency for that? My cleric wouldn't use anything else, and I use it a lot. I'd rather my cleric be intimming and shield blocking while fighters killed rather than fighters intimming and my cleric trying to kill. Makes much more sense.


You led your guildie astray, imo.

and lorriks does exactly the same thing

[Aranticus]

He asked straight out, "any offers?". That's all.

it dropped for a wiz who stated he didnt need it

which seems different from what is stated in the OP...

[Fenrisulven6]

(1) It didnt even occur to me to buy raid loot as that's not my playstyle (I can see a trade but not right out buying)

Well then, you're confused about basic economics. Money is traded instead of items because its more flexible. You wouldn't trade an hour of IT advice for your groceries, you'd use money instead. Claiming that you would trade items but not plat is contradictory.

(2) He did not qualify his statements, and say hey I could use this but if someone offers me something good, Ill give it to them. He asked straight out, "any offers?". That's all.

And that should be enough. You should be grateful that he offered it to the group in the first place. Instead, you're complaining that he didn't give it away for free.

That being said, if that's how your thought patterns go, that a pug conspired against this wizard to not buy his raid loot and then created this monster of a thread, well that surely helps me to understand the "logic" of your posts.

But it is logical. As others have stated in this very thread, no one made a legit offer for the tome because they had an expectation he should give it away via a roll.

Another person many of us would like to avoid running with.

Why? Because I'm not going to go along with a mob of parasites who think they can tell some other player to fork over what he pulls? Thats a moronic position. Even more so when you consider I've given away +5 Mith Full Plate and a rr Para longbow to complete strangers just in the last month.

And of course, ~mock shock~ no toons listed in your sig.

And of course, ~mock shock~ no personal info listed in your sig. More hypocrisy.

I definitely follow a need before greed philosophy.

No, you don't. YOU choose what you don't need and what to give away. Thats entirely different than this instance, where OTHERS would make that decision for you. Again, if the devs went into your inventory and decided what gear they thought you really needed, and gave the rest away, without your permission, you'd be whining about that instead.

[Enochroot]

and lorriks does exactly the same thing

It doesn't heal you.

[Dozen_Black_Roses]

Well then, you're confused about basic economics. Money is traded instead of items because its more flexible. You wouldn't trade an hour of IT advice for your groceries, you'd use money instead. Claiming that you would trade items but not plat is contradictory.

No I am not confused or being contradictary, I didnt clarify enough, so let me do that now. I meant like a trade right there and then which ocurred in a different reaver last nite. One person got the dreamsplitter, another the amulet, they made a trade right then and there, rather than putting it up for roll. Or maybe one person gets a +3 tome, and another a +2, it is infrequent but I have seen both drop in the chests in the same raid, in the reaver and the hound several times.

And that should be enough. You should be grateful that he offered it to the group in the first place. Instead, you're complaining that he didn't give it away for free.

I am complaining that he looted it for spite, like I said I left the group, I wasnt going to offer anything or roll on it if it was put up for roll, as there were more needier players than I was on that toon in the raid in question.

But it is logical. As others have stated in this very thread, no one made a legit offer for the tome because they had an expectation he should give it away via a roll.

You were not there, you don't know what offers were made or not. For that matter I dont know either, as I left shortly after, and neither of us have any way of knowing what pm's he received. He might have received many legitamate offers, but he was just a greedy sob, or maybe just liked to mess with folks. What irked me was not that he asked for offers, while I don't agree with it, it happens often enough, what was bothersome was the looting it for spite.

Why? Because I'm not going to go along with a mob of parasites who think they can tell some other player to fork over what he pulls? Thats a moronic position. Even more so when you consider I've given away +5 Mith Full Plate and a rr Para longbow to complete strangers just in the last month.

Yes the world around you is a mob of parasites, while you are so generous with mod5 loot. Don't assume that because I haven't listed all the loot I have given away, or new folks I have mentored along the way, that I or anyone else that has posted here is not generous.

And of course, ~mock shock~ no personal info listed in your sig. More hypocrisy.

No one in this day and age, who has any brain cells is going to post personal real life information on a forum website. This is a game and we keep things in game, my toons are listed in my signature, I do not hide behind a forum name.

No, you don't. YOU choose what you don't need and what to give away. Thats entirely different than this instance, where OTHERS would make that decision for you. Again, if the devs went into your inventory and decided what gear they thought you really needed, and gave the rest away, without your permission, you'd be whining about that instead.

No, this is a raid, once the person in question determines whether they need the item, then they make a choice what to do with it. Yes, they can do whatever they want with it, just as I can choose to not want to run future raids with someone who acts selfishly or is an ******. This is a community, you are either a productive part of it, or your not. That is why this game has continuted to go on, due to the dedicated community that we have.

[Aranticus]

It doesn't heal you.

how many clerics intimidate?

[Enochroot]

how many clerics intimidate?

all of the good ones.


And there's other ways to get aggro, I can help:

1) body aggro - be the first to pull - sonic guard will help you hold aggro here - ie. vod orthons
2) BB
3) searing light
4) letting everyone else die


*** edit: I'm assuming soloing is somewhere on that list, maybe 1 or 4 ***

[Aranticus]

all of the good ones.


And there's other ways to get aggro, I can help:

1) body aggro - be the first to pull - sonic guard will help you hold aggro here - ie. vod orthons
2) BB
3) searing light
4) letting everyone else die


*** edit: I'm assuming soloing is somewhere on that list, maybe 1 or 4 ***

no doubt if you play your cleric this way, you will need leviks defender but my guildie cleric doesnt. and this is where a lot of people fail to understand. someone on a hound run with you when you took the defender (just stating a senario) would have thought that you are a greedy selfish sob who doesnt understand what community raiding is without even knowing how you actually run your cleric. you are also falling in the same trap that all clerics must play like you do

what we did with the guildie was to lay out what each loot does (lorriks dropped for a guildie tank) and then allowed him to do make his own decision. no advice was given. this is about empowerment. a lot of people dun do this, instead preferring to impress on others what they think

[Fenrisulven6]

No one in this day and age, who has any brain cells is going to post personal real life information on a forum website. This is a game and we keep things in game, my toons are listed in my signature, I do not hide behind a forum name.

No, you are hiding. You want toon names so you can punish people in game, for what they say on the forums. You are taking forum disputes outside the forums and into the game.

But you think taking forum disputes outside the forums and into RL is somehow different. Its hypocrisy. You can't browbeat people for "hiding" while you yourself prefer to "hide".

Yes, they can do whatever they want with it, just as I can choose to not want to run future raids with someone who acts selfishly or is an ******. This is a community, you are either a productive part of it, or your not.

Blacklisting someone for not giving away their +3 tome is not productive. He is free to do whatever he wants with his raid loot. You are free to blacklist him. And the rest of us are free to blacklist you for being so petty.

[Enochroot]

no doubt if you play your cleric this way, you will need leviks defender but my guildie cleric doesnt. and this is where a lot of people fail to understand. someone on a hound run with you when you took the defender (just stating a senario) would have thought that you are a greedy selfish sob who doesnt understand what community raiding is without even knowing how you actually run your cleric. you are also falling in the same trap that all clerics must play like you do

what we did with the guildie was to lay out what each loot does (lorriks dropped for a guildie tank) and then allowed him to do make his own decision. no advice was given. this is about empowerment. a lot of people dun do this, instead preferring to impress on others what they think

Aight, it sounded like you convinced him not to take it BECAUSE he shouldn't take the fighter level for tower shield prof.


Anyway, clearly just disagreeing for forum flame fest mod9 ... but interestingly, side note, I've never really gotten any grief about anything I've taken in raids, including that shield, or the vision goggles I rolled for AND won AND was actually passed on my 14/2 dex cleric/monk. Maybe people just squelch me or talk bad behind my back, who knows. That happens a lot in ddo, darned passive aggressive geeks.